Here's an example of what we go through.
These are the (pg-rated) bloopers from our upcoming DVD "Twink Temptations." I guess having 2 out of 3 that can act isn't so bad...
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Here's an example of what we go through.
These are the (pg-rated) bloopers from our upcoming DVD "Twink Temptations." I guess having 2 out of 3 that can act isn't so bad...
that was fun :D
and am i ever glad i'm not shooting anything with a plot!! ;)
It's pretty funny sometimes. We did like 10 takes with a model who was supposed to give a "raised eyebrow" sort of snide aside look to the camera. Three different people demonstrated what it was supposed to look like, and he just couldn't get it.
Another guy was supposed to say "Oh really" and look at the camera sarcastically, and it took about 5 takes for that.
And most of these twinks are TOTALLY SILENT when having sex. It's amazing how much prompting and reminding it takes to get grunts and groans and heavy breathing. At one point I said to one guy "Could you at least *look* like you're enjoying it?"
We also had one guy who was the most lifeless bottom you've ever seen. We considered nominating him for AVN awards for "best performance in a non-sexual role" or marketing his scene in a necrophilia title....
Such is the life of a twink producer, I guess :)
yeah! I hear ya about the quiet ones-- and you'd think they're making more noise when they're having sex NOT in front of the camera. maybe they're just being respectful of the cameraman? (lol)
LOL so funny :D
are the bloopers actually on the dvd? (bonus material)?
Yup, actually there are about 10 minutes worth of bloopers, most of which are x-rated... so I didn't want to include them in the downloadable file... but they're on the DVD.
We're also in final discussions to add a very powerful short film, a story about a young guy remembering the night he contracted HIV, as a public service "extra" to our future DVDs.
It's perhaps a little risky/controversial, since it's sorta the opposite of what a porn video is supposed to do, but everyone that's seen the film has said it was very powerful and moving for them, and if it can serve as something that makes people think a little bit, then it's totally worth it.
i'd love to see it when things get worked out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyfunk
That's such a cool idea and a great thing to do!
Please tell us when you'll have made your decision, I'd love to hear about what kind of feedback you'll get from it!! :)
oh and, out of curiosity, what did you have in mind when you shot it? Did you wanted to include it in the DVD all along or it was a side-projet you wanted to use for other purpose (i.e. for a film festival, such as Outfest)?
That is a fantastic idea and a really great thing for your studio to do. I doubt viewers would appreciate it too much though, porn is an escape into fantasy, if they wanted the sad reality of a documentary they'd be watching one. I hope you share some of the feedback you get with us and I hope I'm proved way wrong.
About films with a "plot"; If the guys wouldn't be interesting without the plot, documentary style just being themselves, then no dialogue is going to help. It must be a problem with the hiring process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boyfunk
EXCELLENT! DO IT!Quote:
Originally Posted by boyfunk
We are filming a "PSA" to include on our future DVDs along with our standard "disclaimer" ... However, our biggest problem is with all of our "feed theaters" who eliminate our "blue card - warning/disclaimer messages" from running in front of our scenes - I guess that the deal there is that the message re: STDs kinda puts a wet blanket on the "turn on" factor...
That is definitely a concern of ours... we don't shoot bareback, so we don't feel the need to put the disclaimer video in front of the content (it will be on the "extras" page), but I still find it rather annoying that a PPV provider feels they have the right to alter a copyrighted work essentially without discussing it first with the producer/director.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
The short wasn't produced by us. It was made by a young filmmaker who I think is extraordinarily talented who is in his first year of film school. He was initially a little uncomfortable at the notion of his film (and his name) being associated with the porn industry, but we're going to include a short explanation in front of the film, and I think that it will both get the message out there and get him some additional exposure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billaboy
As soon as we have the deal inked, I'll put up a link to the film so y'all can see it.
Yes Boyfunk, I agree...
Theme, content aside, we devote time and energy to these details and feel that they reflect our overall intent and feeling...especially my titles and music tracks! - this is what separates us from others...
I guess that is why our Hard, Brick and Mortar DVD sales continue to remain strong and gradually build... just like muscles! People want all the good stuff that comes on a DVD.
When we go live with our very own theater, we will include everything!!! why not? (even the popcorn and sticky stuff on the floor!)
lol Chip, i WONDER where you got THAT idea from !
No, no, Zak... this is totally different from the HIV video project we still want to do.
We had no input at all in the concept, shooting, or production of this film at all... it was a film school project, originally shot on 16mm film. I just found it on somebody's Myspace, tracked down the guy who made it, and have been in discussions with him for a couple of months.
When we get things pinned down, I'll put up a link to it, and I think everyone will understand. It's a simple, powerful, artistic piece that conveys a message and kind of leaves an imprint that stays with you.
doesn't having a plot actually protect you if you get slammed with obsceinity by the feds?
Well, "protect" might be too strong a word, but since one of the 3 prongs of the Miller test is "Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" then anything you do to provide artistic or scientific value to the work as a whole would (or, to be precise, *should*) be a pretty strong defense.
Since all 3 parts of the Miller test have to be met in order for a work to be considered obscene, a work by definition cannot be obscene if it lacks any of the three prongs.
excellent idea. Thats such a noble thing for that guy to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by boyfunk
I dont think its a risky film at alll, I think your customers will seek out more of your videos as a way to say thank you for being responsible and getting a safe sex is hot sex message out there.
I love the bloopers that result from filming a movie with a plot, and we happily include them on the movie. "Ashton's Eleven" had some great bloopers. "Field of Creams" had so many bloopers we actually had to sift through the footage to pick out the best ones! They were hilarious! I think it was 18 hours of video for a 2 hour movie.
As an artist, I cannot make a porn without a plot. I won't compromise my integrity as an artist and film maker simply to make a quick buck.
Wait until our new movie, "The Dicks of Hazzard" comes out later this year... you will see what I am talking about.
Here's the current cover (pre PhotoShop on Brent's hair):
http://www.eonfilms.com/myspace/dicksofhazzard.jpg
I will always make movies with a plot.
Rocky
I don't think it's fair for you to say that. There are studios that just interview the men in their videos before the action starts, and I don't think they've comprimised their integrity, and I think the interviews can have more artistic value as a documentary than if the same guys were memorizing crappy dialogue and stupid facial expressions for "entertainment".Quote:
Originally Posted by EonFilms_Rocky
having a plot doesn't make something art. look at all the sitcoms and movies out there that have plots. some are as far from art as you can get.
i shoot videos without a plot and i'm proud to say that a couple of our last shoots ARE art - they are evocative, luminous. we made use of light to create a mood and to make things look beautiful, to show off the physiques of the models and even to play with light.
and i've seen some wonderful wonderful videos by many other people that didn't have plots but left you feeling not only horny but also a world of other things - and that's what art does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EonFilms_Rocky
I am not saying that companies out there are or are not artists or are compromising their integrity by shooting movies with no plot. I am simply saying that I, as an artistic person by nature, will not do it because I would consider MY PERSONAL ARTISTIC NATURE compromised by doing so. Much like I will not paint a picture simply because someone asks me to do it. This is not to say that other artists will not paint a commisione painting. DaVinci did it, and that does not make him any less of an artist. Michaelangelo was commissioned for the Cistine Chapel, and he unquestionably a great artist.
I am simply saying that I will not do it because the movie I make is my art, as much as a painting or a website I create is artwork.
Rocky
Reviewers like plots, fans like sex, directors like everything to work properly and on time, producers like to make $$$ not spend $$$ and "porn stars" hate dialogue, especially if it is difficult and complex as in a Paul Barresi film, for example...and God forbid "Q" cards with that man!
And, we know that some performers are naturally verbal, others are not and need to be coached... we even need to coach guys to make "noise" while slurping on cock! Has anyone ever tried dubbing or doing sound over of cock sucking sound? Now, we're talking finicky directing!
As a reviewer, I actually do not have a preference as to there being a "plot."
Movies that are all sex/no plot (the old phrase for this kind of movie is a loop film) are fine too.
I think the puzzlememt you get on the viewer's end is when they watch a movie that has all this spoken dialogue and extra scenes, but it comes off as so distractingly bad you wonder why they bothered.
I'll tell ya, if you are a filmmaker and you do not necessarily want to force your models to display their inner thespian abilities, consider this: Plotless movies are incredibly enhanced if there is a good setup.
What is that?
An example, MSR's Manhattan Sex Party is a simple orgy film shot on one single set. But the director did some really neat stuff to set everything up before plowing into the actual movie. During the opening credits, each model in their street clothes approached the camera one by one as his name was credited below. The model held a ticket/pass as if he was getting into a real event, and he was walking up to the box office.
Some models smiled broadly. Some looked serious. Some looked shy. Some looked really eager to get inside and started. The viewer got a little anticipation and capture of the guys who they are about to see unleashed onscreen.
And then the movie starts, and I think Manhattan Sex Party is one of the best "orgy flicks" around. Compare that to the recently released World Splash Orgy 2005 from All Worlds, which unfortunately comes across as a busy, crowded set of individuals where nothing remarkable really gets through or stands out.... kind of like the 1980's We Are The World music video.
That's the kind of touch I am talking about when I suggest that a movie, although it's all sex/no plot, can really be enhanced with "setep" It doesn't have to be an orgy film... any film. To get to the top of the mountain there are many different possible roads.
Steve
We almost always have some type of "set-up"...
We're working from our frame of reference...the 70's and (earlier)
I've coined the phrase "situation sex" for most all of our flicks...you know, encounters of the sexual kind...
My process when it comes to films is to, first, create a premise. This is usually pretty simple, as we tend to lampoon Hollywood movies (IE "Ashton's Eleven", "Field of Creams", "The Dicks of Hazzard"... you get the idea). Once a premise is established, I write a script. I work the sex into the script so that it isn't cheesy. There is always a biz of cheese when it comes to random sex in a movie, even in theatrical films, but I do my best to make the sex incidental. There is the realm of possibility that the scenario could happen. Not along the lines of "Hi, did you order a pizza?" "Yes, come on in while I get some money" - cue funky bass line "bwam chica waa waa" music.
Once the script is done an the story is laid out, I do a rewrite to find any plot holes and make sure the plot fits the movie. It has to have character development and the dialogue needs to remain energetic. Stale dialogue brings everybody down and slows the film (porn or not) to a sluggish crawl. Once the scenes are established, I find the music to accompany them. I usually use FreePlayMusic.com. They are relatively inexpensive and have easily downloadable forms for licensing records. I have also recently come across Music4xxxcom. They are doing the parody theme song for "The Dicks of Hazzard". For the music on each scene, I am once again using FreePlayMusic.com.
After the music is picked, then I begin storyboarding. The reason I storyboard after I pick the music is so I can plan the action and camera angles around the flow of the movie. Each scene is storyboarded so that when it comes time to shoot, I do not spend all day reshooting the same scene multiple times to get better angles. The action stays fresh. As a sidenote, when I write the sex into the movie, the scene simply says "AD LIB SEX." I do not dialogue the actual moaning and groaning and "oh fuck me's." I want to keep it real.
After music, I begin casting. Casting is difficult and I use a number of sources for it, from ads on Criagslist to agencies. Once we have casting, I create a budget for the movie and (according to everyone's availability) I create a shooting schedule. A typical shoot takes five to ten days, then it is off to editing. I also submit storyboards with my tapes to the editor, so that he knows how I want the movie set up with music cues and dialogue. After I get the final edit back, I send the film to IDM for replication, authoring and printing. Once I receive the final product, the movie goes to the distributor (who I am proud to announce, Eon Films is now with D&E Productions).
And there you have it. From conception to filming to the market. That's how I do a movie.
:-)
Rocky
Hey! What are you saying about pizza delivery scenes! After shooting some 250 scenes, we decided we had to do one... and it's on our recent title "Sticky Situations"... it's tongue in cheek, and we've gotten lots of good comments on it, 'cause our audience gets and appreciates the humor. So be careful whom you're slamming here :P :Quote:
Originally Posted by EonFilms_Rocky
Yikes! I don't consider $300 for 4 minutes of music to be cheap!Quote:
I usually use FreePlayMusic.com. They are relatively inexpensive and have easily downloadable forms for licensing records.
http://freeplaymusic.com/licensing/ratecard.php
But I gotta say... you probably put a lot more time and effort into production than the majority of studios do. Whether, at the end of the day, the audience understands and appreciates it is hard to tell... our experience is that the audience is way more concerned about the sex than any of the subtlety, and we could probably get away with even less than we do as far as editing and post, but I do believe that having pride in your product is a wonderful thing :)
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This is a very interesting Read and I'm really enjoying this thread regarding plots, acting, no-plots...etc. Oh! by the way...just wanted to say hello to everyone :groovy:
Everyone has there own style and being in the DVD production and distribution end of this business I find that most guys prefer somekind of set-up as desslock mentions. It can be a few lines or a great set-up, just as long as the viewer has somekind of idea what the video is going to be about, its all about fantasy. The most important part of the whole video is to make sure that you have hot attractive guys with really hot camera angles to show-off every sexual move and activity, if a viewer doesn't like the acting or the set-up 90% of the time, they fast foward to the action scene or to there favorite scene and enjoy the entertainment. However, for some reason, if you just do a video with all action with no plot or set-up then the video doesn't make sense to the viewer :frown:
With that being said, we all have our own style/niche and that is a great thing because if we all filmed the same, and did the same thing...it would be boring and nobody would be able to sell videos. Variety is the spice of life!!!
Enjoy watching.....and keep jerkin!!!
-David
D&E Productions