Ccbill Banning the word Twinks?

With all this talk I was wondering what you think the chances Ccbill will be banning the word twink in the next 5 years. Also what you think we could do to turn this situation around before its too late. As we all know its much easier to take freedoms away than it is to get them back, personally I think the only thing they will lesson to is a pubic boycott from at least all webmasters in the twink industry, but every concerned party is more than welcome to help us out before this becomes a problem for you too.

Sean, this is BS.

Who cares what the likelihood is? And besides, it's far more likely that Visa US will ban it than ccbill... and, for that matter, suppose Paycom or Verotel or somebody else bans it?

It's a totally non-relevant issue.

I don't understand your fascination with this topic... it's already been discussed ad nauseum.

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Originally Posted by boyfunk

Sean, this is BS.

Who cares what the likelihood is? And besides, it's far more likely that Visa US will ban it than ccbill... and, for that matter, suppose Paycom or Verotel or somebody else bans it?

It's a totally non-relevant issue.

I don't understand your fascination with this topic... it's already been discussed ad nauseum.

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Ok man I will drop it, but I will say the other processor like “Verotel” will be the last to do something like that. I do really think its relevant if I am going to try to build up recurring members with a company that could put a hold on my account in the future, or force me to change my URL because now they do not like it.

Also I might be wrong, but I think they are much harsher on gay sites than str8 sites as far as some of these word rules.

Below is a copy of the post which I replied to on another board for this same question....

Just to clear things up in this thread, the OP is only basing their opinion from speculation on what they have seen from other search engines. As this is an constantly evolving industry, no one can say for certain what could possibly happen five years down the road from now, however, we have no current notification of that word being an issue.

:)


Regards,

James A
Client Support Supervisor
Clientsupport at CCBill.com
1-800-510-2859

I see that man, but with all respect that was not an answer. Why should I trust that I will not wake up one day and a hold will be placed on my account or the years I spend building up a URL will be wasted. I really just believe your service is on the edge with issues like this, and I do not want to be the first to fall off. Preempting possible rule chances are ok as a canary in the mine kinda thing, but not really what I want for a twink site. :baby:

Like I said before I will drop this, I do not want to keep going on and on about it. But I for one do not trust they will not throw me to the wolfs, even if you think their is a 20% chance they will ban that word in 5 years with their past history is it worth you risking you business for? I want someone that will fight for me, and the LAST to adopt or really be forced to do things like this. I could be wrong, but if I am not I hope Lee adds a “I told you so” icon on this site so I can use it at that time. :P

As with what was previously posted by boyfunk, this is something that does not solely concern CCBill. As with Paycom, or any other merchant provider there are regulations that must be met given directly from the Card Associations in which we all must comply with. In the end, regardless of which billing provider you decide to invest your time and effort in, anyone of them can have new regulations placed upon them at anytime.



Regards,

James A
Client Support Supervisor
Clientsupport at CCBill.com
1-800-510-2859

Well yes that is true, but ALL major processors do not have the same word rules as you and still work with Visa every day. For me its come down to trust and past history, I really want to have the LAST processor to be forced to adopt a stupid rule rather than the first to preempt a possible law or Visa regulation. :turtle: I really do not think your service as good as it is, is very “twink” friendly

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Originally Posted by CCBill James

As with what was previously posted by boyfunk, this is something that does not solely concern CCBill. As with Paycom, or any other merchant provider there are regulations that must be met given directly from the Card Associations in which we all must comply with. In the end, regardless of which billing provider you decide to invest your time and effort in, anyone of them can have new regulations placed upon them at anytime.

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Hi Bill,

do those badword-lists also count for ccBill-EU?

DEVELISH

Not from what I know, they operate under different rules.

If you're paranoid with the word "twinks", DON'T USE IT and stop wasting time and bandwidth on an issue on what MIGHT happen 5 years in the future.

The way things are going, I think it's just as likely that Visa US will ban adult entirely, or .xxx will force everyone in the US into the .xxx ghetto, or the Supremes will declare anything involving overt sexual conduct to be obscene as for one processor to ban the word "twink."

And there's no guarantee that Verotel won't disappear as have practically all the other processors except for ccbill and Paycom.

The whole discussion is pointless.

ccbill being dropped by visa won't really help you or any of us make money. if you want to get upset, get upset at the people who want to take away your freedom of expression or get upset at visa IF (and they haven't so far) they ban the words you want to use.

For any business, rules change. Those that can adapt to the changes will survive. Those that cannot adapt will die. I remember when groundwater rules were changed for gasoline stations and the stations that couldn't afford new tanks and monitoring wells went out of business. It was tough but the survivors were better businesses.

Bitching about what might happen will do nobody any good. You can only be flexible enough to adapt to any changes, and if the word "twink" really did get banned, it will be banned for more than just one website. Everybody will be in the same situation.
You are not a victim or a potential victim, except of your own imagination.

chad - i'd say we're ALL a victim of his imagination :D

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

You are not a victim or a potential victim, except of your own imagination.

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Originally Posted by basschick

chad - i'd say we're ALL a victim of his imagination :D

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Ha HA HA :P

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

For any business, rules change. Those that can adapt to the changes will survive. Those that cannot adapt will die. I remember when groundwater rules were changed for gasoline stations and the stations that couldn't afford new tanks and monitoring wells went out of business. It was tough but the survivors were better businesses.

Bitching about what might happen will do nobody any good. You can only be flexible enough to adapt to any changes, and if the word "twink" really did get banned, it will be banned for more than just one website. Everybody will be in the same situation.
You are not a victim or a potential victim, except of your own imagination.

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I know you are right, but it will be a bit hard to have a twink site if I can not call it that, hell right now I am really creating a “Teen Boy” site but I can not call it that so I have to use the word twink. If twink is then gone what am I supposed to call Teen Boys “Frat”?

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Originally Posted by basschick

ccbill being dropped by visa won't really help you or any of us make money. if you want to get upset, get upset at the people who want to take away your freedom of expression or get upset at visa IF (and they haven't so far) they ban the words you want to use.

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I am a bit mad a Visa ECT but I really think these people have gone after the week link and that’s our US processors.

no, because - again - frat is not what they are.

18 year olds
18 and 19 year old guys
cute 18 and 19 year olds
18 year old college guys

I know I could use that, it just does not have the same ring as, Teen Boys :cry:

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Originally Posted by basschick

no, because - again - frat is not what they are.

18 year olds
18 and 19 year old guys
cute 18 and 19 year olds
18 year old college guys

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BTW thax for all the text terms, I am about to start creating some text for my new sites, and I have saved that so I can maybe use some of that :)

Your paranoia and frustration is totally misdirected. You want the easy way into the adult market, so you choose twinks. Fine, many successful sites have created the groundwork that makes it possible for you to do that.

Just keep in mind that its the sick CP fucks that are causing all these issues. Predators and child abusers are the ones you should be pissed at, not google or ccbill.

There are rules and regulations for everything. This is a nation of laws, and they are basically there for the good of the majority. Sometimes this shit happens. If you're not creative enough or lack the imagination to work with the system instead of bitching about it, maybe you should reconsider your line of work.

As long as you choose to profit from the types of guys that child predators will be attracted to, you're gonna be in that fringe area that will attract scrutiny. You have no 2257 compliance statement on your site, you use key words like "barely legal boys" in your site text. What the fuck do you expect? You are not totally innocent here. You push the envelope, you're gonna get a paper cut eventually.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I know you are right, but it will be a bit hard to have a twink site if I can not call it that, hell right now I am really creating a “Teen Boy” site but I can not call it that so I have to use the word twink. If twink is then gone what am I supposed to call Teen Boys “Frat”?

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If you can't call it a twink site, then nobody else can either. You will have to adapt to the changes or get a job at Wal Mart. Surfers looking for twinks are not going to stop surfing for twink sites when their searches turn up no results--they are going to use different key words. The top search querries for the 18-23 skinny boys might be "18 year old gay boys that look like they just got out of the meth rehab clinic" . You will just have to know what the surfers are looking for when they are searching for sites like yours.

Really, it is not a big deal if a key search term gets banned.

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Originally Posted by MWCren

Y You have no 2257 compliance statement on your site,

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Max, unless you moved from California to Canada in the past week, if this is true you are guilty of a felony. Regardless if you are an FSC member or not.

Hey Max, you listen to Art Bell?

Everything on my site is changing now even that, I am having a professional redo the whole site, so I will be sure to add that. I just did not put it on the main page because of the frames I used, but I will not have that problem with the new one. :sun:

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Originally Posted by chadknowslaw

Max, unless you moved from California to Canada in the past week, if this is true you are guilty of a felony. Regardless if you are an FSC member or not.

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did you really read what chad said?????

if the govt happens to archive your site as it is now, you can be prosecuted later, regardless of whether you changed your site later. they won't care - if things go that far, all they'll care about is sending you to jail for 5 years. right now you are guilty of a crime and they can prove it. don't wait for the designer to change anything - put up that 2257 link TODAY!

man, if i could comply with part of a law by doing something as easy as typing a sentence, i'd have done it before the law came all the way into effect. in fact, i did.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Everything on my site is changing now even that, I am having a professional redo the whole site, so I will be sure to add that. I just did not put it on the main page because of the frames I used, but I will not have that problem with the new one. :sun:

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I know Bass Thax I will do that today, with all this getting ready for the “new” site I have all but forgot about the old one all together. Only less than 2 weeks and the new one will be open :sun:

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Originally Posted by basschick

did you really read what chad said?????

if the govt happens to archive your site as it is now, you can be prosecuted later, regardless of whether you changed your site later. they won't care - if things go that far, all they'll care about is sending you to jail for 5 years. right now you are guilty of a crime and they can prove it. don't wait for the designer to change anything - put up that 2257 link TODAY!

man, if i could comply with part of a law by doing something as easy as typing a sentence, i'd have done it before the law came all the way into effect. in fact, i did.

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I have a twink site, and I've been having a LOT of trouble getting approved by CCBill. I wanted to go with them so I could have affiliates like boyfunk (I'm a Sammy Case fan). But, no matter how many times I change my site, as they've directed, I keep getting declined.
I would never have suspected a company like CCBill to do something out of spite but...well...this does seem a bit odd to me.
Maybe they DO have an issue with twink sites.
azura blu

Well not sure I would say its banned yet, but you are right their rules are getting more strict all the time. I have never tried to get processing from them, not because I could not work out what they really want I really just do not trust with their past history they are going too do next. They are just a processor man, their are others, and others ways to do things, after all this is still the Internet we are talking about. :penny:

what changes do they want?

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Originally Posted by azurablu9

I have a twink site, and I've been having a LOT of trouble getting approved by CCBill. I wanted to go with them so I could have affiliates like boyfunk (I'm a Sammy Case fan). But, no matter how many times I change my site, as they've directed, I keep getting declined.
I would never have suspected a company like CCBill to do something out of spite but...well...this does seem a bit odd to me.
Maybe they DO have an issue with twink sites.
azura blu

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Originally Posted by azurablu9

But, no matter how many times I change my site, as they've directed, I keep getting declined.
I would never have suspected a company like CCBill to do something out of spite but...well...this does seem a bit odd to me.
Maybe they DO have an issue with twink sites.
azura blu

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No, it's not that. The problem is that the way CCBill's compliance works. They go through the site, and when they find a problem, they STOP compliance checks and report what they've found. Then, when you fix the first reported problems, they continue the compliance checks. I've had to go 10 rounds with them before, and I, too, got frustrated that (unlike Paycom) they don't just go through the entire site and give you a noncompliance list to fix. It would seem to be a lot more efficient for everyone.

However, they don't do things out of spite, and they aren't trying to annoy you. They do have limits, and if you have a site that's beyond what they are comfortable with, they'll simply tell you that right up front. What they're trying to do is ensure that, once your site is ready to be submitted to Visa, it will go through without any problems. They may be picky, but from what I understand, it's pretty unusual for a site to be rejected by Visa after CCBill compliance has approved it, and that's to everyone's benefit.

What do you know about getting your own merchant account directly with visa and not having to mess with them at all? Personally I would rather deal right up to the source, and in this case its Visa. :$$$:

you don't deal with visa directly if you have your own merchant account. you deal with the acquiring bank.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

What do you know about getting your own merchant account directly with visa and not having to mess with them at all? Personally I would rather deal right up to the source, and in this case its Visa. :$$$:

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Then would you need Ccbill at all? Or could you just pay a company to manage the members lists ECT, and not have to pay Ccbill or really anyone on a % of my sales. I am sure I would have to pay something to Visa/bank like 5-8% I would think would be cool LOL :signhere:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Then would you need Ccbill at all? Or could you just pay a company to manage the members lists ECT, and not have to pay Ccbill or really anyone on a % of my sales. I am sure I would have to pay something to Visa/bank like 5-8% I would think would be cool LOL :signhere:

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You wouldn't need ccbill, but you'd have to do all your own fraud screening, or else use Netbilling, who will take a % of your sales. Additionally, you're totally at the mercy of the acquiring bank... which could drop you at any time, in some cases without notice. And... merchant accounts for membership sites, PARTICULARLY twink membership sites are very difficult to get. You have to get through the compliance department of the acquiring bank, which in many cases will be far more conservative than the IPSP (CCBill or Paycom). And, from what I've heard, most acquiring banks want a minimum of $50,000-$100,000/month in processing, and you pay the discount rate based on that minimum, whether or not you hit it.

Honestly, we've considered going with a direct merchant account, but even if we did, we'd still have Paycom and CCBill as backups... you can bet that at any given time, they have at least two or three (if not more) acquiring banks just in case one suddenly changes their rules.

$50,000-$100,000/month god man that’s allot of money, it would be hard to even find enough content to buy with that, and in one month or two and you would have about all of it. The only way I can see how too make money like that is a huge numbers of affiliates promoting sites they really like. What % would you say of gay adult webmasters are making even 25,000+ a month, personally I would say about 50-100 maybe in the world. I wish I could make that much, but I guess that is up to selling your sites to affiliates.


Is Paycom cool, are they out of the US? They more friendly would you say to twink sites, I really do not know much about them. I really do like having a overseas processor for now, this daily changing situation from the us processors makes me nervous. You know when they change a rule next time it will go after twink sites I bet, we are the easiest witch-hunt for them.

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Originally Posted by boyfunk

You wouldn't need ccbill, but you'd have to do all your own fraud screening, or else use Netbilling, who will take a % of your sales. Additionally, you're totally at the mercy of the acquiring bank... which could drop you at any time, in some cases without notice. And... merchant accounts for membership sites, PARTICULARLY twink membership sites are very difficult to get. You have to get through the compliance department of the acquiring bank, which in many cases will be far more conservative than the IPSP (CCBill or Paycom). And, from what I've heard, most acquiring banks want a minimum of $50,000-$100,000/month in processing, and you pay the discount rate based on that minimum, whether or not you hit it.

Honestly, we've considered going with a direct merchant account, but even if we did, we'd still have Paycom and CCBill as backups... you can bet that at any given time, they have at least two or three (if not more) acquiring banks just in case one suddenly changes their rules.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

What % would you say of gay adult webmasters are making even 25,000+ a month, personally I would say about 50-100 maybe in the world. I wish I could make that much, but I guess that is up to selling your sites to affiliates.

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I suspect there are more than 100, but probably not more than 500 who do over $50,000 worldwide on the gay side... $25,000/month really isn't that much ($6250/week)... and there are tons on the straight side who do much more.

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Is Paycom cool, are they out of the US? They more friendly would you say to twink sites, I really do not know much about them. I really do like having a overseas processor for now, this daily changing situation from the us processors makes me nervous. You know when they change a rule next time it will go after twink sites I bet, we are the easiest witch-hunt for them.

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For the LAST time (hopefully) IT IS NOT THE PROCESSORS WHO HAVE THE PROBLEM, and they probably WON'T go after twink sites next; CCBill and Paycom have both backed away from extreme content (rape, torture, scat, etc) and those sorts of things, as Visa has said they won't process or the Justice department has indicated they are targeting those sites. CCBill and Paycom have never done anything to restrict marketing of twink sites.

And, in case you still don't get it, Paycom is no more or less "friendly" than CCBill; both the CCBill and Paycom compliance departments are simply reviewing a site to ensure that it meets Visa regulations, and Visa rules are exactly the same for Paycom and for CCBill. The both have their annoyances, but their compliance departments are there to ensure that when the site gets to Visa, it passes through compliance without a hitch.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I see that man, but with all respect that was not an answer. Why should I trust that I will not wake up one day and a hold will be placed on my account or the years I spend building up a URL will be wasted. I really just believe your service is on the edge with issues like this, and I do not want to be the first to fall off. Preempting possible rule chances are ok as a canary in the mine kinda thing, but not really what I want for a twink site. :baby:

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Wow Maxpower - You are as paraniod as hell - Hmm, what if in 5 years the word "sex" is banned.

What a silly thread you have started.

Maxpower, I can't see how you get anything done in a day. All you do is post on this board. It seems like most of the posts are from you and you reply to your own postings more then others reply.

Thanks to Boyfunk for explaining the CCbill process to me. That explains why I was continuing to get turned down even after making compliance changes to my site.
But, alas, I was finally approved by CCBill. I am still a little concerned, though.
I have Japanese style artwork on my website (Anime style). This style tends to have characters with huge eyes and small bodies. Also, with Gay couples, there is usually one large man and one small one.
CCBill said that some of these images looked like underage boys, because they were small.
I'm hoping this won't be a problem in the future, because I can't tell which ones they would think are underage and which ones they wouldn't. It's just not that obvious.
Anyway, do you suggest using both CCBill and Paycom?
Can you use two different companies at the same time?
Thanks,
azura blu