I was just wondering what most people that promote sites like the price of that site to be? I can see both ends of it, it would probably sell a bit more at a low price but at a higher pice you would make more on every transaction.:signhere:
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I was just wondering what most people that promote sites like the price of that site to be? I can see both ends of it, it would probably sell a bit more at a low price but at a higher pice you would make more on every transaction.:signhere:
perhaps worth mentioning is that a lot of bigger review sites opt for the lowest price if multiple prices are offered - usually $14.95. they say they recur a lot better.
I agree with Bass.
I am doing the PimpRoll Stuff and sending them to 14.95 w/ NO trial. Even though they offer more for the trial signups. I am converting 2-4 times better depending on the week. Plus, $15 bucks gives the surfer enough extra cash to buy another site. Hehehehehe
Well 15$ is too low for this site, I plan to many updates for such a low price, I might do a smaller cheaper twink site in the future just to appeal to the low end of the market. I am thinking now maybe 29.95 with no trial and then 24.95 0r 19.95 recurring.
I knew a guy that was on my hosting service that charged under $10 and my host said you would not believe the members he has.
Sean cody is 24.95 a month and you dont get any better than that with exclusive contenet.
It's ahrd to get them in at $30 w/o a trial unless its 100% Exclusive.
Fuck.
I may do a twink site like Platinum Bucks 9.82 deals. Drop in 500,00 bought images, all the twink feeds, and add 3 models a day. Pay $25 a signup and make a killing.
OK man, but from what you have said on this board I do not think you would create a twink site, maybe a frat site you call twinks. :baby:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Non exclusive twink site.... jesus dear... 29.95 is aaaaaaa looooot.... 19.95 is more normal price... if you want to retain people....
I have seen them for 24.95-39.95 19.95 maybe for recurring, but I will charge at least 24.95 to start, BTW I am getting/have some exclusive stuff, its just that I do not have that much yet, and trying to get allot of movies and stuff first.
I would create a twink site. I have no issues with that at all. I just wouldn't make it/ brand it as simulated child porn, even though it's legal.
Max, you have ti do the math. Is it better to have 500 members at 29.95, 1500 at 19.95, or 5,000 at 9.82.
Once you hit $20+ unless it's all exclusive, you will have a hard time converting. At 9.82 with a pay per signup I can do a nice crosss sell to a site and make an additional $10-20 right off the bat.
I have some good tiwnk domain and am not afraid of twink sites. I mean i am creating ethnictwinks.com
It isnt just about the math involved with the money to be made but also the timeframe for breaking even in addition to the amount of traffic needed to be sent to the site to make those numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
Id rather have 500 members @ $29.95 to a site that broke even in 2 months than have 5000 members @ $9.82 on a site that took 12 months to break even.
Likewise, how much traffic was sent to the tours in order to make those sales?
Numbers like that look really good on paper but, until you put your site online for the 'real world' to see, you arent going to know which is the best option.
Dont forget, the lower the membership cost, the longer its going to take to break even and, the more content you are going to need to purchase, a smaller membership base at a higher price point is going to be much more cost effective for the long term than a higher membership base with a lower price point.
Regards,
Lee
I think Lee is right on this one, and lets not forget the lower the price the less affiliates that are going to want to promote it.
I disagree. I don't look at things short term. If i judged ANY project by how fast i could break even, then no project would be worth it.
I mean I can break even on an AVS site in two hours. Does that mean I should just create AVS sites? MAYBE!
The bottom line in my book is how much is a membership worth to me?
For my last paysite a 1 month membership at 14.95 was worth $88.62
A 3 moth membership at 29.95 was worth $112.84. If I was charging twice that, I am sure each member would be much less than that.
This is not taking into account upsells or crossells. Paying $25 per signup gives me a real steady revenue stream on cross sells. And mega volume in the members area gives me a great deal of upsells.
Cross sells and upsells are an art and sciensce in itself. Some understand the conversions and extra income cross sells make, others don't. And there are tricks to upsell I rarely see. For example I had my aebn theater showing videos that members could buy in packs of 6 for like 189 and I got 30% off that. So surfer spends $20 in the video theater likes the videos and then buys the video pack giving me like ANOTHER $20.
Crossells and unpsells with 5,000 members at a lower price is more profitable in the long run. At some point your costs become ALMOST fixed. What I mean by that is I can spend 5k a month on content and have 1000 memebers and spend 7k and have 5k and spend 10k and have 15,000. The more members the lower the cost per member.
Yes it is a longer period to break even and that's the cost of a solid business plan. But as the the membership base implodes, the cost per memeber declines rapidly.
To me its about retention, crossells, and upsells, and actually generatinmg enough signups and traffic to do some good trades.
I mean this model wont work on a niche site. But a twink site. Hell yes. Every signup I get to my 9.82 site that I keep happy maybe one someone that has a $30 site loses. And if i can convert 5 times better than they can it's worth it in many more ways than one.
IF however I had good 100% exclusive content, i would never do that.
Break even time frame is NOT important if you are in it for the long haul. And traffic is not an issue to a Twink site at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
What are issues? CONVERSIONS, RETENTION, crossells, upsells, and the ability to convince webmasters that your site converts and they will make more money.
And let's no kid ourselfs Twink content is not anywhere near the most expensive content on the market. Even exclusive Twink content is considerablt less than Asian (IF you can even find it).
You are talking about the PPS business model i presume where upsells, cross-sells and trading traffic are important however, most program owners on GWW run their sites based on the revshare business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
If you open a revshare model affiliate program and have nothing but upsells, cross-sells, traffic trades via consoles, etc etc, you arent going to get many affiliates, again, loing term, you want the most traffic you can get to your site, thats where affiliates are invaluable, the more traffic they send and the more sales that they make, the more profit you make in the long term.
We all know the PPS business model isnt about retaining but about up and cross selling the members in addition to making money on the console chains.
You are kidding right?Quote:
Break even time frame is NOT important if you are in it for the long haul.
You think McDonalds opens a new store without looking at how soon they can break even? You think Microsoft launches a new product without taking in to account their breakeven point? I dont think so.
Traffic is important to ANY site.Quote:
traffic is not an issue to a Twink site at all.
Without traffic, you dont have sales... Period.
Regards,
Lee
This blows me away. Sorry Lee. You are saying you would rather gross 15,000 a month than 49,100? And lets not firget how much additional revenue 4,500 members can generate in the members area. And the reason is it took longer to break even?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Think of years two and three and four and five......
On $30 site gross years 2-5 = $540,000.00
On 9.82 site gross years 2-5 = $2,359,200.00
My motto
THINK BIG SHOOT HARD!
Or, grow to quick and fail miserably ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
Regards,
Lee
Lee,
I am talking about the pps model. Where retention is NOT as big as deal in revshare.
As far as break even time. Different people have a different tolerance for risk.
IF I see higher rewards in the long term, i am willing to allow a longer break even point.
Those who tend to break even soon, tend to max their profits out soon as well.
LOL, You talk about Microsoft. They have still NOT broke even on the Xbox. And even know after releasing gen 2, they say the division will lose money for at least another 12 months. This is what you call forward thinking. Lose money in short term to make in long term. IF Microsoft didnt think this way they wouldnt be losing $126 on every xbox sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Nothing personal but I have numbers to back up what i am saying.
Therein lays the problem, very few of GWWs community members run sites using the PPS business model so, unless they know this is what you are talking about, you will end up losing them money.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
The methods you have mentioned above are ones that work well for sites operating on the PPS model but not for revshare. That is my point.
As 99% of the community members we have on GWW operate sites based on the revshare business model, it makes sense to speak to them, especially newbies, in terms of growing their sites / affiliate programs based on the revshare model and not the PPS one ;)
Regards,
Lee
I do also, for both business models.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
However, would you suggest to a newbie that they launch a site based on the PPS business model without knowing anything about running a site first and foremost? I certainly wouldnt.
Regards,
Lee
I stand correct. You are right. These are two different models. And a 9.82 rev share site would fail. MOST LIKELY or NOT generate the profits of a $30 site.
Would I recommend newbies jump in the pps model. NO. Unless they have deep pockets and are willing to invest in someone with experience running them.
But I believe that in the long run the PPS can be much more profitable.
I give as an example pridebucks. A company that started from nothing three years ago and has grown to include sites with unique content, a content site, buiness board, and a pay persignup model. They have always taken the ethical high road.
My main concern with the industry as a whole is we rely on two processors. i have been fucked by DMR and Ibill. Both were darlings at one time. I am not saying Ibill or Epoch is in trouble.
BUT IF the time came whne we had to rely on one, how many webmasters would promote revshare? I like my cash upfront, even if it may be less than what I get in the long run when I choose to promote sites. It's one area of this business that from past experience I have a low tolerance for risk.
True enough but, even PrideBucks started out paying on the revshare business model and went in to the PPS model once they knew they had something that worked. They didnt jump right in with the PPS business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
That should be a concern for everyone however, there are alternate options to third party billing and, a lot of companies do use their own merchant services however, for a new affiliate program, the trust that the 3rd party billers such as CCBill have, is a great selling point to any potential affiliates. Not to mention, the time saved for the program owner not having to do any check cutting which only adds to any potential problems a program may have.Quote:
My main concern with the industry as a whole is we rely on two processors. i have been fucked by DMR and Ibill. Both were darlings at one time. I am not saying Ibill or Epoch is in trouble.
If it came down to only promoting 1 business model, based on past experience with GWW Community members, the vast majority of them would go with the revshare business model, the main reason being, from what i gather, is that they dont like the methods used on the PPS business model by those program owners to generate incomes.Quote:
BUT IF the time came whne we had to rely on one, how many webmasters would promote revshare? I like my cash upfront, even if it may be less than what I get in the long run when I choose to promote sites. It's one area of this business that from past experience I have a low tolerance for risk.
Personally, i like a mix of both business models when it comes to choosing the programs i promote, PPS on lower quality traffic sources where, as you state, you get the quick hit of funds and dont have to worry about whether your member is going to retain and revshare model for the better quality traffic sources.
Regards,
Lee
My LAST post on this topic.
Creating a porn site is in many ways like investing in the stock market. When you goto a broker they are required to get a profile of you. Your risk tolerance. Those with a low risk tolerance are recommended a low risk investment strategy. The returns are low, but the losses are minimal. Those with a high risk tolerance, will see big swings.
My recommendation to ANY newbie in the paysite game is a low risk tolerance at first. I took that approach with my asian site.
BUT, I truly believe that putting a new site out at $30 can be very high risk. IF the tour doesnt convert and you have 2,000 in feeds in there a month, you are losing money until you tweak your site. For any new webmaster I would recommend start small, low priced, maybe even just your own traffic, test, test, test, then as you see what retention you get, and as you can afford more exclusive content, up the price. Then really promote your program with hard numbers and a sense of confidence.
Lee,
Pridebusks did start with a pay per signup. i know, I was the first person to signup and joe sent me an email saying cjb was not ready. don't promote.
I agree on you as a mix. It really depends on how well you know your traffic. And how well you know how to filter it.
My mix tends to be more pps though than most. But many webmasters never got burned 14,000 a month in recurring income when DMR went bust. Or how many webmasters played the tier one game with AC and then finally lost it all? I mean webmasters were signing up to their own AC sites just to keep their recurring income. That is sad.
And after coming back in this biz after a couple years out, I noticed that about 20 paysites I was promoting thru CCbill are gone and I was a changing my links. Not so w/ pps.
It really boils down to how good you think your traffic will convert on a certain site.
Actually, i beleive they launched with a 60% revshare or $25 per sale.Quote:
Originally Posted by abostonboy
The $25 per sale was on a $29.95 (i think it was) membership therefore, it wasnt a true PPS business model ;)
Regards,
Lee
True.
Actually at that time it was 24.95.
But, as a new site I am sure that many members stayed for a month. So they were losing money w/ fees content etc. And with the 60% revshare you really had to keep a member to the third cycle to make as much as you would on the $25 pps. Which as a new site launched with like 5 or 6 models and scences was a challenge.
As the professor of PrideBucks 101, I'll skip roll call and get right to today's lecture.
1. PrideBucks started with one site - CircleJerkBoys.com which to this day is our top converting site. An interesting thing to note is that we started with 9 episodes.
2. CircleJerkBoys started with a 24.95 price point.
3. For the first few months we advertised 60% revshare. Then we added PPS at $25 program wide after 3 months. Though from pretty much day one if someone asked for PPS we gave it to them individually.
4. Since we give access to all of our sites when signing up to any of the sites... we raised the price to 29.95 on our sites when adding boysgonebad (our 3rd site). Concurrently we raised our PPS payout to $30. This continues to be the program structure to this day.
With that said this is what I would suggest for anyone starting out.
1. Do not start off with just 9 original episodes. It wouldn't cut it anymore. Our last two sites, Menover30.com and ExtraBigDicks.com we started off around 15 episodes and they did quite well right out of the gate.
2. If you don't have a huge bankroll behind you, stick with Revshare for the first few months and build up some cash flow.
3. If you do decide to offer PPS right away or in the future, don't let anyone tell you that offering 100%+ of the monthly join option isn't a true PPS. Even then start off by offering it only to a select few so you can see how it goes.
4. Lease affiliate software like NATS or MPA. The ability to have cascading billing and increase your sales by 20% minimum is going to cover the costs of the software and increase your cash flow to reinvest back into your business.
Let me get this right man, you are saying I only need about 15 or so original episodes “video and image” to open a new site, as long as the membership I am guessing includes 1-3 other membership sites you offer with different content.
What about sites with non exclusive content, what kind of a mix or original stuff would you suggest as a minimum with that model? I know allot of people that run sites with almost no 100% original stuff and do very good. Do you really think this 100% exclusive stuff is the end all be all, after all most of the people that have seen everything in everyone else’s sites are not going to stick around you site for every long anyway.
Its like dating I guess, if you know a guy you are thing about dating has been out with hundreds of other people and his past relationships only lasted 1-2 months does not make you think he’s a flake and you will VERY soon be just another X regardless of what you do for him.
well the bonus sites couldn't hurt. but no thats not what i was saying. you could open a paysite now... with 15 original episodes (each episode having 100 pics and 15 min of vide min) and you would do fine as long as you're not charging too much - probably 19.95 or 24.95 tops. the key is updating the site at least once per week with a new original episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Our business model is Exclusive Content. However, we do have one site that we use quite a bit of limited nonexclusive stuff and thats our twink site - TrueTwinks.com However, even that site gets updated with exclusive content too.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I honestly don't think there is a correct answer toyour question. My best guess off the cuff would be to open with no less than 100 sets of pics at a minimum of 10,000 pics, and 10 DVDs or 20 hours of video. Though I would think you would want to update with 10-20 sets a months plus 1-2 DVDs (2-4 hours) a month . Plus I'd have a ton of plugins too.
again, nonexclusive content sites aren't my area of expertise so i would spend a lot of time reviewing my competition first and compare what they have and how much they update/how often.
i'm trying to think if a guy that lasts 1 - 2 months is a bad thing when your 18 - 28 :goof:Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
sincerely ~ ..."next love" - denise williams
I agree to a point. Yes most members will not stick around month after month for 3 years, but we sure do love it when they do. However, you stand a much better chance of making a sale if they've never seen your content before.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
If you just brokeup with a guy because he was too clingy and then go on a date with someone that has similar attributes...more than likely their won't be a second date for the new guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djdez
Ya with the feeds and everything else I add it will update every day, this first Teen Boy site will be allot like your true twinks site, but maybe a bit younger and harder-core. I have some exclusive stuff, but not really the plan for this site, some of the others I will be opening in the coming months will have much more exclusive stuff mainly do to the themes. The new sites will be made to enhance the existing content I offer its just that I have to have a place for feeds and non exclusive stuff so I might as well start with that is my thinking. I am glad I do not really need that much Exclusive stuff to start the new sites that will only help expedite things but I might start the first new one with like 9 exclusive vides and some really good non exclusive stuff in a mix. Its just so expensive, so really get them all up and going has to be a big priority right now.
Feeds ARE NOT AN UPDATE!
Updates are something unique tou your site. A pic set you add, a vdeio YOU add, etc.
If you say feeds are updates to your site, well if you have 10 crappy cam feeds then you can say MY SITE UPDATES 20 TIMES A DAY.
Udate scedule do today:
1. Bob walked in Bedroom at Dude Dorm and jerked off.
2-5 4 New Models appeared on Flirt 4 free
Bl bla bla
What Joe gave is is very sound advice, but since you can't even afford a phone how can you update your site?