CCBill VISA Processing for Canadians

Hey guys.

I know this topic has been discussed here on GWW a number of times, but are there any new solutions? Can Canadian webmasters now get CCBill Visa processing? Or is it still only limited to US and EU webmasters?

I have close relatives in the US. Can i somehow use them to get VISA set up with CCBill? I know that I could set up Visa with Verotel, but that’s my last option.

Does anyone know of a way to get past this? As in ANY way...whatever it may be...as long as it's legal. Would setting up a US or a EU corporation allow me to do this? You can pvt me if you’d like.

Thanks in advance.

- Allan

As far as i know, there really arent any billing options available to Canadian adult businesses at the moment other than Verotel and, quite frankly, id rather slice my wrist open with a rusty spoon than use them for anything.

Your best option, IMHO, would be to get either a US or an EU business setup id guess, a US corporate presence would be the easiest to get setup with you being Canadian.

Thats just my take on it all though im sure some of our other community members will be able to offer you some more advice :)

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

As far as i know, there really arent any billing options available to Canadian adult businesses at the moment other than Verotel and, quite frankly, id rather slice my wrist open with a rusty spoon than use them for anything.

Your best option, IMHO, would be to get either a US or an EU business setup id guess, a US corporate presence would be the easiest to get setup with you being Canadian.

Thats just my take on it all though im sure some of our other community members will be able to offer you some more advice :)

Regards,

Lee

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Thanks for the prompt response, Lee.

Yeah, as far as i know, you can get a VISA account with CCBill if you have a US corporation (easy to do). But the problem with that is, because of the fact that you're not living in the US, you'll hvae to appoint a Principal to act on your behalf. This person would have full access to your entire account. I've heard that some lawyers are willing to do this, but i'm not sure if i'd trust my own mom with this position, let alone a lawyer i hardly know :boo:

And isn't setting up in the US suicide with all the 2257 regulations? If i have the option to set up a company in the EU, wouldn't that be a much better choice?

What are all you Canadian webmasters doing?

-allan

a canadian friend of mine set up a u.s. corporation - an LLC - through incorporate.com. if you go with a nevada corporation, you don't need a principal, no meetings and they supply the u.s. contact and address for you as part of their service. i know a lot of people who have done a nevada LLC through them and so far, it's all been smooth sailing.

they have live help during the day. why not ask them for details? also you can ask basement on this board for details on how he did it.

as far as 2257, who knows? later it could be a problem - or not. if you aren't willing to do a u.s. LLC, your options are either verotel or to incorporate in europe and go with ccbill eu. or to go with one of the less well-established processors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

..., quite frankly, id rather slice my wrist open with a rusty spoon than use them for anything.

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Hey Lee... Just curious: why are you put off by Verotel?

I've started a discussion on this topic before (as a Canadian webmaster) and Verotel didn't seem bad then. Has something changed (yikes)?

Ultimately, I decided to setup with Verotel. It took some time setting up (longer than expected), but so far, I have not experienced any problems. Touch wood, I don't have any complaints about Verotel.

Of course, CCBill had been my first choice, but what to do?

Hey Patti, I looked into the whole Nevada thing. According to CCBill, I still needed a princple (irrespective of the Nevada, LLC) so I did encounter that problem still. I didn't want to hand over full control of my account to a perfect stranger...

Am I missing something here that your Canadian freinds have done that I overlooked?

BrianDN

Brian,

I just dont like the type of sites they process for, pseudo CP sites, rape sites, etc. That doesnt exactly instill a whole load of confidence in them as a processor id trust my business with.

Regards,

Lee

For example, here is a story from December about how they were processing for a CP site..

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/n...-4903259c.html

Here's a GFY link about the processing for beasty sites..

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ht=hans+burger

There was a thread on GWW a few months back about them processing for pseudo rape sites to (from what Squirt said after joining the site it was actual rape, sorry to mention you in this Squirt).

Regards,

Lee

verotel ticket club is not what i'd want to process with unless i had no choice. their support has been very bad for a lot of people i know, although eventually if you're persistant, they do get the questions answered.

BrianDN - basement is sick and off to bed. he said he'd stop by this thread later. in the meantime, why not ask the live help on incorporate.com your questions? i believe basement is his own principal, but he'll tell us when he wakes up.

Thanks Patti...

Yeah, I still need a secondary processor so I'll look into that further. I'm anxious to speak with basement! I guess we'll find out soon enough...

BrianDN

I am Canadian with a Nevada LLC. I am with epoch not ccbill. I have never heard of requirement to have a priniciple. I have a resident agent in Nevada that costs me $200 a year through the company corporation.

Thanks for the info, Lee...

Basement, I'm going to look into this further. Maybe Epoch doesn't have that same requirement as CCBILL.

But I do remember CCBill stating very clearly to me that the main person on account (the principle) must be a resident of the US, with a valid address and IDs, etc. So, this led me to resort to using something like companiesinc.com and having them act as my 'resident agent' to satisfy CCBill's (actually, more accurately, VISA USA's) principle requirements for a true US resident. So, I could have paid that $200 yearly fee, but I just did not trust somebody whom I didn't know to have access to my account.

Does your resident agent have full access to your account at epoch? As in, are they listed as the primary person (or even at all) on your account with Epoch?

How long ago did you setup your account?

Thanks basement, I'll find out more! :D

BrianDN

BrianDN - your corporation is your u.s. principal. the point of getting a u.s. corporation is that the corporation IS a u.s. business entity - it's like the person that visa will do business with.

Hey Patti... Yes, you're right. And, that was no problem (getting a corporation as an ID). But CCBill (or, VISA I should say) wanted two pieces of ID. So, while one could originate from a US corporation, the other ID still had to come from an authentic US resident (somebody who could prove they actually lived in the US; say with a Driver's License), hence the need for a principle or resident agent like companies inc. Do you see what I mean?

There was no getting around this for them.

VISA USA has basically imposed these demands in order to prevent anyone except US residents to have the accounts setup with companies like CCBillUS. The same story applies with CCBillEU. I setup a corporation in the EU, I even had a a friend of mine who agreed to act as principle (he had a passport form a European Country), but because he lives in Canada he is technically not a resident of his country of citzenship, so they wouldn't let me use him as a principle. So, I was back to square one at that point (having to use the anonymous resident agent as my principle). Finally I just gave up and went with Verotel...


Brian

Patti, I pulled this up from http://manual.ccbill.com/ (under the Webmaster Signup Page).

I've highlighted their requirement.

Basically, what i was told (where they say the principle must have an address in the same region) is that the principle must have a US address (it can by anywhere in the US) or an EU address (it can be in any country belonging to the EU). Otherwise, I need to appoint somebody (like a resident agent at companiesinc.com for instance) to act on my behalf. And, as I found out, that person gets listed as the primary on the accout, while I'm listed as something secondary (like the technical) and so that person would full control and authority over what happens to that account, including changing passwords, where checks, go, etc.

well, doesn't that suck balls!

it does make sense that a u.s. business entity should have a u.s. address, but as far as making someone else the owner of your account - AND legally responsible if you fuck up :wtf:

Tell me about it (yikes!)

But, I think that the existing Canadians that do have a CCBill setup do so because they were able to get in on it before VISA USA decided to unroll their irritating regulations!!!

So, I'm wondering when basement signed up with Epoch because who the actual ISPS is a mute point according to what I've gathered over the last little while when I asked around. Each and every ISPS still has to comply with VISA USA's regs... Whether it is CCBill or Epoch or any other that in the US region.

GPallan,

As far as I know things haven't changed as the information you're getting in this thread is correct. If they had changed, I might be running a paysite right now.

I think you're smarter to try and align yourself with Europe. Regardless of what happens with 2257, it'll be difficult for the U.S. to enforce their legislation one way or another in foreign countries. So as long as you do the stuff on your website that you're supposed to do, that'll probably be the end of it. The DOJ won't be coming to visit you in Vancouver or Toronto or Montreal and asking for ID. Billing companies may require you to have the links and custodian of the records information on your site.

I did get an e-mail within the last 4-6 months from someone at ibill about using their GKard. When I questioned the residency issue, I was told they didn't care where I lived. Nice to hear, but it sounded sketchy to me since every one else does.

gaystoryman was telling me about another outfit Virtual Card or VirtuaCard or something along those lines that would process for Canadians. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to short out the name. But I think it's a set up where the surfer has to fill an Virtual Card account and then money for your membership is deducted from the VC account. So it's not ideal.

cheers,
Michael

I agree with Michael, avoid the USA and setup in EU, its totally easy to setup and will take maybe 2 or 3 weeks and then once you have a company registration you can setup with ccbilleu or epocheu without any problems. You will not only avoid the stupidity that is going on with USA politics but also the $750 visa rego fee :D

cheers,
Luke

I like Verotel. I've used them for years and I'm sticking with them. I've had opportunities to jump ship for free and change processors, but I don't need to do that. I get paid on time, every week. I'm an affiliate that gets paid through ccbill and epoch and I don't see a big difference between the companies.

I don't really know who verotel processes for. I expect them to be more lenient towards certain content because the Netherlands is just like that. I would like to move over to ccbill one day because it does have a better structure for affiliate programs, the stats are more comprehensive and the support is always around. I'd give them the edge because they are active on the boards and very attentive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

I agree with Michael, avoid the USA and setup in EU, its totally easy to setup and will take maybe 2 or 3 weeks and then once you have a company registration you can setup with ccbilleu or epocheu without any problems. You will not only avoid the stupidity that is going on with USA politics but also the $750 visa rego fee :D

cheers,
Luke

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but where to incorporate in europe?

i know that gibraltar used to be good for tax reasons but i understand that's changing in the near future.

so where to incorporate in europe? what about the tax situation there? and does ccbilleu/VISAEU have the same requirements for a 'physical person' to be on site so to speak?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

well, doesn't that suck balls!

it does make sense that a u.s. business entity should have a u.s. address, but as far as making someone else the owner of your account - AND legally responsible if you fuck up :wtf:

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yeah, that's my dilemma exactly. my immediate family members live in the US, but i don't know if i'd want them as my principal mainly for their own safety. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if something went wrong with my site legally (ie 2257) and have it screw them over, as I’m sure that the principal would be held accountable

-allan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

gaystoryman was telling me about another outfit Virtual Card or VirtuaCard or something along those lines that would process for Canadians. I'm sure he'll be along shortly to short out the name. But I think it's a set up where the surfer has to fill an Virtual Card account and then money for your membership is deducted from the VC account. So it's not ideal.

cheers,
Michael

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i think you're talking about http://www.myvirtualcard.com. They are out of Montreal and settle in USD or Euro your choice. Accepting Visa and Mastercard. Affiliate management, member management, and all that. And there are no setup fees. Just a percentage, like all the others take. And apparently the surfer doesn't ahve to buy a card (that's only one of their programs), they can actually use their MC or Visa.

Here's a thread on My Virtual Card at GFY http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...=myvirtualcard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

I agree with Michael, avoid the USA and setup in EU, its totally easy to setup and will take maybe 2 or 3 weeks and then once you have a company registration you can setup with ccbilleu or epocheu without any problems. You will not only avoid the stupidity that is going on with USA politics but also the $750 visa rego fee :D

cheers,
Luke

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i think that the requirements are the same for VisaEU and VisaUSA, they both need a physical person living in either the EU or the US to act as your principal. As of now, there doesn't seem to be any way of getting around that.

I think this is what "rhys" below was wondering too

i have 2 issues with myvirtualcard.

1. they turned off all their processing for all their clients for a couple days recently without telling anyone. the join forms simply didn't work. to me, this is incredible - that not ONE single person processing with them could get a single sale for days.

2. they process for at least 1 little girl site for sure - i'm talking way under 16.

actually make that 3 issues because myvirtualcard has a lot less flexibility in their linking. having multiple tours or links to fhg's isn't an option, although they might tell you it is. i have a buddy who processed with them and most of the features they thought they could figure out when he first asked they neither understood nor were they able to make them work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

once you have a company registration you can setup with ccbilleu or epocheu without any problems.

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Luke... Just wanted to say further to this (and, Rhys was touching on this), yes, you're right. The corporation provides ONE form of ID. CCBillEU still needs a SECOND, which must come from a real person who physically lives an EU country (this person can be living in any country that's a part of the EU and that person does not have to be living in the same EU Country where they are incorporated; it's just that both the person and the company both must be in the EU Region).

So, this presents a few problems for somebody like me who lives in Canada:

- Which person can I appoint in the EU to act as my principle, whom I can trust, if I don't know a single person who actually lives in the EU (I do have a friend with an EU passport, but he's a Canadian resident)?

- If there's no person I can appoint (which is most likely the case for many Canadians/Non-EU/Non-US residents), I'm left with one more option: convicing an organization that incorporates companies to utilize their resident agent service to satisfy CCBill's/VISAEU's resident principle requirements.

Having said all of this, Verotel was able to process for me because of their method of setting up webmasters:

When I setup with Verotel, they actually went through a lengthy process (the Pro Account Setup) which requried me to technically have a 'branch office' of my existing EU corporation in the Netherlands (where they're located). They handled all the necessary paperwork. I still needed the EU corporation, but then they went to make a Netherlands branch location as I understand it.

I believe this is what enables them to get around this issue, which works great in the end. I don't understand why CCBillEU is not doing the same thing?

BrianDN

I just pulled up the relevant link for CCBillEU:

http://businesscenter.ccbilleu.com/proofeu.html

It states what I've explianed above.


BrianDN

The principle part is a little more grey and this is why I thought I'd be okay at first.

It says, a passport would be valid as a SECOND ID for those who've got a business in the EU region. So, I got my friend to be my principle with his EU passport. But, then CCBillEU turned around and said no because he hasn't been living in the EU.

So, they're assuming that the principle lives in the EU.

This is madness :whip: because I know CCBillEU could get around this somehow. Verotel does so why can't they?

BrianDN

why not talk to the good folks at epochsystems.com ? they set basement up even though he was a canadian citizen who incorporated in nevada...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhys

but where to incorporate in europe?

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Rhys, here are all the countries where you could incorporate in the EU, according to CCBillEU:

http://businesscenter.ccbilleu.com/visaeu-region.php

But, if you were to get setup with them, or Verotel, you could actually setup a corporation for the purpose of getting your account setup. However, checks don't have to be made payable to that corporation; they can be made payable to any company/person of your choice. So, you could register another company, one that's located in a country that you can identify as place that offers good tax benefits and have your payments going to that company. For your first company (a shell basically), you'd file tax returns yearly with zero income as that company will not see any revenues.

Why not do this:

1. Setup a UK corporation (it's cheap) and use that more or less as a shell. It makes no profits throughout the year and you simply file tax returns with no income.

2. Find a country that works for you. Gibralter seems good to me, but I'm not up to par with recent changes.

3. Have your processor make your payments/checks payable to your company where ever you set that up.

Two corporations would give you all the flexiblity I think you're after. Try these guys (they'll do a UK limited company for only 90 Euros!). And, they're good:

http://www.wsr-corporation.com/en/uk.html

And, for your research into good offshore jurisdictions (for tax benefits), see their page:

http://www.wsr-corporation.com/en/offshore.html


Hope this helps!

BrianDN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

why not talk to the good folks at epochsystems.com ? they set basement up even though he was a canadian citizen who incorporated in nevada...

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Yeah, ok... I'll give them a shout!

Thanks Patti :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDN

The principle part is a little more grey and this is why I thought I'd be okay at first.

It says, a passport would be valid as a SECOND ID for those who've got a business in the EU region. So, I got my friend to be my principle with his EU passport. But, then CCBillEU turned around and said no because he hasn't been living in the EU.

So, they're assuming that the principle lives in the EU.

This is madness :whip: because I know CCBillEU could get around this somehow. Verotel does so why can't they?

BrianDN

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Hey thanks Brian. A lot of useful info.

I'm going to contact the guys at CCBill US and EU and get some clarification on this. There must be a way to get around this whole thing. I've been talking to other Canadian webmasters who've set up with CCBill and from what they're telling me, it's was as simple as setting up a Nevada corporation. ??? I don’t know…I guess I’ll see

rhys, setting up an EU company is not for tax avoidance purposes, it is only to establish a presence in the EU.

BrianDN, you are incorrect with your assessment of the requirements and are making things way too complicated. All you need is an EU company (prove you have your EU presence) and your passport ID (prove who you are), you don't have to prove you are living in the EU.

And yes, once you have an EU presence you can get setup with CCBillEU or EpochEU or even IBillEU if you really want to. As for setting up a nevada company, personally I would stay as far away from the USA as possible.

cheers,
Luke

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

BrianDN, you are incorrect with your assessment of the requirements and are making things way too complicated. All you need is an EU company (prove you have your EU presence) and your passport ID (prove who you are), you don't have to prove you are living in the EU.

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Hey Luke. So are you telling me that i could set up my EU company and simply use my Canadian passport? Is it not necessary for me to have an EU passport?

allan

Chilli Host...

I'm speaking with epochEU right now. Apparently, there is some way around this, so looks like you may be right.

When there's so much back and forth it gets frustrating real fast!

About CCBillEU though, I actually setup the account and I wasn't able to get VISA setup because I had a Canadian passport and residency. This is what they told me... It didn't even matter that my friend, who I wanted to use, had an EU passport. So, not sure what you're talking about Chilli...

I'm gonna look into it again though (with CCBillEU and I'm speaking to EpochEU).

Thanks,

BrianDN