How much content is necessary to have on a niche paysite?

Whats the right amount of content to have in a members area when microniching?

say I have a site thats about redheaded twinks which is a pretty tight niche (I think).
How many sets do I need to make it worth for a member to be glad they signed up and stay signed up?

I mean when you do tightly defined niches then the content is hard to find. So if I have 10 galleries with redhead twinks, and then the rest of the site is just generic filler content, is that bad?

Should I wait until I find 40 sets of redheaded twinks before I launch a site about it? Then I may never find enough and never launch.

If I joined a site and only got 10 sets of what I joined for, I'd be pissed. I think 40-50 would be better, but even then, the surfer's going to burn through it pretty quick.

Michael

On Condom Cash i try to launch the site with a minimum of 50 niche specific sets that are 'active' in the members area with another 30 or so sets as 'updates' in the system.

Every couple of weeks ill add new sets so that there is always between 20-30 sets worth of update content available, about 1-2 months worth of updates, with 1 update happening each week.

In addition, instead of just using regular 'filler' content i link to specific niches so for example, the Only Bears members area also links to some of the content inside Mature Dudes, Retro Male, Rodeo Raunch, Tattooed Guys.

Thats just on the image side of things, for the movies, i throw in as many as i can find for the niche and link to a good 60% of the remaining movie content inside our CMS database.

Regards,

Lee

If the content is purchased: I'd think 50 - 100 sets and around 8 video scenes (not full dvd's) would be a good start, and if you can match up and add some feeds that fit the niche, all the better - if you can afford to add them when you first launch that is.

If the content/model is EXCLUSIVE, you can probably get away with less.

You can also do a bonus section of galleries that at least fits your age/body type of the micro niche. So if the site is about redhead twinks - you could have some bonus galleries of twinks - of any hair color. Just putting in any style of gay porn I think wouldn't be the best of ideas, as most guys looking for twinks aren't going to be all that thrilled to see 150 bonus sets of hairy bears for instance.

And don't overlook the upsell to PPV - often times you can directly link to a specific dvd, and if you know of several that have red headed twinks do up a page with a screencap, some hot talk and a "view it now" type link.

To be honest retention is going down. When you do microniche its tough. The good part (and the only real option) is to not offer a trial. They will pay to join.

But remember just because they like redheads doesnt mean they dont like others. Just keep it remotely the same.

And a point that needs to be stressed is videos. Surfers really need videos.

If you are seriously thinking about a site with 10 sets, why not do a decent design and go AVS. Add upsells, like PPV, video sales, personals, and all that. Just make it nice. Grow the site and market it like a paysite.

I once put up a site for Mansites much like what you are doing in a niche (a different one) and made 300 sales. That's 6,000 in about 6 months. Much less hassle than a paysite and much cheaper as well.

I see so many small paysites out there that I feel could make more money as an AVS.

And if you keep updating and stress that on the tours you will get people interested and coming back. Eventually you may have enough content and feel for the niche to make it a paysite.

imo you need at least 50 pic set and 20 video scenes. Minimum. I'd personally go with closer to 50 vids. Keep in mind you are competing with sites like www.redheadguys.com where the surfer not only gets access to all their members area content, but complete access to all of www.badpuppy.com content as well as all of their feature contributors like www.puppypass.com and www.clubamateurusa.com members area. (some of which are 100% exclusive) Literally hundreds of hours of video and like 500,000 pics. All for $24.95

Hope this helps. --Chubbs

how long are the videos? how cute are the models? is this bought or exclusive content?

IF you are creating a paysite. I would say at a minimum you need 5 exclusive models with decent videos. Think Sean Cody quality. Fuck DRM. Plus some non exclusive sets. Then, you really need to add one exclusive model a week. Break it up in two parts. Put the pics up then a few days later put the vids up, so you have two updates a week. Someone who may want to cancel may see the pics of a model he likes and wait for the videos. But it can work the otherway and he not like the pics and cancel. So, YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR MEMBERS WANT. Create a community. Talk to them. Put in a blog. BOND with them. Don't make it a cookie cutter site like so many of them are. Make sure you post upcoming models.

PS. I NEED TO VENT! I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR SITES TO MARKET. WHAT IS UP WITH THESE TOUR PAGES THAT ARE SMALLER THAN PYTHON'S FPA'S (which work well for me). I MEAN IS IT LAZINESS? Hire a designer, give him a template, same text, just different colors and pics. GOD, SOME TOURS I HAVE MEMORIZED!!!!!

Actually, this got me thinking about my final paysite hotasianboy.com that closed about 10 months ago to new members. Right now it has NOT been updated since then. But, it has about 50% of it's member base when it closed 10 months ago.

What keeps the members is the live 24/7 webcam w/ j/o shows. So, maybe whatever niche you are doing if you do something like that it adds value.

Just my thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

On Condom Cash i try to launch the site with a minimum of 50 niche specific sets that are 'active' in the members area with another 30 or so sets as 'updates' in the system.

Every couple of weeks ill add new sets so that there is always between 20-30 sets worth of update content available, about 1-2 months worth of updates, with 1 update happening each week.

In addition, instead of just using regular 'filler' content i link to specific niches so for example, the Only Bears members area also links to some of the content inside Mature Dudes, Retro Male, Rodeo Raunch, Tattooed Guys.

Thats just on the image side of things, for the movies, i throw in as many as i can find for the niche and link to a good 60% of the remaining movie content inside our CMS database.

Regards,

Lee

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Thanks a lot Lee, thats the formula I was looking for.
I really appreciate it. And your sites are well niched too.

Do the customers even care about pictures, or do they usually just go right to the movies?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bec

If the content is purchased: I'd think 50 - 100 sets and around 8 video scenes (not full dvd's) would be a good start, and if you can match up and add some feeds that fit the niche, all the better - if you can afford to add them when you first launch that is.

If the content/model is EXCLUSIVE, you can probably get away with less.

You can also do a bonus section of galleries that at least fits your age/body type of the micro niche. So if the site is about redhead twinks - you could have some bonus galleries of twinks - of any hair color. Just putting in any style of gay porn I think wouldn't be the best of ideas, as most guys looking for twinks aren't going to be all that thrilled to see 150 bonus sets of hairy bears for instance.

And don't overlook the upsell to PPV - often times you can directly link to a specific dvd, and if you know of several that have red headed twinks do up a page with a screencap, some hot talk and a "view it now" type link.

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thnks for your formula too Bed. Thats great advice, esp about adding a bonus section

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

To be honest retention is going down. When you do microniche its tough. The good part (and the only real option) is to not offer a trial. They will pay to join.

But remember just because they like redheads doesnt mean they dont like others. Just keep it remotely the same.

And a point that needs to be stressed is videos. Surfers really need videos.

If you are seriously thinking about a site with 10 sets, why not do a decent design and go AVS. Add upsells, like PPV, video sales, personals, and all that. Just make it nice. Grow the site and market it like a paysite.

I once put up a site for Mansites much like what you are doing in a niche (a different one) and made 300 sales. That's 6,000 in about 6 months. Much less hassle than a paysite and much cheaper as well.

I see so many small paysites out there that I feel could make more money as an AVS.

And if you keep updating and stress that on the tours you will get people interested and coming back. Eventually you may have enough content and feel for the niche to make it a paysite.

---

I thought Microniching would keep retention UP, since there are so few sites dealing with the microniching.

If Im into redhead twinks and find a redheaded twink site, then to me it would be like finding a pot of gold.
I think, lol.

I've made some avs sites with lots of video content but haven't done well with them. I dont really understand them.
They dont give you any content and they dont host for you. All they do is process for you, as far as I'm aware.
If Im wrong tell me how you can make money with AVS because I dont know how.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chubbs

imo you need at least 50 pic set and 20 video scenes. Minimum. I'd personally go with closer to 50 vids. Keep in mind you are competing with sites like www.redheadguys.com where the surfer not only gets access to all their members area content, but complete access to all of www.badpuppy.com content as well as all of their feature contributors like www.puppypass.com and www.clubamateurusa.com members area. (some of which are 100% exclusive) Literally hundreds of hours of video and like 500,000 pics. All for $24.95

Hope this helps. --Chubbs

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thanks. I dont know if Im competing with anyone. I think people buy a membership based on the niche and/or seeing that ONE guy on the site that they have to get more of.

I dont think surfers will look at my site and then look at puppypass and compare. I think its a trigger on a site that urges them to buy a membership so they get more of the one model they want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

how long are the videos? how cute are the models? is this bought or exclusive content?

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Id love to show you if youre still consulting.
This site Im doing is based on the idea that *you* gave me : )
and I think its a great idea and advice you gave me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc

Thanks a lot Lee, thats the formula I was looking for.
I really appreciate it. And your sites are well niched too.

Do the customers even care about pictures, or do they usually just go right to the movies?

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No probs Marc :)

Judging by the stats im seeing, its a pretty even mix between image and pic usage right now across all 24 sites.

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

No probs Marc :)

Judging by the stats im seeing, its a pretty even mix between image and pic usage right now across all 24 sites.

Regards,

Lee

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I wonder if in your case its because theyre on dialup connections, or they just want pictures.

I had a poll on my site once and asked the surfers if they preferred pics or videos, and I was totally suprised that it was split right down the middle, half wanted video and half pics.
I was expecting like 90% wanted more video and 10% would want pics, lol
The picture people said theyre on dialup connections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc

Should I wait until I find 40 sets of redheaded twinks before I launch a site about it? Then I may never find enough and never launch.

---

See, this is what I am talking about when I mention retention. If you say you may never launch until you find 40 sets, how long do you think a member will stay a member if you can't even get 40 sets?

From what I have been hearing retention in general is down across the board. There is just an influx of gay sites.

Concerning microniche: I found a site that had my perfect niche. papi.com. Exclusive contenet, hot latin boys, a club feel. The perfect site for my tastes. I joined and loved the content. It was updated regulary. I still stayed only a month. But in a few months I will join again. For another month.

You mentioned AVS and didnt see how you could make money. There are 3 ways to make money from an AVS and the 3rd way may be best for you.

1. Create a site and just put it on the avs link list and leech the traffic. You MAY get a sale to the AVS if you are lucky. Or you may sell to a sponsor or two on the inside. Years ago the UGAS and CA linklist was full of these. They still are.

2. Create AVS site and do a one time submit to wherever you submit your feeder sites. Linklists etc. Here you may make a few sales to the AVS, more than in case 1.

3. Create a really really good AVS site. Spend time and show on the tour you have content. Design banners for it. Create feeder sites, TGP galleries, etc etc all link to your AVS site. This way you have a steady flow of traffic. Treat it like your own paysite.

I did #3 with a niche that I got my content in one of ouniques old 100 sets for $1,000 deals. I think maybe I had at most 30-40 sets. Plus I added vidoe theaters and linked to dvd's in the niche. But I had no hosted video content.

I used Mansites as it was not a BIG AVS like UGAS so the chances of the surfer having a membership was small. And they offered FREE trials which is something you cant do with your own paysite.

So when I created my feeder sites and tgp galleries I liked to my avs site instead of a sponsor. My conversion to my AVS site was like 1:50 something. I was only making $20, but when you consider if I sent that same traffic to a sponsor and converted at 1:400 it was a win win situation. True, I didnt get rebills as if I had my own Paysite, but I didnt deal with customer service, Visa, or chargebacks. Since I could offer as a sales pich access to other sites bla bla bla, the good conversion made up for any money i may have lost in rebills.

The best advice I can give anyone creating a microniche paysite, and this is from my own experience running a mn paysite is having a webcam in the niche. I have the data to back that up.

Good luck on your site. If Basschick gave you the idea, then I am sure it will be a good one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc

thanks. I dont know if Im competing with anyone. I think people buy a membership based on the niche and/or seeing that ONE guy on the site that they have to get more of.

I dont think surfers will look at my site and then look at puppypass and compare. I think its a trigger on a site that urges them to buy a membership so they get more of the one model they want.

---

I agree that members will buy based on seeing one guy in the tour. i have done that. The question is how long will they stay after they see that one guy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

See, this is what I am talking about when I mention retention. If you say you may never launch until you find 40 sets, how long do you think a member will stay a member if you can't even get 40 sets?

From what I have been hearing retention in general is down across the board. There is just an influx of gay sites.

Concerning microniche: I found a site that had my perfect niche. papi.com. Exclusive contenet, hot latin boys, a club feel. The perfect site for my tastes. I joined and loved the content. It was updated regulary. I still stayed only a month. But in a few months I will join again. For another month.

You mentioned AVS and didnt see how you could make money. There are 3 ways to make money from an AVS and the 3rd way may be best for you.

1. Create a site and just put it on the avs link list and leech the traffic. You MAY get a sale to the AVS if you are lucky. Or you may sell to a sponsor or two on the inside. Years ago the UGAS and CA linklist was full of these. They still are.

2. Create AVS site and do a one time submit to wherever you submit your feeder sites. Linklists etc. Here you may make a few sales to the AVS, more than in case 1.

3. Create a really really good AVS site. Spend time and show on the tour you have content. Design banners for it. Create feeder sites, TGP galleries, etc etc all link to your AVS site. This way you have a steady flow of traffic. Treat it like your own paysite.

I did #3 with a niche that I got my content in one of ouniques old 100 sets for $1,000 deals. I think maybe I had at most 30-40 sets. Plus I added vidoe theaters and linked to dvd's in the niche. But I had no hosted video content.

I used Mansites as it was not a BIG AVS like UGAS so the chances of the surfer having a membership was small. And they offered FREE trials which is something you cant do with your own paysite.

So when I created my feeder sites and tgp galleries I liked to my avs site instead of a sponsor. My conversion to my AVS site was like 1:50 something. I was only making $20, but when you consider if I sent that same traffic to a sponsor and converted at 1:400 it was a win win situation. True, I didnt get rebills as if I had my own Paysite, but I didnt deal with customer service, Visa, or chargebacks. Since I could offer as a sales pich access to other sites bla bla bla, the good conversion made up for any money i may have lost in rebills.

The best advice I can give anyone creating a microniche paysite, and this is from my own experience running a mn paysite is having a webcam in the niche. I have the data to back that up.

Good luck on your site. If Basschick gave you the idea, then I am sure it will be a good one.

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Thats interesting you mention Papi, because Ive been promoting the Topbucks College sex parties site and doing well with it.
I think that whole 20yo guys wild sex parties is a great idea.

Im in boston and wanted to do something like that since there are so many college students here, but havent done it yet.

Great suggestions, thanks. I do #3 but didnt put in the full effort into it. I tend to make many sites and see what happens.
This time I spent the time to really focus and I think it will turn out better.

OMG!

You are in Boston. I have filmed so many guys in Boston.

Manhunt.net is the best place to get them.

I actually filmed Johnny Hazzard before he became a Chi Chi star. Have a good photoset of him and some nice DV video. And a memorable sex session as well.

#3 works well if you implement it right. If you surf MOTN there are many sites that use an AVS that pay the featured price ($200+ a month, depending on category) that advertise their AVS sites.

I just can stress it enough - Retention is a bitch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

OMG!

You are in Boston. I have filmed so many guys in Boston.

Manhunt.net is the best place to get them.

I actually filmed Johnny Hazzard before he became a Chi Chi star. Have a good photoset of him and some nice DV video. And a memorable sex session as well.

#3 works well if you implement it right. If you surf MOTN there are many sites that use an AVS that pay the featured price ($200+ a month, depending on category) that advertise their AVS sites.

I just can stress it enough - Retention is a bitch.

---

Thats interesting, Husky Hunks said the same thing about Manhunt.
You shoot in your own studio?

Marc,

I have a big loft in Boston. Lots of open space. And believe it or not i sneak in some public nudity in a few place i found. You may know them. Hehehehe.

I have an idea for a redhead site if that's what you are doing. It's sortta crazy but very unique in that you can get on the reality bandwagon so to speak. And I think it would retain members as well.

If you have aim abostonboy2003

BTW, Manhunt is so easy both to hookup and get models.

if you can barely find content to get started, find a niche you CAN find content for.

and consider this - i made great sales with my black muscle site and the content was easy as pie to find. create a micro niche out of a heavy traffic niche - big dick twinks, uncut black cocks - or go with a niche that there's a lot of traffic for but not many sites like big dick or uncut. there's plenty of content for all of these and they should have a big chunk of traffic.

or create a niche out of what's already there - like content from the body shoppe. you could create an uncle don site - creepy though he is, our surfers liked the content - or a site that claims the guys are all from one college or one city. make it a famous city or a famous college or invent one.

or how about spoiled rich brats? you could do that out of all sorts of amateur and twink stuff by cutting off the interviews when necessary and adding profiles.

How about this.....

Do your readhead site, but make it a reality site.

In addition to your models that are true redheads, why not take a model a month and die his hair red. Show a before and after shoot. "Pretend" he has to be a redhead for a month. Find a good writer, and post every week what its like to be a redhead. Then at the end of the month ask him yes or no are you keeping the redhair? Of course it can all be make believe exceppt for the hair coloring part.

I don't like redheads but I may joing a site like just just for kicks.

Basschick,

No more talk about uncut. Hehehehehehe.

Let me update my sig first, ok?

Just Kidding....