Why aren't we marching in the streets?

I know this is long. But please take some time to read it. I'm mad as hell an I'm not going to take it anymore!!

With the endless scandals, political corruption, unjust war(s) and lies from our government, why aren't we marching in the streets? Haven't we had enough yet?!

Is it because we don't have enough time to grasp all of the details of a scandal before another even nastier one comes along? For example, we were just starting to understand the Valerie Plame CIA outing scandal then the Jack Abramhoff scandal comes along, then the immigration debate takes over. Now we find out courtesy of USA Today, that if we have SBC/ATT, Verizon or Bell South phone service, the government has a record of EVERY SINGLE PHONE CALL YOU'VE MADE SINCE 9/11. Not to mention the dozens of stories of corruption and lies that fell between these important events.

OH! Don't forget the new tax breaks for the rich. They are going to need those huge tax breaks to pay for the ever increasing price of oil/gas to keep their humongous SUVs on the road.

Katrina... do you remember that disgraceful moment in history? Surprise! Good ol' Brownie took the brunt on that one. Was he to blame? Oh sure, he wasn't qualified for his position. But the blame for that disaster goes all the way to top, with many stops along the way. Will anyone EVER have to answer for the dreadful inaction that caused 1600 deaths? Are you kidding me? Despite all of the misery caused by that awful act of nature someone managed to profit from disaster. And you can follow the dollar all the way to the top on this one too. No bid contracts and cronyism made many friends of Bush/Cheney even richer while our BILLIONS of tax dollars were squandered, pilfered and wasted on ineffective solutions to the problems. And still thousands suffer like citizens of a 3rd world country wracked by natural diaster.

The media... oh the dreadful media, they just skim over the stories like we couldn't possibly understand the complexities. Just hang another shiny "missing white girl story" in front of our faces instead and we'll forget everything else. SHAME ON THEM!

Hey! Did you know that we have 2 wars going on? It's easy to forget since we are barely reminded of that fact. We are fighting the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them here. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT! Don't we all believe by now that the ONLY reason why our soldiers are in Iraq is to enrich cronies of this administration?

Iran. Oh god, didn't we make this mistake already? Shouldn't we find the real enemy first before we make up new ones? Where the FUCK is Osama bin Laden! I still want him brought to justice for the 3,000 he murdered on 9/11. Then I want Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Powell brought to justice for the murder of 2,434 American soldiers and countless innocent Iraqi's.

We all love America because of our freedom but if you haven't noticed... WE ARE NO LONGER FREE! Why do we care about the spread of freedom in other lands when we no longer have it at home? Agents from our government can break into your house for NO reason, detain you INDEFINITLY in a foreign land, provide you with no counsel and allow you no communication with the outside world. Don't we invade sovereign nations for just these reason? Right or wrong? Our government does this in the name of "The Patriot Act". Ironic huh? They say they are protecting us from terrorists. REALLY? Then why are our borders and ports so porous? If you were president after 9/11, wouldn't your first priority be to secure our borders and ports?

Now we have mid-term elections coming up in November. Do you think voters will remember the last 6 years of misery and despair when they go to the polls? Probably not. The evil Republican party will bring up old favorite topics, gay marriage, gun control, porn and abortion, to distract the brainwashed masses. Expect your normal, healthy, happy lifestyle to be vilified and demonized once again. This of course will bring the ignorant and frightened out to the polls in record numbers to keep the real evil people in control.


Unfortunately, I have no answers, just questions. My only hope is that the masses come out of their fear induced comas and take to the streets in massive numbers and take our country back... NOW!

Because we still have a few months left until Pride starts LOL

Seriously though, im really suprised we havent seen a lot more protesting being done and, to top it all off, i just heard that the Democrats arent even going to push for impeachments because.. Get this... The Republicans wont like it, i mean WTF? :eek:

We desperatly need more than 2 parties to run in the next election.

Regards,

Lee

***DISCLAIMER - THE FOLLOWING IS BASSCHICK'S OPINION - IT DOES NOT REFLECT THE FEELINGS OR OPINIONS OF ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD***

most of the people i know who used to be very politically active now vent on the internet. they explode,showing their righteous anger, and then they feel better because they got it out of their system. it takes the average person a lot of motivation to really get out there.

i'm going to meet an old friend for dinner in a few minutes who used to be out there protesting and organizing - she's a member of NOW and supports ACLU and lots of other orgs. but she mostly posts and signs internet petitions now. and according to several politicians i have heard back from, emails don't have the same weight in their offices as actual mail nor do internet petitions have the same weight as actual hard petitions.

you just made a very angry post. are you finding protests to march in, sending letters to politicians and are you organizing a march or a strike?

and keep in mind that the average person believes what he/she reads in the news and on the web. half the people i know - not friends but neighbors, owners of businesses i do business with, etc - don't even KNOW about most of the stuff we know about. they only know a little of it.

heck, on this board i posted once that the number one cause of deaths in pregnant women was murder by significant other, and that the superbowl is the number one day for wife abuse. and someone here said they thought that was old news and no longer true - but it IS still true. basically most people only stay involved in what is of most personal interest to themselves directly. even though all these things are interrelated. you can't have rights, freedom and protection for some - it's all or none. there is no issue that doesn't relate to us all.

forums and blogs have made most of us into keyboard warriors, and it doesn't appear keyboard warriors are very threatening. the internet, even more than television, has given us a forum and taken away our motivation and thus our visibility. no one has to worry about "we, the people" anymore, because most of us will be staying home typing.

just my opinion based on several years of concern and observation.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Seriously though, im really suprised we havent seen a lot more protesting being done and, to top it all off, i just heard that the Democrats arent even going to push for impeachments because.. Get this... The Republicans wont like it, i mean WTF? :eek:

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The democrats have no power in Congress because of the republican majority. They can only make noise, they can't actually do anything productive. They aren't even allowed to form an official commitee to investigate any of these scandals. They don't even have the luxury of Independent Counsel investigations like the Monica & Bill and Whitewater investigations. A Republican controlled Congress voted out that act in 1999.

And to think Clinton was impeached just for receiving a blowjob and lying about it. And Bush has never even been censured.

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Originally Posted by Lee

We desperatly need more than 2 parties to run in the next election.

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I agree. As much as I'm disgusted by republicans, I'm not so sure that the democrats have the answers either. Just the other day, DNC leader Howard Dean reaffirmed the democratic parties stand on gay marriage... they're against it. It seems that as the republicans move further and further to the right the democrats just follow them. It's almost like today's democratic leaders are the same as pre-Reagan era republicans. Where are the liberal leaders like the late, great Paul Wellstone?

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Originally Posted by basschick

you just made a very angry post. are you finding protests to march in, sending letters to politicians and are you organizing a march or a strike?

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I live in Dallas. The only protests I'm going to find are against abortion, gay marriage and immigration reform. ;)

I do donate to HRC and the ACLU and the few politicians that I think can make a difference.

Yes, yes, yes...

The world we live in is truly nuts and made only more so by those elected officials whose opinions flow this way and that like a blade of grass in the wind so to speak!

One of my biggest problems is with the lack of enthusiasm from the "anti" whatever movements...

The last time I tried to attend and "anti-war" protest in LA, I got caught in traffic and, like everyone else, couldn't park anywhere close enough to "walk" to the "march" !!!

Now, back to the olden days of the 60's and 70's - when I attended a hundred plus marches on Washington...we didn't care what we looked like, what we smelled like, where we slept (often, next to the reflecting pool at the Lincoln Memorial) what we ate, if anything, etc. - but we marched and gathered and had our voices in mass - AND, we scared the shit out of Nixon and, had him thrown out of office...now there's something to be proud of!

Flash back to the present - why the "fxck" can't we get our shit together to start impeaching this guy? What's the problem?

We are able to de-throne the governor of our fair and golden state of California and replace him with a steroid crazy, Hummer driving, gun slingin' movie star but, we can't get our collective shit together to do anything with that big, bag of xc879%6 that lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue???!?!?!?

Uh oh, shouldn't have written that…I think someone's hacked into my computer again and ooops, can see the Beverly Hills Police coming up the walk...got to go...

Tune into your GPS TV station to see me runnin' down the alley behind our place...kinda reminds me of that scene in Ferinheit 451, when the "fake/stunt" Montag is running from the cops and is gunned down on TV as all of the "cousins" watch with satisfaction...

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Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo

Uh oh, shouldn't have written that…I think someone's hacked into my computer again and ooops, can see the Beverly Hills Police coming up the walk...got to go...

Tune into your GPS TV station to see me runnin' down the alley behind our place...kinda reminds me of that scene in Ferinheit 451, when the "fake/stunt" Montag is running from the cops and is gunned down on TV as all of the "cousins" watch with satisfaction...

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That would be funny if it wasn't so close to the truth. ;)

i read on a couple news sites (i go to cnn, yahoo news and reuters) that the movement to impeach grey davis was funded by a republican although not fronted by him. so we can't really take credit for it - and we did end up with a republican gov, terminator or not.

I dunno, it doesnt bother me that much. I think were pretty lucky to live in America when you consider what some other people have to go through in other countries.

My mother knows a woman who lived in some village in Asia or something years ago and men would go around with newspapers and ask regular people on the street to read something from the newspaper to them, and youd have to pretend you didnt know how to read because if you did youd be followed home and killed for being too smart.

Look what kids in Uganda have to go through. They can only go out at night and thats to travel to get away from the killers who go around at night to kill and rape kids. Forcing some kids to shoot and kill their own parents then turn them into slaves.
Its a genocide of children over there.

While our children draw pics of their families and homes with a smiley sun in the sky, this is what kids in Uganda draw:
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages

It makes me mad that we go to "help the people of Iraq and free them" when the people in Uganda REALLY DO need help desperately and it would take no time or effort, but we dont help them much.

I thought it sucks that gay people cant get married in America, then I saw pictures of a gay man in Iran who was whipped repeatedly just because he's gay, his back looked like hamburger. I see a lot of profiles from men online who live in the middle east and cant show their faces in their profiles because homosexuality is a crime.

So I feel that were lucky to be here. If some ancient bible preacher on tv wants to tell me that Im going to hell while asking old people to send him money, he's just an annoying but harmless poodle compared to the killers that people have to deal with in other countries, and the fear people have to live with.

Everything isnt always going to be perfect, but you can do the best you can.
Just think, 2 more years of this and hopefully we'll have bluer skies and calmer nerves.

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Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo

Now, back to the olden days of the 60's and 70's - when I attended a hundred plus marches on Washington...we didn't care what we looked like, what we smelled like, where we slept (often, next to the reflecting pool at the Lincoln Memorial) what we ate, if anything, etc. - but we marched and gathered and had our voices in mass - AND, we scared the shit out of Nixon and, had him thrown out of office...now there's something to be proud of!

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So now I'm quoting myself, but found this photo and couln't resist - the peacenick, hippie, Tony from yonder days long gone, when marches and rallys and things made sense... Anthony DeAngelo age 20, Lafayette Park, D.C.

(Cam, please don't kill me for this!)

apathy.........

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Originally Posted by basschick

i read on a couple news sites (i go to cnn, yahoo news and reuters) that the movement to impeach grey davis was funded by a republican although not fronted by him. so we can't really take credit for it - and we did end up with a republican gov, terminator or not.

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You know I've read all these comments about your governor in California.
Let me say that I never understood why that ballot proposition last year to change how redistricting in California would be drawn failed.

I read right here that everyone is basically upset with Congress, and how they feel members of Congress are not held accountable. I wonder why?

As it is now - they can be Republicans like David Drier or Democrats like Nancy Pelosi, but members of Congress once elected are safe there until they grow senile.... and beyond. Now the very few exceptions are Gary Condit or Randy Cunningham who really get involved in graft or other crimes.

Last year's proposal would have taken drawing congressional districts in California out of the hands of the legislators, to a bipartisan appointed board. (Iowa and Washington state do this now). The Governor supported it, while the unions and other usual suspects opposed it, and the measure ultimately failed.

That really would have potentially made elections for Congress there much more competitive, and you guys really would have been able to exercize more democratic voice.

I honestly never understood this. Rather then awakening one day with an angry "throw the bastards out" fit, that was a serious structural proposal.

There used to be a day when legislators could be defeated just becasue they stopped representing their constituents.... and it didn't have to be only because they were in a dibilitating scandal.

If you see some political pundit listing out competitive House elections this November, you will see races in Iowa, where actually they have competitive elections. And also there they've ended up with some Republicans who are social moderates and some Democrats who lean more socialy conservative. You don't have this set of bipolar elected officials where they are all either waaaaaay right wingers or waaaaaay left wingers, with this huge chasm in between.

We can fight over this policy measure, or that policy measure, but that was a serious missed opportunity.

Steve

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Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo

So now I'm quoting myself, but found this photo and couln't resist - the peacenick, hippie, Tony from yonder days long gone, when marches and rallys and things made sense... Anthony DeAngelo age 20, Lafayette Park, D.C.

(Cam, please don't kill me for this!)

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I was probably AT that protest at Lafayette Park in 1974 LOL. I went to a lot of them then, and I looked like even more of a hippie than you do in that pic... John Lennon glasses, earth shoes, and hair down to my ass. Only the hair part has really changed, I guess :)

I am in complete agreement with XStr8Guy. And I'm sad to admit that the solution that AJ and I have been discussing is to very seriously consider moving outside the US. It's not just the current administration... I am totally disgusted by how this people in this country have in the last 10-15 years become completely steamrolled not just by corrupt politicians, but by corrupt corporations.

Every day I am disgusted by what big corporations get away with. I'm talking banks, telecom and Internet providers, large retailers, credit card issuers, Microsoft... they are all greedy, corrupt as hell, and have intentionally rigged their policies to rip off as many people as possible. And while a large part of that is multinational, there are many other countries that have much stronger controls in place that prohibit a lot of what is standard procedure here.

Would I get out and take action? Yes. The problem is, it's hard to get people to take action when they do so and little happens. Look at the WORLDWIDE protests against the war in Iraq. Unprecedented. Never have so many people, worldwide, gotten out and physically stood and said "NO!" And it did no good.

And you have an incredible number of losers out there who apparently lack even the most basic critical thinking skills, and all they care about is "He seems like a nice man, and he goes to church, so I'll vote for him" or "He's against abortion, so I'll vote for him." WTF are these people thinking?

I am totally down for starting/participating in/supporting any actions toward making the government accountable and taking control of the country back from the big corporations who own all of the politicians. But how to do it is the question.

California is a hugely diverse state. And, with all of the industries and special interest groups here, it is no wonder that the state has lots of problems.

Our economy is gigantic, and powered by two centers, one in the north and one in the south. These two centers remain "islands" of liberals (mostly) while the rest of the state dread getting within hundreds of miles of our two rival city borders.

It's truly amazing that anything ever gets done here. (sometmes it doesn't)

Throw in an earthquake or fire disaster here and there and we've got even more problems...

Our former governor, Jerry Brown, now mayor of Oakland, is now running for Attorney General. Jerry's father, Pat Brown, ruled the state...like the Kennedy family rules Massachusetts...and like the Duponts rule Delaware. Governor Arnie is now married into the Kennedy family and…is this beginning to sound like Peyton Place, Dynasty ??? Do people care anymore about integrity or stardom and fame???

How do Californians feel about Arnold? Will he get reelected?
I dont know if he's loved or hated in the state.

People here are very out of it and can be total dings...Arnie got himself elected...most people love celebrity, especially if the actor can talk and deliver a message...look at Reagan for Christ's sake...they named a fucking airport after him, a freeway, and a new medical complex at UCLA! and he wasn't even a good actor (on film)!

Arnie is doing all the "right" things now - leading up to the election - he's got his Hummer outfitted to run on "the right type of fuel" and a muti gazillion dollar infra-structure ballot measure - Meanwhile, Maria is staying cool and doing all the right things. They are a cute family - their rich, powerful, famous, charming and "interesting" which is good charisma in the politics biz…

Personally, I love Arnie for who he is and admire him for what he has done with his life - he's probably a great daddy - gotta love a cigar smokin' man!

We both like big muscle guys, Gold's Gym, the Venice Beach, San Francisco, Mendocino, Sonoma goat cheese, the wine country, Big Sur, Lake Tahoe, Disneyland, the California life style and love being able to "make it" here - I even saw some nudie photos he did - got to love him for that…

But all said, I didn't vote for him and won't in the next election. But then, I'm not your average Californian.

Alright boys! How did this turn into a California thread? Lol. There are 49 other states in the Union, you know. ;)

Marc, just because someone else has it worse elsewhere doesn't make it good by comparison. less bad does not equal good. that's like saying having 2 small meals per day and being hungry is not a problem because some people have only one meal or don't eat every day.

our constitution is a rockin' document and our own government and lawmakers are trying to completely bypass it. that's not okay with me, and it appears it's not okay with a lot of people. but most people can't even bother to phone their duly elected reps and tell them. if our own lawmakers and the people whose JOB it is is to protect our rights fail to do so, things will get worse.

the truth is our congresspeople, senators, and other reps want to be re-elected or to rise even higher as politicians. if we let them know we will not vote for them if they support illegal acts against the constitution, they will vote on issues in the way that is most likely to get them votes later. we DO have the power - as a group - but only if we USE the power.

btw, i know some pretty liberal thinkers in dallas. there can be groups and meetings there, but it may take time to find the people and get things going. but if you're really angry, that time and effort would be well spent. you can also call or write to your elected officials, send checks to ACLU and other organizations and so on. there are things people can do in EVERY state - even if it's to send a few checks to the right place and link people on boards to important political issues and inform them on important issues.

i once got over 40 people who were going to vote for ross perot to vote for bill clinton. sure, 40 people isn't a ton but it's pretty good for one little me. two of them that i know of convinced their friends and so on.

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Originally Posted by Marc

I dunno, it doesnt bother me that much. I think were pretty lucky to live in America when you consider what some other people have to go through in other countries.

My mother knows a woman who lived in some village in Asia or something years ago and men would go around with newspapers and ask regular people on the street to read something from the newspaper to them, and youd have to pretend you didnt know how to read because if you did youd be followed home and killed for being too smart.

Look what kids in Uganda have to go through. They can only go out at night and thats to travel to get away from the killers who go around at night to kill and rape kids. Forcing some kids to shoot and kill their own parents then turn them into slaves.
Its a genocide of children over there.

While our children draw pics of their families and homes with a smiley sun in the sky, this is what kids in Uganda draw:
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages
http://www.theirc.org/resources/draw...ame=otherPages

It makes me mad that we go to "help the people of Iraq and free them" when the people in Uganda REALLY DO need help desperately and it would take no time or effort, but we dont help them much.

I thought it sucks that gay people cant get married in America, then I saw pictures of a gay man in Iran who was whipped repeatedly just because he's gay, his back looked like hamburger. I see a lot of profiles from men online who live in the middle east and cant show their faces in their profiles because homosexuality is a crime.

So I feel that were lucky to be here. If some ancient bible preacher on tv wants to tell me that Im going to hell while asking old people to send him money, he's just an annoying but harmless poodle compared to the killers that people have to deal with in other countries, and the fear people have to live with.

Everything isnt always going to be perfect, but you can do the best you can.
Just think, 2 more years of this and hopefully we'll have bluer skies and calmer nerves.

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Originally Posted by basschick

Marc, just because someone else has it worse elsewhere doesn't make it good by comparison. less bad does not equal good. that's like saying having 2 small meals per day and being hungry is not a problem because some people have only one meal or don't eat every day.

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Thank you for taking that one! I was flabbergasted by Marc's response and didn't know how to respond. I couldn't have said it better!

But I do fear that Marc's opinion is quite common. So many Americans think everything is fine just because their immediate surroundings haven't drastically changed. I'm ok so you must be ok too. ;)

Btw, I do contibute to HRC and the ACLU and a few candidates.

And you forgot the 3rd war that is going on.

The War on Porn.

Following the details behind the news stories more and more people are having search warrents served on them and computers taken because they MAY have porn on them and of that porn SOME MAY be child porn. no evidence needed more that a whispered word or a suspision now can get you a visit from the DOJ. and then you sit in a jial cell while they get around to actually looking though your stuff to see if anything IS there or not.

Scarey times, gentlemen, scarey times.

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And to think Clinton was impeached just for receiving a blowjob and lying about it. And Bush has never even been censured.

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You are so right on Xstr8guy. The real problem I see is that the democrats are just a bunch of wimps with no front man like Clinton to lead them. The recent statement by Howard Dean that 'democrats believe marriage is between a man and a woman' was a real let down. As much as I dislike the republicans, the reason they have done so well is because they stick up for their issues, as bloody wrong as most of them are. The democratic party in the US is more conservative then many 'right wing' parties in other countries.

There really needs to be a leader or spokesman to come out with the balls to say things how they really are. That's what would really win the support of the people, even if people didn't agree with everything I think they'd be happy with some one that really speaks their heart, and maybe they could even change some ignorant people's minds on some our core issues.

Well, all I can say is I'm glad I don't live there anymore. Where I live they just ousted the prime minister due to corruption scandals, you should have seen it, the whole city was nearly shut down due to the so many people protesting. People did that in the US in the 60's, but I think it's like Basschick said, now people think they are actually doing something by typing emails. I think although the new generation may be connected to the Internet, they've become more disconnected from society and each other.

In case, you missed it... there is a poll in this thread. Please participate. :thumbsup:

there are??? really?

;)

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Alright boys! How did this turn into a California thread? Lol. There are 49 other states in the Union, you know. ;)

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Well today I worked as an election judge for Austin's city elections today. I'm happy to say that ballot prop 6 to extend domestic partner benefits to gay city employees passed easily. This is a sweet victory, because the same measure lost dramatically ten years ago.

I think once again it shows the kind of progress we are making. I'm sorry if some of you feel everything is going to Hell in a handbasket. If you think the world needs changing, don't wail at the masses who you perjoratively see as apathetic and/or stupid.

If you want some political change, look around, assess your abilities, and do stuff. For me, my twenties where spent doing things like working to pass the hate crimes bill in texas, get our sodomy law eliminated, sue the republican party of texas for discrimination, talk about gay rights on the local news in my hometown of D/FW where my high school teachers subsequently found me and thanked me for what i'm doing, etc.

Doing stuff politically can be a lot of fun, thrilling at times, and a very important civic duty.

If you give money to HRC than that's great. I personally believe that they are a multimillion dollar racket... but hey they know how to coax out the cash by scaring people. And that's just my opinon... I have many friends, especially in Dallas who drop hundreds of dollars for the Black Tie Dinner in Dallas, which is a humongous cash cow for that organization.

If you want to do something for gay rights, go for it. Honestly for me now after years of that, and now in this business, I've become much more interested in first amendment issues.

If you want to do something, I'd suggest at the very first to pick your fights.

Steve

PS: I think the Republicans are going to have a very tough November. Unfortunately on issues like porn, 2257 and the Internet, I'm not so sure you'll find the politics of Democrats much better. Other industries have advocacy organizations to help in this area however.

oh and out of that long winded spiel, my suggestion is that for me I have been satisfied by looking to local things in my local area and or maybe in the state. There's lots of ways to make a difference in stuff.

Just my two cents.