Speaking of recurring memberships...

I came across one of the most appalling cancellation policies I've ever run into, from none other than gay.com.

I had a gay.com annual membership which came up for renewal and I decided to cancel prior to renewal. After going through a bunch of pages and procedures designed to make it as difficult as possible to cancel, the very end of the process says "You have to call our office at (some not-tollfree number) to cancel."

So you call the number and... surprise!... it's open 9-5 M-F. But you can leave a message. So I leave a message... and then call back a few days later to make sure they've processed it. Turns out, since they didn't *receive* the message until after the cancellation date (message left on Friday, they answered on Monday, cancellation date was Sunday or something), they charged a month "prorate" at $20, and refunded the difference.

At the time I didn't feel like arguing it, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a scam to increase renewals. I'm surprised that their merchant bankcard provider allows that, as I know our provider required a reasonable and easy cancellation/refund policy.

I probably won't charge it back, but it *did* leave a really bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps getting the $20 is worth more to gay.com than getting my future re-join dollars.

Hi!

Charge it back!!!

I had a `free' trial for 14 days with gay.com and then decided I wasn't using it enough so tried to cancel online.

I was then told I had to call a `toll free' number. In the welcome email it said I could email `cancel@` to cancel but when I did that I got an automated email saying `We are unable to process email requests personally'.

I am in Australia and US Toll-Free numbers are not toll free for me and if they aren't 1-800 I can't call them anyway (ie: 888/876).

Once I finally got someone who would `process email requests personally' they did it and I wasn't charged.

But the idea of making you phone to cancel (when they make no mention of this when you sign up) is ludicrous.

Mind you now they have Gay.Com Premium for FREE here in Australia and you don't even have to give your card #. (It's a country specific offer I think and not available on all gay.com sites).

Ernie

i remember a company who used to have requirements like that to cancel - in 1996. the ftc shut those guys down hard finally.

this is the kind of thing that hurts our industry AND make less and less people online trust their credit cards to any online business. and that's a shame. no one should have to fucking phone to cancel something they didn't have to phone to join.

boo hiss to gay.com for such practices!

I would email them threatening to charge it back and if they don't refund your transaction within 5 business days, then follow through on it. Stupid policies like this deserve to be punished.

cheers,
Luke

I hate Gay.com. On their affiliate pages they have the nerve to not accept "adult' traffic like it's the scourge of the universe, then turn around and advertise adult sites in the chat rooms. How's that for hypocrisy.

"This includes Commission Junction's commitment to keep the network free from the promotion of adult content, hate crimes, or illegal activity."

Well that's pretty shady.

We went thru that a couple of years ago when we cancelled our membership with them...I see nothing has changed...they do SUCK!

This type of cancellation policy is the norm for mainstream subscription programs. A few months back I got suckered into deal involving a 42" Plasma TV (For about $300-400 of various subscriptions/items I finally did earn the Plasma valued at $2500 retail... unbelievable, I know, but that's another story).

I had to join things like Blockbuster Online, Napster, Stamps.com, Columbia House, Disney, Vonnage, etc. And virtually everyone of them has some absolutely fucked up cancellation policy and it's buried so deep in their sites that the Average-Joe would never find them.

And you can just about forget cancelling online... the typical policy is to call between 9am and 5pm and some of them don't even have toll-free numbers, lol. And once you finally get through to a person... OH MY GOD, you have to plead and beg to about 6 different people until they let you cancel! One line of mine that came in VERY handy was... "Cancel me or I WILL chargeback!" Worked every time. ;)

On the other hand, you have companies like Vonnage that roll over and play dead when you try to cancel. They don't put up any struggle and you don't even have to return the voice modem/router.

welcome to the mainstream world my friend

ever try to cancel AOL? Good luck.
I had free AOL for 7 months or so after several attempts to cancel. The final try they kept me on the phone for 50 minutes and made me listen to all kinds of marketing bullshit and telling me how great AOL was and what they offered.


I signed up for Real Gold Pass to get CNN and BBC, but Real Player is such a piece of shit I decided to cancel on day 3.

Ha, nice try on my side. After filling a form out suddenly it tells me to call a 1-800 number. When I did they put the pressure trick on me to stay and after about 5 minutes gave in and canceled my membership.

And these are the same guys that pay 1% comissions to their affiliates

It's all gleefully ironic, really. That being "mainstream" qualifies you to have the leeway to really do some fucked up shit. lol. But since we're adult, regardless of what our intentions are the assumption is that we'll try something sneaky.

Now, no doubt if they could get away with it, there are many adult webmasters who would pull some fucked up shit if their processing setup allowed them to. And there are those who do just that, because they use a processing setup that enables them to.

This all reminds me of my own subscription horror story involving a retailer of law enforcement products. With another entirely nonadult-related job and consulting gig I've been doing, I occasionally had to order some pretty high tech monitoring equipment, law enforcement supply stuff, and what not. I tried this one company to order the materials just one time. And was sure to read through their online order terms to be confident I'd not end up on any mailing lists or bullshit like that. And thankfully, ordering the stuff didn't put me on any of their mailing lists.

However... a short while after I received my order I started to get catalogs in the mail from them. I ran through every bit of paperwork and terms and conditions all over their website and order form and my receipts and everything else to figure out just how that came to be. Lo and behold, hidden in the box my items arrived in when they were delivered was a little piece of paper with some very tiny print on it that said in accepting the materials I ordered, I agreed to be placed on their mailing list. And that I'd have to mail a letter back to them (snail mail) to be removed.

WTF?!

Further still, I started getting other catalogs in the mail from other like-oriented companies. Firearms supply companies, gun and ammo magazines, investigative service suppliers and equipment companies. All kinds of shit.

Well I called up the original company pissed to hell, telling them that of all types of companies, a law enforcement and high-priced security equipment retailer should be very discriminating with their customers' information. The very nature of their clientele should dictate discretion, yet here they were pullin' sneaky shit and also selling my info to everyone out there. I ended up on the National Rifle Association mailing list and everything.

It took me about 6 months to finally cease getting anything related to that original order, but by the end of the experience I was amazingly bitter and angry. What a nightmare.

Alas, that's just the kinda crap some people pull.

And back to the gay.com bit... as huskyhunks mentioned, it's all the more reason to look upon them disfavorably in that they consider themselves to be above and better than working with adult companies (cancelling your affiliate account if they arbitrarily deem you to be an adult company and running off with any moneys owed), yet eagerly advertise adult companies within their chat area.

Oh and another thing...

This thread:

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=13940

In which I was asking about clean-uninstall utilities... it so happens that the piece of software I'm referring to and attempting to delete (and having a hell of a time doing so because the software is practically un-delete-able and such a flawed piece of garbage it's virtually impossible to remove from your computer) is some gay.com software.

Their "broadcaster", to be more specific.

I'd downloaded and installed it to check out how it worked and what kind of features it had and have since been unable to remove it. It's own "uninstall" utility is useless.

So don't ever install that piece of shit. I'm pretty computer savvy so will eventually get rid of it, but Joe Shmoe who doesn't know any better will end up with it on their machine for the rest of its life.

don't forget - it's not just porn that's considered "high risk" on the web - it's sales on the internet.

and things like this make me wonder - i know a lot of consumers gleefully charge back and claim their cards were stolen 'cause they feel like a web purchase shouldn't count, but it seems to me merchants are another BIG problem. they are helping create an adversarial feeling between consumer and merchant that is the opposite of what i think would be most effective for long-term business.

Here's something new. Has anyone ever tried advertising the fact it is easy to cancel on their sites on the 'join' page? I have a feeling this would actually increase sales because people would be more willing to sign up knowing there is a pressure free cancellation policy.

I think I will test this theory out on our sites and see if I notice any difference in sign-ups. With Paycom it is very easy for them to cancel, why not advertise this fact?

Cheers,
D.

yes, i've seen it on join pages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dannyz

Here's something new. Has anyone ever tried advertising the fact it is easy to cancel on their sites on the 'join' page? I have a feeling this would actually increase sales because people would be more willing to sign up knowing there is a pressure free cancellation policy.

I think I will test this theory out on our sites and see if I notice any difference in sign-ups. With Paycom it is very easy for them to cancel, why not advertise this fact?

Cheers,
D.

---

Wow I guess I shouldn't be surprised a big company is doing that but I am. That is just ridiculous the only way to cancel is to call a number. I really think there should be more strict rules for companies that process credit cards. I see more and more bullshit and time goes by. I would charge it back for sure, just think how many people they are screwing.

Mark

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jIgG

welcome to the mainstream world my friend

ever try to cancel AOL? Good luck.
I had free AOL for 7 months or so after several attempts to cancel. The final try they kept me on the phone for 50 minutes and made me listen to all kinds of marketing bullshit and telling me how great AOL was and what they offered.


I signed up for Real Gold Pass to get CNN and BBC, but Real Player is such a piece of shit I decided to cancel on day 3.

Ha, nice try on my side. After filling a form out suddenly it tells me to call a 1-800 number. When I did they put the pressure trick on me to stay and after about 5 minutes gave in and canceled my membership.

And these are the same guys that pay 1% comissions to their affiliates

---

I hate aol with a passion. They are the most wasteful and worthless company on earth. I hope someday their business dies. Even though I was a customer for over 7 years, I still got their damn cd's in the mail, I am not talking a few either. Now they are packaging their cd's in even more wasteful containers. A california company also collected over a million cd's and scratched each one and made it useless and they sent them all back to aol. I could go on and on but I will stop there, lol.

Mark

Years ago, I had an msn dialup account so that when i go on a trip - i can have internet access. since most places now offer high speed access paying 21.95 a month to use a few times a year wasn't needed.

so i called and cancelled. the next month my credit card expired.

apparently they never processed by cancellation and for 4 months kept submitting payment. the first one went thru but then since my card expired the next 3 months they sent emails to what i thought was defunct msn email addres stating the payment was processed. granted i never read that email when i actually had the account. So I never new they were still trying to bill me. Then a year later I get a letter from their collections agency.

Low and behold msn wanted me to pay them like $65 for the 3 months that they tried to charge me for. they were extremely indignet stating that i never called them to cancel and even though they weren't able to charge my card...they kept the internet access active and i need to pay for it.

My first thought was my credit rating is too important to screw up for just $65. Then I thought about and decided this nothing more than extrosion. I contacted my attorney general's office and filed a complaint. About a month later microsoft said they received a letter from the PA attorney general....and decided to no longer persue the $65 as a 'courtesy' to me.

The nerve these companies have!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djdez

Years ago, I had an msn dialup account so that when i go on a trip - i can have internet access. since most places now offer high speed access paying 21.95 a month to use a few times a year wasn't needed.

so i called and cancelled. the next month my credit card expired.

apparently they never processed by cancellation and for 4 months kept submitting payment. the first one went thru but then since my card expired the next 3 months they sent emails to what i thought was defunct msn email addres stating the payment was processed. granted i never read that email when i actually had the account. So I never new they were still trying to bill me. Then a year later I get a letter from their collections agency.

Low and behold msn wanted me to pay them like $65 for the 3 months that they tried to charge me for. they were extremely indignet stating that i never called them to cancel and even though they weren't able to charge my card...they kept the internet access active and i need to pay for it.

My first thought was my credit rating is too important to screw up for just $65. Then I thought about and decided this nothing more than extrosion. I contacted my attorney general's office and filed a complaint. About a month later microsoft said they received a letter from the PA attorney general....and decided to no longer persue the $65 as a 'courtesy' to me.

The nerve these companies have!!!

---

Something very similar happened to me years back with Prodigy! I changed internet providers but absent-mindedly left my Prodigy account active. I didn't use it anymore but payments were automatically deducted from my charge card. The card eventually expired and they continued to try to process the payment. 6 months later, they sent a collections letter and demanded payment. I called and told them to fuck off and they could take me to court! The letters stopped and it never showed up on my credit report.

Nextel is also pretty hard to cancel, someone made a site about it http://www.nextelsucks.org/

Hi!

When I lived in the US and had to phone to cancel a service (like Internet / Cable TV etc), they'd of course try and get you to stay and why are you leaving us.

I used to just say I was moving back to Australia and do you offer service there. `Uhmm No, sorry to see you go' was their usual reply.

It's like if the service or product is good then there is probably a good reason I need to cancel.

Ernie