Are You Ready For The Porn Ghetto?

In all probability, there will be a final decision about the creation of .xxx TLD at the ICANN meeting in Wellington. ICM Registry, a private company founded in 2000 specifically to seek approval for the .xxx TLD (top level domain), has meet ICANN’s criteria for creating a TLD, according to an ICANN decision in June. Since then ICANN and ICM Registry have been negotiating the contract that would create a virtual red-light district.
The company’s president and chairman, Stuart Lawley, will attend the meeting in Wellington.

“We look forward to the ICANN board ratifying the contract,” he says. “Once our contract is signed, we can implement plans which we expect would lead to the .xxx TLD being operational around six months later.”

Lawley and his business partners say they have no links, now or in the past, to the porn industry. Lawley, a successful entrepreneur, started Oneview, a UK ISP, in 1999 and cashed out in 2000 before the dotcom bubble burst.

He has told AVN Online, a porn industry news website, that it is no secret that he sees .xxx as an opportunity to make money. He says that “the online adult industry, as one of the largest sectors of e-commerce today, is a clear choice for a dedicated TLD”.

ICM Registry would operate the register of .xxx sites, and sell each domain name for US$60. Resellers will be free to add their mark-up of maybe US$10 to US$15 per name.

Lawley describes the .xxx TLD as a “win-win situation”. It would make it easier for parents, schools and companies to block access to porn on the internet, he says.

“It’s also a ‘win’ for the consenting adult consumers … as they can browse and buy with greater confidence in that the .xxx sites they visit will adhere to the best business practices set out in the .xxx registration agreement,” he says.

This increased consumer confidence is expected to increase revenue and lower credit card charge-backs for the online porn providers, according to Lawley.

A not-for-profit, Canadian organisation, International Foundation for Online Responsibility (IFFOR), will be the policy-making authority for the .xxx TLD, says Lawley. IFFOR will be funded through .xxx domain name registration fees and will have its own board of directors, consisting of representatives from the online porn industry, child-safety community and the free speech community, says ICM Registry’s website.

IFFOR will have the somewhat split role of supporting free expression, creating a safe and protected environment for consumers within the domain, supporting business practises that protects children online and sponsoring anti-child pornography organisations, says the IFFOR website.

Registrants of the .xxx TLD are obliged to follow the rules set by IFFOR, and these will include safeguarding children, deploying accurate meta-tagging and not engaging in spoofing, phishing or fraud, says Lawley.

Liz Butterfield, executive director of the Internet Safety Group, says that because the application for .xxx has gone through ICANN’s rigorous process and has met the threshold for becoming a top level domain, the ISG sees no reason why it shouldn’t proceed.

“However, it is important to be realistic about what this can achieve,” she says.

“If the regulation of .xxx is effective, it may indeed mean that member organisations offer less links to illegal material such as child abuse images or bestiality, practice less inclusion of spyware, malware and diallers in downloads, make less attempts to trap unsuspecting children by having a domain name that is one keystroke off a legitimate children’s site.”

She thinks it unrealistic that .xxx will have much impact reducing the illegal trade in child pornography.

“Whether .xxx will make pornography easier to filter will depend on how many pornographers choose to use .xxx.”

Keith Davidson, executive director of InternetNZ, says that the .xxx application has met the guidelines and should “probably proceed”.

Frank March, senior specialist advisor at the information technology policy group, Ministry of Economic Development, says that the government doesn’t have a view of the .xxx TLD issue. “It is a matter for ICANN to decide,” he says. “The New Zealand government recognises ICANN’s right to make decisions of that sort.”

His personal view is that .xxx could possibly have a small positive effect, depending on the capability of ICM Registry to enforce the code of behaviour it says will be required for .xxx websites.

“It’s not likely that the .xxx TLD will make the current situation any worse,” March says. The worst outcome of .xxx is that it will be completely neutral and have no effect, he says.

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/...F?OpenDocument

Looks like the .XXX TLD is only a short step away from becoming a reality :(

This is going to mean the ghetto-ization of web porn as we know it, especially if the US government gets their way and mandates that all 'adult' material be put on a .xxx tld :(

Regards,

Lee

Segregation just won't work, no matter how or who extolls its supposed virtues. Unless the make it mandatory in every country for every adult site to comply, it is nothing more than one more political ploy to control people's thoughts, and expressions.

I will never register for a XXX TLD.

It certainly will be an interesting story to watch unfold however, specially given that even the Democrats in the USA are pushing for it. :coffee:

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

Segregation just won't work, no matter how or who extolls its supposed virtues. Unless the make it mandatory in every country for every adult site to comply, it is nothing more than one more political ploy to control people's thoughts, and expressions.

I will never register for a XXX TLD.

It certainly will be an interesting story to watch unfold however, specially given that even the Democrats in the USA are pushing for it. :coffee:

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I think that you are correct that segregation won't work especially when you consider the many sitesoutside of the US who won't have to worry about which and won't do it which will place a burden on the sites in the US.

I'm guessing that the US politicians will make sure that this happens. If so, do we have any choice....seems as if we'd have to have a .xxx domain if we are based in the US.

Oh well, just another of the many challenges we face each day.

Bill

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

I will never register for a XXX TLD.

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Never say "never." If law makers legislate it illegal for sponsors and processors to do business with any adult site not on a .XXX domain, then we'll have little choice.

Michael

If/when it happens, I just hope there is a period of time for the owners of the dot coms have first option at the dot xxx domains. If not, its going to be a nightmare of turf wars and squatters and hijackers.

Wouldn't moving all adult sites to .xxx have a major effect on search engine traffic? Everyone would lose all search traffic they get to their current .com domains until they are picked back up. That would pretty much destroy even the major adult sites. Surely these major adult companies aren't going to let all the search traffic they have built up over many years just be wiped out.

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Originally Posted by Northstar

Wouldn't moving all adult sites to .xxx have a major effect on search engine traffic? Everyone would lose all search traffic they get to their current .com domains until they are picked back up. That would pretty much destroy even the major adult sites. Surely these major adult companies aren't going to let all the search traffic they have built up over many years just be wiped out.

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Northstar, yep, it would certainly create a ton of problems. I would guess that that current adult sites, if forced to start using the .xxx domain, would have their current sites automatically re-direct to the .xxx domain when a user typed in the current url, assuming, of course, that some cyber squatter didn't grab up the adults sites domain name with the .xxx first.

You would think that a certain amount of time would be provided before adult sites would be required to switch over to the .xxx domain. But then, when dealing with politicians one never knows.

It will be quite a mess and a heyday for the attorneys I would guess.

Bill

Deja vu *queue in xylophone*.

Well, I am sure many of you will spit or piss in my general direction, but I am all for it (I support the .xxx domain idea, not the piss thing), and in all honesty, I do not see why so many are getting all huffy about a 'red light district', for online porn. So what, does your local convenience store have porn mags on the lower shelves of the news stand next to the newest issue of Teen Idol, DragonBall Z/GT etcetera?

I expect many of you will start :argue: about freedom this, classification that and how we are being pushed to the dark corners of society.
NEVERTHELESS, at the end of the day, the CONCEPT is a good one: this will help the loving parents with their little battle against (their offspring and husbands from viewing) porn.

What I cannot believe is how many of you are trying to use the possibility that many filthy bastards will continue to operate as a dot com, as a righteous argument? I mean WTF half-baked kinda crap is that (but mom, all the other kids are killing people, why can't I, too *stamp stamp the feet*)?
Chances are, they are not 2257 compliant, so why are you?

Hell, my neighbours are stealing/sharing cable/satellite, so why should I pay for it!
... not paying taxes ... why should I.

My only concerns with .xxx are:
1). (as the oh so loverly MWCren said) I just hope there is a period of time for the owners of the dot coms have first option at the dot xxx domains.

2). whether or not billing and credit card companies will continue to process transactions for those filthy bastards (trying to sneak under the .xxx radar).
I hope they are capable of seeing past the almighty buck!

Regarding all the trials and tribulations of the move ... I am willing to lose a little $ --- the industry/we all sure as hell made enough money in the past (no different from a donation to a charity).

AND ... GO :gossip:

I don't have a problem with it either. The ability of parents to block XXX domains might be easier than the content filters that pretty much suck. i also think it gives us an opportunity to put good old fashioned hardcore porn back in our tours!

Now, to hope that the regulators that want to keep cracking down on porn will take this as a final step and leave us alone, is pretty much a pipe dream.

I fully intend to go with the xxx when its available, but I'm not giving up the dot com until they drag it out of my ass. Autoforwarding is pretty simple.

I don't really have a big problem with the concept either.

My concerns are how this will affect search engine rankings. Does everyone start over from scratch?

My other big concern: does this make it easier and probable that traffic to our sites will be cut off. Search engine could decide not to spider XXX domains and ISP's could decide not to let surfers venture there.

If this is really about protecting children, then why don't they establish a .KIDS domain and control who is allowed to be in there?

Michael

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Originally Posted by MWCren

I don't have a problem with it either. The ability of parents to block XXX domains might be easier than the content filters that pretty much suck. i also think it gives us an opportunity to put good old fashioned hardcore porn back in our tours!

Now, to hope that the regulators that want to keep cracking down on porn will take this as a final step and leave us alone, is pretty much a pipe dream.

I fully intend to go with the xxx when its available, but I'm not giving up the dot com until they drag it out of my ass. Autoforwarding is pretty simple.

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Excellent points.
- I agree, current content filters suck!
- I, too, really miss hardcore tours! The biggest loss to the pocket book was when sites went limp.


Nice pic, BTW, but where's dah pup, MWCren?

I don't have any issues with .xxx becoming a reality, after all it will be a cash-cow for the registry companies and may make it easier for legit searches for porn online.

However, it will never replace .com, even if the USA law makers do pass legislation it will only meanthat more and more adult webmasters & companies will move all their businesses offshore. And if they try to implement government controlled / run filtering, I predict an increasing number of .com domain names with no porn related words in them that try to escape filtering, thus making it even harder for legitimate filtering options.

cheers,
Luke

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

I don't really have a big problem with the concept either.
My concerns are how this will affect search engine rankings. Does everyone start over from scratch?
My other big concern: does this make it easier and probable that traffic to our sites will be cut off. Search engine could decide not to spider XXX domains and ISP's could decide not to let surfers venture there.
If this is really about protecting children, then why don't they establish a .KIDS domain and control who is allowed to be in there?
Michael

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If that is what the mainstream SEs & ISP want, so be it, after all it is up to them (their business, let them run as they see fit). You should keep in mind that that move will only open up the path for adult oriented SE (which I am all for). In the end, it will provide me with better returns on what I am looking for (man alive do I get upset when I am searching for something non-porn related, yet porn is always a result).

Does everyone start over from scratch?
Just think: all those people complaining about getting in the business too late now have a second chance, which does not happen often in life (at least for those that are not Roman Catholic), so look at it as a blessing in disguise.

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

predict an increasing number of .com domain names with no porn related words in them that try to escape filtering, thus making it even harder for legitimate filtering options.

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Yes, our world will always have low-lifescum bags, which is my second concern:
(not to quote myself, BUT ...)

2). whether or not billing and credit card companies will continue to process transactions for those filthy bastards (trying to sneak under the .xxx radar).
I hope they are capable of seeing past the almighty buck!
-Me

Here is a good article that describes some of the problems associated with this proposal. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060319-6411.html Personaly I think the only thing that will protect childen from xxx content are responsable parants and better filtering software. Ultimatly thou if a teen wants to view adult conent they will figure a way to do it no matter how good the system. Hell, I remember back in the late 80's and 90's when I was in my teens I managed to get access to porn mags. and videos with no problem at all and without my parants having a clue.

Well another thing .... why does the existance of the xxx domain presume that all adult websites must use it?

Not every FM Radio station uses the .fm domain. Non profit organizations do not use org.

Plus.... this proposal is not segregation. This proposal is zoning, exactly like the land use zoning laws that cities use to divide one area into single family homes, and another area mixed business use. Instigating this proposal is a fundamental, dramatic change to the way the Internet has been organized and operated.

Also, to require an industry to purchase its address from a monopoly provider is absolutely rediculous.....

Steve

The joys of the internet and differing opinions and views. That is part of what makes this great and something that will suffer with the advent of segregation. Yes segregation Steve not zoning.

Zoning refers to a plot of real estate where certain building can be built and operated, and to some extend even what type of business can be opened. However the XXX TLD is segregation as it applies to people, to all who display non comforming images and text and ideas. The ghetto's of Warsaw were not zoning changes Steve, they were segregated communities just as the small black townships where before integration took place. Not zoning in any way shape or form.

For those who thing that well this is gonna get the government off your backs, you only need to look at recent history to show you that is just not going to happen. By embracing this segregated TLD you are only making it easier for those who oppose our lifestyle, our concept of what is and what isn't acceptable to isolate and eventually try to eliminate.

Alarmist you might say, but history has clearly shown that no matter how good the supposed intentions are, segregation and racism are not good for those being isolated. Hitler came to power promising pride and work, he didn't get to power promising war and extermination. The Russian revolution of 1917 was about bread instead of guns for the people and the end result was a 70 odd year arms race. So no, history clearly shows that as much as you might wish that idealistic goals are the true aim of segregation, reality is that it is merely window dressing for other aims and goals and ambitions.

Scoff if you will, but when all you nice adult sites are behind a XXX TLD it is very easy for a George Bush to put pressure on Google and MSN and Yahoo and others to cut XXX TLD from their indexes. Laugh you might that it would never happen, but get real because the assault has already begun. Do you really believe that the lawsuit against Google for its database is really to 'test' out filter programs?

Sure Google is battling it now, but even they aren't capable of endless legal battles. And frankly to put your trust in 9 people who have political masters is to say the least, a bit naive. Given the views stated by the new CHief Justice on Adult and the New Associate Justice, I'd be a lot more worried than not.

Appeasement only prolongs the struggle as Britain and France found out in 1939. All the XXX TLD will do is make it easier to isolate and find everyone. YOu think 2257 is crazy, wait till you see the requirements that could be easily added without legal recourse. Think about it before you embrace segregation as a way of appeasing those who want to attack.

Right now and since its inception, 2257 has been in the courts. It hasn't stopped the flow of child abuse one iota. It never will because it simply doesn't attack the problem, instead it attacks those who could actually help erase it. Look at how the government attempted to add all website owners to being required to list their addresses and be available for inspection of records and now with the XXX TLD they can have all that without the need to pass one single law. It can simply become a term of service to get a XXX domain.

There is the economic factor as well. The adult industry is lucrative and so it can afford the top guns in the legal profession. What will happen when that income drops to mere drops instead? Will those top guns still defend you?

By segregating the adult community it lessens the economic viability of the whole industry. Discreet pressure on the major search engines alone would have a devastating effect. Without that flow of easy to find sites, how many people will not seek alternative means? Magazines will see a rise but your website sure won't.

Without free and unincumbered access your revenue stream is going to dry up and then how many lawyers will you have on staff? So when the final wave does come, there won't be many to begin with, and those that are left won't have the means to fight. Think that is wrong? Look at history to see exactly how true that is. Look to 1932 Germany and by the time Hitler was finished, 12 million people had been exterminated. They couldn't afford to fight, to buy their freedom because they were denied jobs, denied the opportunity to work, and in short order they were easily gotten rid of.

That is history's lesson on segregation so before you jump up and down embracing the XXX TLD think about it.

But let's take it one more step, to show why this really isn't zoning but out and out racism. Let's not just have a XXX TLD but you know what, lets have a BLK TLD .. and put all those who are black skinned and own a website into that TLD... tell me then that XXX TLD isn't racist and segregation. Tell me when you take any minority group and put them behind a brick wall it isn't segregation.

It is naive to believe that the government is in favor of this to protect children. We are smart enough to know that no matter what you do, the CP asswipes will exist on the internet, whether it is in a dot com or a dot org or any other TLD you might want to name. One place you more than likely won't find them will be in the XXX TLD because they aren't that stupid. They aren't open now, why will they be later? It is absurd to believe this will eliminate them or harm their operation. It won't. As for stopping children from seeing adult content, wake up and make the one's who brought them into the world responsible for a change.

Poor Justin is a victim according to everyone on the media, yet not a word about his mom who hadn't a clue he was doing all that? She's was a bloody councillor and didn't know? Like excuse me but I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Of course she knew, she just didn't want to deal with it. Just like most parents don't, because it is inconvenient to them. Tough shit. Parenting is not about what is best for the adult, it is about raising a child to become an adult, and that means assuming responsibility.

If you truly want to end child abuse, start teaching people how to be parents and start making THEM accountable instead of strangers.

my quarters worth :coffee:

I for 1 will not give up my .com’s I don’t give a shit .com’s are all I will buy and I don’t see that changing. If I have to move to another country to do my work I will tell you one thing they will definitely regret it. If you don’t like what’s online don’t pay to have internet service, we are the ones that made the internet and really the home PC business what it is, with-out porn how many people do you really think would even own a PC at all? Now that they have made their money and established it they want to jerk the rug out form under the people that made it all possible. I say FUCK THEM! They will have to pry my .coms from my cold dead hands :bomb:

Well I don't think anyone would disagree with you about all those things. And I don't agree at all with the proposed rule. I think it's a terrible idea.

But the proposal being offered is de facto zoning. Wikipedia even calls zoning "regulation of the kinds of activities acceptable for certain areas." This is exactly what is being proposed, and it is a dramatic departure from the way the Internet was organized.

Now I would argue that zoning has historically been used to segregate areas, and that is what people are complaining about here. Why is the ICANN proposal segregation? Simple, because it introduces zoning to the Internet.

By the way, the largest city in the United States without any zoning is Houston. Every time there is a referendum (the latest was in 1993), the proposal loses because the blacks and hispanics vote against it. Zoning commissions are always operated for the benefit of the elites. New York City invented zoning in the early 20th century.... That's one reason it is one of the most expensive places to live on Earth today.

Steve

PS: If everyone really has such Kafkaesque scenarios of what the government may do to adult websites.... once again, why not do what every other industry does, and that is to form an advocacy organization. Just run TV ads that say "We are not China. Respect the Internet" ... stuff like that... Draw a line to something the Chinese government would assert.... it would resonate.

well, i do have a problem with it. of all the parents i know who are not adult webmasters, not ONE of them uses any filter for their children. that is a big fat fucking zero.

if what they wanted was to protect children, wouldn't the obvious and inexpensive thing be to come up with a law requiring sites with inappropriate content for minors to put a piece of code in their meta tags? and then ALL filters could check for that code. then require parents to USE some kind of filtering and voila! problem solved.

it would be simple, easy, free to implement and would allow 100% successful filtering out of all sites using that snippet of code. medical sites, art sites or other sites that have things that might not be appropriate for kids could use this code without being considered porn and being put on .xxx.

the catch here is that parental responsibility is not something that is even mentioned anymore. but with just a little of it, we could all work together happily without a financial burden being placed on one group of people.

I think with all due respect Steve that what you are saying, in regards to calling this zoning is one of the major reasons people like Bush and his ilk get away with all that they do.

By making it sound less ominous, less distasteful people get used to it. Look at the words they use now, ethnic cleansing instead of what it truly is... race murder. You call people who are fighting their own kind, secular violence, as if it is cloistered behind some monastery. Time to stop the pussy footing and call a spade a spade.

Compare the definitions and tell me again how this is just 'zoning'.

Zoning
1. To divide into zones.
2. To designate or mark off into zones.
3. To surround or encircle with or as if with a belt or girdle.
(dictionary.com)

Segregation
# The act or process of segregating or the condition of being segregated.
# The policy or practice of separating people of different races, classes, or ethnic groups, as in schools, housing, and public or commercial facilities, especially as a form of discrimination.

(dictionary.com)

There is no way that the religious right want this for protecting children, it is their way to isolate us so they can dictate who can see what and not see what. Even the article Lee quoted, calls this the Virtual Red Light and if you ask any policeman on why they favour red light districts, they'll tell you it is so they can control the undesireable elements and the associated crime. In reality, it is so they know who to watch, and can easily locate them. XXX TLD is the same, call it zoning if you wish, but if you look at the real definition of segregation, that is exactly what this is.

:coffee:

The problem of course is that parents no longer accept responsibility for the actions of their own children....hell, for that matter, not even for themselves. We've become a society of "blame someone else for our problems...and expect someone to fix it for us".

Bill

quite true, and if the parents don't use filtering for their kids, putting porn sites on .xxx won't help or change anything in any way.

besides, what about OTHER sites that could be harmful to minors that aren't porn? should doctors who show things from surgeries have to be put on .xxx? what about extreme violence sites? they are certainly not suitable for minors but they are definitely not porn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hdkbill

The problem of course is that parents no longer accept responsibility for the actions of their own children....hell, for that matter, not even for themselves. We've become a society of "blame someone else for our problems...and expect someone to fix it for us".

Bill

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

quite true, and if the parents don't use filtering for their kids, putting porn sites on .xxx won't help or change anything in any way.

besides, what about OTHER sites that could be harmful to minors that aren't porn? should doctors who show things from surgeries have to be put on .xxx? what about extreme violence sites? they are certainly not suitable for minors but they are definitely not porn.

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Basschick,

So true, but unfortunately it seems as if it is the adult industry who is in the cross hairs at the moment. I mean, the religious right has targeted us and gay issues as the replacement for communism. They have to do something to keep their funds coming in.

And, if the truth were known, the politicians aren't really tyring to protect kids from seeing adult material. Anyone with a lick of sense knows that the minute a kids sees a url ending with .xxx that will be the first one the kid looks at if the parents don't have filters on the computers. And, what about 2257, anyone who thinks that protects minors needs to go buy some more swamp land in Florida and start building an Ark.

Hugs,

Bill

i see them concerned with only 3 things:

gay marriage (and gay rights)
porn
abortion.

the "conservatives" and so-called christians live in a fantasy world. the ones i talk to have no idea of real problems. child and spousal abuse is out of control, people are starving and homeless - but they don't really believe any of that, probably because they don't want to :(

too bad their fantasies spill over on the rest of us...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hdkbill

Basschick,

So true, but unfortunately it seems as if it is the adult industry who is in the cross hairs at the moment. I mean, the religious right has targeted us and gay issues as the replacement for communism. They have to do something to keep their funds coming in.

And, if the truth were known, the politicians aren't really tyring to protect kids from seeing adult material. Anyone with a lick of sense knows that the minute a kids sees a url ending with .xxx that will be the first one the kid looks at if the parents don't have filters on the computers. And, what about 2257, anyone who thinks that protects minors needs to go buy some more swamp land in Florida and start building an Ark.

Hugs,

Bill

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by hdkbill

The problem of course is that parents no longer accept responsibility for the actions of their own children....hell, for that matter, not even for themselves. We've become a society of "blame someone else for our problems...and expect someone to fix it for us".
Bill

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Woo hoo! Bill, you just opened a HUGE can of worms!
(Going off-topic, somewhat.)

I agree: responsibility and accountability have gone the way of the dodo bird - many persons want to look at others for their shortcomings, but not themselves.

Too many parents expect others to police their children, but NOT with a firm hand.
Too many people expect the government and society to bail them out of their financial problems (bankruptcy), over and over again (once, sure, I guess I can try to understand. But the truly off the wall are those that declare personal bankruptcy - how the hell can a person expect to keep what they purchased, on credit? Give back your HDTV and gaming console you POS!).

As far as I am concerned, if YOU cannot take care of YOUR responsibilities (children &/or business ‘ventures’), more or less by YOURSELF, maybe YOU do not deserve the right to reproduce or wonder off on some business venture. (Yah, I am sure many think that is a fascists attitude. Oh well!) Please, keep in mind I am not talking about the citizens of a third world country ... I am going on about North Americans (Canadians and Americans).

EVERYBODY wants to be a movie star (or ‘be like Mike’), yet nobody is reading the script. Blah blah, and a wah wah, I have too much pride to get a regular 9-5, but not so much that they can still expect good ole Uncle to fix their shit!

Uh, sorry folks. I must have spent too much time in the backcountry, away from society, as it seems since I've been back all I want to do is blah blah.

Paco - i don't think parental responsibility IS off topic. i think it IS the topic. we have all sorts of very easy and free ways for parents to keep their kids from seeing most porn. even though they are easy AND free, and come complete with most major dialup/dsl accounts, no parents bother to use them.

if parents took just a tiny bit of responsibility, they wouldn't have to be so upset.

look at that grandma who bought her 14 year old grandson GTA3 - San Andreas. there's a big fat M MATURE on the front and the back of the box. it says it's not suitable and it says WHY. she bought it and gave it to the kid and now is suing rockstar and demanding government action. if she had spent 2 minutes or less reading, her 14 year old grandson wouldn't have ever seen that game. but 2 minutes is FAR too much time to spend on the children these people claim to love and care for. they'd rather just yell.

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Originally Posted by basschick

Paco - i don't think parental responsibility IS off topic. i think it IS the topic. we have all sorts of very easy and free ways for parents to keep their kids from seeing most porn. even though they are easy AND free, and come complete with most major dialup/dsl accounts, no parents bother to use them.
if parents took just a tiny bit of responsibility, they wouldn't have to be so upset.
look at that grandma who bought her 14 year old grandson GTA3 - San Andreas. there's a big fat M MATURE on the front and the back of the box. it says it's not suitable and it says WHY. she bought it and gave it to the kid and now is suing rockstar and demanding government action. if she had spent 2 minutes or less reading, her 14 year old grandson wouldn't have ever seen that game. but 2 minutes is FAR too much time to spend on the children these people claim to love and care for. they'd rather just yell.

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Thank you Madam - I was not sure if some would appreciate the tangent, I went off on, so I threw in the apology.
I do agree with you. The problem is bad parents are becoming more frequent and the voices (complaints) are becoming louder. Because the government could never get away with forcing them to take 'proper parenting classes', additional rules have to be applied.

In all honesty, I truly hate censorship (I view the .xxx domain proposal as a form of), HOWEVER, it is needed, thanks to the bad fathers and mothers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paco

Thank you Madam - I was not sure if some would appreciate the tangent, I went off on, so I threw in the apology.
I do agree with you. The problem is bad parents are becoming more frequent and the voices (complaints) are becoming louder. Because the government could never get away with forcing them to take 'proper parenting classes', additional rules have to be applied.

In all honesty, I truly hate censorship (I view the .xxx domain proposal as a form of), HOWEVER, it is needed, thanks to the bad fathers and mothers!

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If the problem is bad parenting (for which I agree) then how does censorship and segregation solve it? Isn't the only way to solve a problem is deal with the cause not its effects? That's sort of like saying if a person has a cough due to cancer of the lungs, give him cough syrop.

What is needed is action against the cause, not the symptom. And while cough syrop might help the cough, placing adult sites under XXX isn't going to help stop one kid from seeing naked pictures. Sorry but while it is most likely a losing battle, caving in to the puritans is not going to solve anything, it never has as history clearly bears out.

you know what amazes me? you wouldn't think so, but there actually are laws in place to keep parental neglect from harming children. too bad no one applies those laws.

even if all porn disappeared off the web, there are still chatroom predators, sites showing dismembered bodies, and a lot of other stuff i certainly wouldn't want children to see. the bottom line is that without parental supervision and guidance, children are at least going to see things they shouldn't and at most become victims.

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

If the problem is bad parenting (for which I agree) then how does censorship and segregation solve it? Isn't the only way to solve a problem is deal with the cause not its effects? That's sort of like saying if a person has a cough due to cancer of the lungs, give him cough syrop.
What is needed is action against the cause, not the symptom. And while cough syrop might help the cough, placing adult sites under XXX isn't going to help stop one kid from seeing naked pictures. Sorry but while it is most likely a losing battle, caving in to the puritans is not going to solve anything, it never has as history clearly bears out.

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Good point and I agree, however dealing with the cause of the problem (bad webmasters & bad parents) is a next to impossible battle. In addition, removing 'harmful' material is (as with terrorism) merely an addition to the impossible crusade.
Sure, giving in to the wants of the puritans is not the right answer, however, I do feel the meagre compromise (on our behalf) may help quite the cough, at least until a proper cure is found.

The solution is right in front of us:
A). The part of the parents is easy ... look after your children! Not much more can be added to that, but I will reword it ... mom & dad (or whatever), DO YOUR JOB!
B). Our part: turn in all crooked webmasters/report what you know (LOL, yah right that is all we need - a society of snitches)!
This is something 90% of the persons in our industry are not willing to do - they'd rather reap the rewards and look the other way.
Perfect example = spam. All say they will not accept sales generated via spam, but they do!

.xxx does have its pluses (already mentioned):
- by rights, there should be no more warning pages, allowing us to go full on hardcore
- porn specific search engines (more people in our industry can make more money)

Yet again, the crooked web masters will do what they can (go offshore etc), they always do!
(No, I did not say those with offshore accounts are crooked, however I myself do not see a purpose for them. I am Canadian, thusly I have a bank account in Canada and I pay revenue Canada exactly what I owe them!)

Me, I tend to be an extremist, so I'd go as far to say if the parents can not keep their seeds from seeing that which they do not want them to see, remove the PC from the house hold etc, until the spawns reach age of majority.

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Me, I tend to be an extremist, so I'd go as far to say if the parents can not keep their seeds from seeing that which they do not want them to see, remove the PC from the house hold etc, until the spawns reach age of majority.

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LOL couldn't agree more...

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

I think with all due respect Steve that what you are saying, in regards to calling this zoning is one of the major reasons people like Bush and his ilk get away with all that they do.

There is no way that the religious right want this for protecting children, it is their way to isolate us so they can dictate who can see what and not see what.

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My goodness..... I'm touching nerves again. I don't mean to debate definitions with you.... especially since I agree with most of what you say here. But you guys need to look at what Congress is doing and call it what it is.... it is doing nothing any different than what it did to the food industry, which was pass regulations for the purposes of protecting the consumer. Here they are passing regulations to protect children. The New Deal included laws dictating how stocks and bonds are sold, what companies must disclose in order to issue public stock, and who they must register with. This is essentially the same tack as 2257..... rules and regulations for business operations.

But that's 2257, and not the subject here - which is the proposed xxx domain.

If the government is going to force all adult websites to use the XXX domain, this is exactly the same as when your town puts all the Sexually Oriented Businesses over on the wrong side of the tracks, by the warehouse district away from the schools and churches. and probably near the poor houses. That's what I mean when I describe this effort as "adding zoning to the Internet"

So that also means that if this xxx proposal becomes a reality, than we can analyze how it would effect our business by comparing it to how other businesses have been effected when communities have implimented zoning laws.

Frankly, I don't think whining that this proposal is de facto segregation is very pursuaive to the layman. They don't care... after all, they hear the adult industry is making lots of cash, so why not make us pay a little extra if that can protect kids. This is exactly the attitude people have about taxing the windfall profits of Exxon and Chevron... after all they are making tons of cash right now, so why not make them pay extra now for Katrina or whatever else.

I'm trying to show why the XXX domain mandate is bad for business and how it leads the entire Internet operation down a bad slippery slope, which is I think is more pursuasive that just branding it as segregation.

Of course, it is ultimately segregation. And there are many different paths to reach the same place on top of the mountain.

Steve