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If you are a client of ibill, your information was sold/transferred to etelegate near the end of march. This includes your personal/company information, bank account numbers, everything. If that is of concern to you, please contact me by AIM or Yahoo with the name MWCren.
This is not about money they owe, this is more fundamental. If you had any credit card rebills active with ibill, as of March 28th, this affects you.
(this is not an attempt to win the contest, this is a serious matter)
Wasnt that info 'stolen' according to iBill?
If not, that is a serious breach of the data protection act :eek:
Regards,
Lee
That was data that was proven not to be ibill data. This is a totally different and a much more direct violation of privacy policies as well as card association rules. This was all intentional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
On March 29th, ibill transferred webmaster and customer billing data to etelegate. This includes customer login passwords, customer billing information, webmaster tax ID and banking information, everything.
Etelegate immediately began processing any pending rebills, and adding a surcharge of $1.99 to each transaction. I would never allow such a thing to happen to my customers, they didn't agree to that surcharge when they joined, so I asked how to cancel all my remaining rebills. I was told to cancel them in the ibill CMI.
Low and behold, yesterday I was told that the ibill CMI cancellations were a waste of effort, and the active rebills would have to be cancelled through etelegate customer service. The ibill data that remains is a dead database, not connected to anything, not talking to anyone, its just sitting there.
Ibill is basically out of the processing business. They sold/transferred everyone's information to someone else, under the cover of darkness.
I can't even tell you how pissed I am. They don't owe me a great deal of money, they paid it off last year. My beef is how creepy and underhanded they are getting out of the business. I'm sure it is not only un-ethical, but most likely against card association rules, banking rules, and every privacy policy they claim to uphold.
They attempted to do something similar for their gateway clients, tried to push them into netbilling, but someone had the means to get a court injunction to stop it. In this situation, no one knew what was happening, until it was too late.
So, if you had rebills pending with ibill on March 28th, they are being billed by etelegate, and to stop the billing, you have to contact etelegate. ibill is toast. They don't process, they don't offer any support or assistance, they don't allow you to manage your customers, they have taken refuge under rocks and in caves and are enjoying the fruits of your labors. The ibill data we have access to will most likely disappear in the coming days/weeks. Get every report you can pull, and get it fast.
Does anyone know how to report this to the card associations? Which regulators or agencies can bring the hammer down on these scumbags?
Ren - have you been contacted by Etelegate ?
Is that where you received the information about the additional charges ?
I see a note on the 'main menu' page, however, I am somewhat positive we have yet to receive the notification.
Nope, not a peep. I was told by ibill that there would be a surcharge, and that etelegate has all of my information, awaiting my signup for a new processing account with etelegate. Like that will ever happen!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco
I've already gotten 2 customers bitching at me for the extra 2 bucks on subscriptions that I told them were cancelled, but they are being re-billed anyway. I call etelegate to cancel everything and they tell me to call ibill, ibill tells me to call etelegate. Its a fucking circle jerk. Meanwhile customers are getting billed for subscriptions I cancelled, and no one gives a shit.
I am so sick of this bullshit, someone has to be able to get this scam shut down.
Thanks, Q-T-Pie, for the FYI.
I've sent the message up the grapevine, and am waiting for a reply (yah, they were sucked in or they bit at Iblah's offer).
Did they actually create an account with etelegate?
The monthly gateway fee, $1.99 surcharge on all transactions, refund fees as high as $150 per transaction? The guy from etelegate that was training the ibill people was bragging about their fee structure and how they make the bulk of their profits from those fees. Its just all a bit too shady for me.
Oh, an update. I emailed Symmetrex, who is the actual processor that these transactions go through.. and someone actually responded ! If anything will happen, I don't know, but I'm gonna keep screaming and bitching to get this crap stopped.
I know this might be a stupid question, but what is their problem? Where they not making big bucks? I really don’t see why the would be going out of business especially in such a bad way.
.
Honestly, I do not know. I am not the main contact (the person that is has a beyond horrid e-mail practice ... never checks mail).Quote:
Originally Posted by MWCren
For all I know, they coild have sent us an e-mail stating they are nolonger pay us for any transactions they process for HAH HAH HAH ... oops, sorry, a bout of hysteria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWCren
I think what I would do in this situation is to draft an email to all of your Ibill recurring customers explaining the situation, and that you'd tried to get all the rebills cancelled, and then asking them to charge back all of their Etelegate charges, (and an explanation of how to do so with phone numbers for the 4 or 5 largest card issuers) and that you will give them a free month (or 5 bucks off recurring or something) if they re-sign up with your current processor.
Then, find out who owns Etelegate, send a copy of that email to them, and let them know they have 24 hours to contact you and resolve the situation before you email all of your customers.
My guess is people will be falling all over themselves at Etelegate to make things right, because they could lose their processing in a flash if they suddenly have bazillions of chargebacks.
The other issue here... notifying Visa USA...
Steve Ruwe is the senior vice president of risk for Visa USA. My guess is he would be VERY interested in this situation, as it's almost certainly a violation not only for IBill but for Etelegate. I'm pretty sure that Etelegate, as an IPSP, would be required to have a new high-risk application for each client they are processing for, and I'm sure they didn't shell out the $400 per company for each Ibill client they acquired.
I don't have his direct contact information, but he lives in San Mateo, CA, and works for Visa USA in the San Francisco office. The number for media inquiries for VISA US is (415) 932-2564; I'm sure someone there can get you to Steve or someone in his group.
Yeah, I have already contacted all remaining rebills, notified them of the situation, told them what to look for, and how to handle it.
I even set up a very low price point to re-join through ccbill. So far about 30% have signed up again, and as I manually remove them from the member base, I'm sure more will continue to join again.
Thanks so much for the contact at VISA. Etelegate is officially an offshore processor, as is the ibill "gkard" product. Even if they are not governed by VISA US, I'm sure he will be able to pass the info along to the compliance and fraud group.
I am makng progress with symmetrex, the actual processor, they know the refunds and chargebacks are coming, I am sure they don't want to lose their bank relationships over this. They helped me to get one person refunded, and I'm not through yet. Symmetrex is very concerned that ibill and etelegate have removed my ability to manage my subscribers. They have been very helpful so far.
Sounds like some are making good pro-active moves to battle the "money siphons",,,,,, "thumbs up, and more power to ya" !
It's refreshing to see a common sense approach,, because most of the posts I see in forums are people screaming, flailing their arms, and most of them don't have a clue as to what is truly going on,,, because they aren't making the effort to dig into the facts. Especially with this Etelegate thing,,,,
BTW,,, for those of you that don't know already but really want the "real details" of the iBill/Etelegate deal and MANY other issues simply go to the SEC government site,, do a search on Interactive Brand Development.
SEC =Securities and Exchange Commission
Among All of the present and past iBill moves in their 'filings",, the Etelegate "business arrangement" is spelled out in specific detail...
Upfront Monies paid for "hiring", Etelgate,Fees charged to consumers and merchants, rights/responsibilities, and down to what "cuts" iBill and Etelegate are splitting for transactions,,,
You will also note the Etelegate filing date,,, It was signed sealed and delivered before iBill was "pleased" to announce it to those that matter the most in any service-oriented business,, > > clients who generate the revenue, and consumers who buy products,,
Read up on it,,, they are the facts,,,, real eye openers,,,
"Knowledge is Power"
Good work on the symanntrex thing !,,,,,
Question is,,,,,
Are they concerned enough to look into the last 7+ months of missing reserve releases, and see that the webmasters get their money back, while iBill is folding up another tent ? ? ?
And,, if you have any contact info for a co-operative source there, could you fill us in so we don't use trial and error, and re-invent the wheel that you already made ? ?
Thanks for sharing your information with us,,,,
No, I won't give out the contact information I have with symmetrex. Just know that they are as concerned about the way this has gone down as all webmasters are, and are working to get webmasters access to their customer data in order to cancel or refund any transactions we didn't approve.
To MCWren,
HMMM, well ok,,, don't really know why that would be some big secret,,
That's a real 'concerned' spirit of co-operation. If anything it might help for them to hear from more folks,,,
Well, I guess it's "off on our own",,, Thanks again for sharing the great things you are doing for yourself,,, If we want an update on how wonderful things are going for you,, I guess we will just have to keep our eye out for your posts,,,, Good luck !
I didn't ask permission to give out the contact info, and with your attitude, I wouldn't give it to you at this point regardless. You think I am going to post a person's contact information in a public forum so that they can get a ton of email that is not pertinent to their job?
This person does a very specific task at Symmetrex. It has nothing to do with past due money. Your beef is with ibill and collecting from them. My beef was with access to my member data through etelegate, and some unauthorized rebills.
I have been able to access my data with etelegate at this point, cancelled all the current rebills and refunded the ones they slammed through earlier in the week. I'm finished with them now. I can move on.
I'd still report the issue to Visa, if you haven't already. I did a bit more digging, and I think the guy that I mentioned before is the VP of risk for Visa worldwide, not just the US. They have separate risk departments for their EU business, but apparently Visa US is the parent company.
I haven't gotten to it yet, but yes, I still intend to report it to VISA. I'm trying to get these former ibill peeps to join again. Its like trying to herd cats!
Oh...
Those pricks at etelegate.. I swear, if I knew a good attorney in Arizona....
One of my customers got his cancellation notice from etelegate, called their toll free number to find out the reason, and the rep there pulled up my information and gave him my HOME PHONE NUMBER!
The hits just keep on coming!
MWCren,,,
Sorry if you think 'I' have an attitude,,,, but I seriously doubt that anyone is going to spend time bombarding Symmentrx with calls or e-mails unless they have a legitimate reason.... That sounds a little childish,, but who knows ?
Also,,, if 'customer service' people have to deal with any issues, or problems that goes with the territory,,, why in the world would you be concerned with protecting those people from doing their job ? *scratching my head*
My point is,, in case it went over your head, is that is precisely why shit like this happens,,,, many people are affected by the same thing and crooks get away with it because they count on the delay of information sharing.
That's also why iBill has been able to drag this crap out for so long,,
For some time they had most people thinking that their account problems were 'isolated',, when in fact, it was happening to everyone at the same time. They counted on that to delay all of this as much as possible !
So if you want to 'go it alone' that's fine, I have no problem with that as I am sure it won't be that difficult for concerned parties to phone, or e-mail themselves,,, and probably come up with the same person, or someone that is equally 'concerned',, Thanks anyway,,,
.
And,, BTW,,, Symmentrex Does have something to do with missing reserve payouts that I speak of,,, they are recent,, not 'past due' funds from pre-Symmentrex involvement. IF they returned them to iBill but iBill didn't relay them, I agree, that is a different story,,, Only thing is,, Symmentrex was the one cutting the payout checks,,, HMMMMMMMMM... 1+1=2,,,
But, regardless of what is happening with them, Symmentrex should know, and I have this feeling that they already do.,
So anyway,,, great to hear you severed your iBill ties,, that is the main issue, no matter how one goes about it,,, No hard feelings,, just trying to
consolidate some effort thru some teamwork,,
Chad Belville is in Arizona, and, as we discovered on the bus to one of the Phoenix Forum dinners, pretty much all of the major gay companies and many smaller ones use Chad. We were all talking about how none of us can ever sue each other because Chad represents all of us... it's sorta like Chilihost... eventually, we'll all end up there, and I think it's the same with Chad :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MWCren
I would highly recommend Chad.
LOL.. yeah, I was planning on contacting him. I was just trolling to see if he would find the thread, or jump in and make me a lovely offer of representation.