Gay Ethnic Linking Categories

What's up with tgp's, mgp's, directories, link lists, lumping anything other than white guy sites into a catch-all "ethnic" category?

Surfers don't search for "ethnic"... they look for what they are seeking....... Latin guys, Black guys, Asian guys, Indian guys, white guys, and variations of the above... but i would venture to say that most anyone into any of the "other than white" guys, would rarely describe their tastes as being "into ethnic guys".

So why don't these websites break it out more to make it more obvious to the surfer what's available? To make traffic more productive for sites listing in their directories in these categories?

From my experience, each of these "ethnicities" have large market potential in the gay communtiy, with Black being the biggest, followed by Latino, Then Asian, and so on...

Not only are webmasters of these listing sites missing further marketing opportunities, but SEO opportunities for each "ethnic" niche, as well as increased surfer interactivity on their site, and more productive traffic for the sites listed in their listings.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be marketing a niche of Asian men to find that it always seems to get shunted to the "ethnic" room with black, latino and other "of color" races making it so difficult to actually find any sites in my particular niche after wading through pages and pages of unsorted 'ethnic' site listings.

I think it's time that gay men took the time to get to know their community and realize that black men, Latin men, Asian men, are not all the same, and certainly don't deserve the disservice of being lumped into one catch all category.

Take the time to break out your "ethnic" categories, your traffic, your surfers and your submitting webmasters will thank you.

Tom,

I agree whole-heartedly, by lumping latin, black, asian, white and interracial sites in to just 1 category webmasters seriously cut down the amount of traffic and sales they could be generating.

Regards,

Lee

http://www.gayethniclinks.com

Tom,

That's tae's site.

:)

I agree too! We discovered this when we redid our categories last year. You need to be specific because that is how people search. We ended up adding some categories, and are looking to add even more once we get the content to support it...

I suspect a part of it is ignorance: "all Asians are the same" sort of thing, so everyone gets lumped into a singular category.

But I also suspect that it has something to do with the lack of content. If I were to create a category on my link list for "Indian Guys" I doubt I'd have much in it. If I create a category called "Asian Guys" then it would at least have some content list in it.

It's like of like bears, if you break them down into muscle bears, daddy bears, polar bears, chubby bears, bear cubs, you could end up with five sparsely populated categories, but if you just create "Bears" at least you get the surfer going in the right direction.

Michael

dzi,

For many it started as lack of content and then evolved into laziness.

i have run a linklist since I can't remember when. it was never meant to make money, just something i wanted to do i guess. Meet webamsters, and use it more as a tool for checking out new sites to market, look at their recips and find new link lists, and see how they deisgned there sites.

When I first started I had an ethnic category, and at the tiime Ounique maybe had 20 latin sets, 5 asian, and maybe 20 black.

So that category was small. Even finding 5 sponsors for the page was tough. At the time there was pretty much only asianguys, ars had a black site, and a few others. I think streetlife just launched an affiliate program. Not much else in all honestly.

I never broke that category down as the market grew. laziness. Lack of priority as the ll was more my personal homepage than anything else.

The same was true of the video category. Originally it was meant to list amateur producers who sold videos. And that was the submissions I got. Now that page get's 80% movie gallereis (which i reject) and 20% movie sites (which are ok).

It's all about evolution in the industry and how webmasters react to the change.

And Tom an issue some established link list may have when expanding their category is - the page as a general ethnic page, maybe still getting heavy search engine traffcic. i know when I created my link list and put recips up to my site on all feeder sites I submitted, I linked directly to that category page rather than my home page. Some of my internal pages get much more SE traffic than others etc. So if an ethnics page is getting x amount of SE a day, and i can make a sale to a sponsor, is it really worth my time to create five sub categories and then move the sites around? Maybe, maybe not.

In general, the ethnic field is IMHO reaching a sturation point. this is especially true of asian. There is limited content, it is expensive, the Biggest asian sites (based on members joining per day) use the same content (so it affects webmaster conversions), and those companies that have asian sites with exclusive content either pay via a % program and don't conver a whole lot better than the PPS boys because of site design issues. The Black market is bigger, but conversions from site to site are all over the place, so there is a learning curve to find the site that works for you. The latino market however is still almost a license to print money. Even on revshare programs. For some reason they just got it right. And the content is diverse, pleantiful, and reasonable now. unlike four years ago.

Yeah, 'ethnic' is really a word that does not have any meaning to me, like anyone who is not white is an 'ethnic' .... :wacko:

So danny is ethnicguys.com a bad domain name? registered that domain when I started latinoguys.com, which I have long sold.

i mean if I wanted to creat an asian, black, and latino site. How would I do it. And I know for a fact that many that liek one likes others. My bf loves to get fucked by black guys. And latinos. And I am sure there are many that would love to watch.

But i dont want it to be all interracial either.

BB,

Well one of the most popular gay blogs is called 'Men of Color' and IMHO that sounds a whole lot better then 'ethnic.' The term 'ethnic' just does not sound sexy to me. It sounds like what my parents would call Ethiopan food LOL, I really don't think anyone other then Americans use that term to describe different races so to me 'ethnic' is really 'ethnocentric' which is not so good when you are trying to market to a global Internet market.

Cheers,
D.

btw.....you had Latinoguys.com and sold it??? LOL hope you got a pretty penny for it!!!

i used to run a large and successful tgp. the more categories you have, the more your submitters fuck up and the more fixing you'll have to do. and that's on top of the hours already involved in running a big tgp or link list.

the surfers know to go to ethnic - we made many sales on our ethnic category - and we did have text descriptions, so it's not like they didn't know they were going to a latin gallery.

also some days we'd have like 2 asian submissions and 2 latin submissions - not enough for their own categories.

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Originally Posted by dannyz

btw.....you had Latinoguys.com and sold it??? LOL hope you got a pretty penny for it!!!

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i sold it as a developed site with exclusive latin models filme in nyc and hartfor conn.

i look at it now and cry. Its so bad.

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Originally Posted by dannyz

btw.....you had Latinoguys.com and sold it??? LOL hope you got a pretty penny for it!!!

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Enough to buy a house. :)

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Originally Posted by basschick

i used to run a large and successful tgp. the more categories you have, the more your submitters fuck up and the more fixing you'll have to do. and that's on top of the hours already involved in running a big tgp or link list.

the surfers know to go to ethnic - we made many sales on our ethnic category - and we did have text descriptions, so it's not like they didn't know they were going to a latin gallery.

also some days we'd have like 2 asian submissions and 2 latin submissions - not enough for their own categories.

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And lets not forget when webmasters submit and use prorams there are twink catagories, gay etc, but no asian, black, latino for the most part. So it confuses submiiters that use prorams.

I agree with DannyZ, I guess I should we are working in the same area... :)
The term "ethnic" guys is so non descriptive it's almost a nameless category.
Men of Color would certainly be more appropriate, yet still not good enough.

I am sorry but there have been guys marketing asian, black and latino sites for as long as I can remember in the 8 years we have had our asianguys site. I know that content has been available for more than 7 years through ounique and maxpixels (I Myself shot our content and licensed ith through Ounique for a few years, and DannyZ and his previous partners, licensed his through Maxpixels) and many sites took advantage of that and were marketing asian sites, and making their own asian sites with it. I know that bostonboy, in particular has a particular affinity with Asian and Latino guys and was marketing the hell out of them for a long time and he was cranking out AVS sites, TGP sites, all along. Sindbadbookmarks has always found PLENTY of "ethnic" content sites to list, and I could go on, but the point is not an issue of there not being any content.. The point is that people who run these sites don't take the time to break out the niches, and are(have been) missing a valuable marketing arena, SEO opportunities, and experiencing possible surfer frustration.

I also don't buy the "surfers know to look in the ethnic categories" argument. They have been FORCED to look in the ethnic categories because that's where webmasters have been dumping men of color websites for years. It does not make it smart from a marketing angle, it does not alleviate possible surfer frustration at not seeing a place for "asian" or "latin" or "black" etc., sites, nor does it present the webmaster of the site with any marketing opportunities to promote these "men of color" sites by specific niche.

As to the argument that having had an "ethnic" category and it seems to get lots of traffic anyway, you could argue that it's the same concept as a clothing store having a sale.

If a store had a sale and had a bulk of mens clothes to put out on display, (shirts, pants, jackets, socks, underwear) but did not know how to really break out the products by specific type of merchandise, or did not care to take the time to do so, thus lumping them all together on a big sale table, customers would be confused having them all on the same table. Not to mention that if it were a crowded store, it might be a bit frustrating for many customers who cannot get through the clammoring crowd to get to the items they want to seek, don't want to bother wading through the pile of unsorted clothing, or simply get frustrated looking for what they are seeking that they give up and leave the store. True, the sales table has lots of "traffic" and true, sales are being made, but what amount of sales are being missed that might be realized if the items were put on separate sale tables by type of clothing?

I do agree that the web is an evolving monster... and that more content has become available in the last few years in "men of color" niches, so I think that webmasters need to "evolve" their websites. I think surfers will thank them, I think SE's will give them more diverse listings, I think increased marketing opportunities will present themselves, and i think those webmasters who own sites in specific "men of color" niches would certainly appreciate it.

I further wonder why webmasters of link sites that do have "ethnic" categories many times don't even bother to find sponsors for those areas..simply throwing in some generic site promoting "non ethnic" men. There are a bounty of sponsors in 'ethnic" categories, and what it says to me is that the webmasters of these lists don't care to know how to break down the "ethnic" category properly, simply have no interest in finding out, or as some have said here, are simply too lazy to do so.

I wonder how much more PPS or Recurring sales are being missed by webmasters not putting correct sponsors in the appropriate linking categories?

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Originally Posted by tombarr

I know that bostonboy, in particular has a particular affinity with Asian and Latino guys and was marketing the hell out of them for a long time and he was cranking out AVS sites, TGP sites, all along.

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Yea, I was. And my ethnic page was ALL my sites. No one submitted. And I bought ALL the content. Even got ripped off via Jimmy in the tune of $2,000 - $3,000 for sme exclusive. And started a asian boy pay site with my bf.

I still give you a site that a person I helped get in this biz
http://www.gayethniklinks.com

Tom - Part of the issue is the big boys come in and Offer 30-40 PPS and sites like asiantwinks actually converts. As does bangkokbangers. LatinBeef with Python. Black sites are hit or miss. BYOT's do better. And pure asian men and boykkake convert real well. I guess what shocks me most is that the straight sites actually have the "colors" right, though boykkakes color scheme is ok. I mean a brazilian site should be green and yellow. Etc...

It's a somewhat HARD niche to master. Much easier throwing up str8 boy sites. Etc. I mean when I started there were so few submisions to my ethnic page and so few sponsors. That right now its more valuable for my time to put up a reality page than shuffle a few hundred links to pages that will start fresh with no search enginge traffic. Or even add a Med Fetish page.

But I do agree with you.

It's just a real shame that the big PPS guys are coming in with crappy content and actually designing sites that convert well.

IF you ask me it's up to you guys. Zbuckz took the first step by putting out about 75+ FREE hosted sites. That's an incentive for an asian category to many. Maybe others will follow. Competition is healty.

And you know Tom we go back a long way. But you also have to think one thing - when is the last time you put up a new banner? Hate to sound like a bitch, but adding a few new banners every couple years is a lot easier than moving hundreds of links around.

OOPS!

http://www.gayethniclinks.com

BB,

I think you misunderstood my point. I was not talking about big sponsors coming in and offering crappy sites to try and capture traffic and conversions on a niche they don't really specialize in, feeding to generic feeder members areas. That is another complete argument in itself, and one you know I have always had a very vocal issue with. It's not about what converts and doesn't convert in the "Asian" niche, the issue is with the fact that many LL's, TGP's, MGP's, PP's, lump the men of color into an "ethnic" category and then they put some twink site or some other "non-ethnic" sites marketing tools in that area trying to make a sale, when there are, and have been for many years, plenty of ethnic sites that do convert well. I would venture a bet that if these webmasters took the time to market to the specific niches in their sites, with correct niche specific sponsors, their revenue from these areas on their sites would be increased.

As to new banners on my asianguys site. You are right. Like you, we took some time off from what we started with (asianguys) do other things and we spent it wisely building up our retail sites incredibly well over the last few years. But there are lots of things in the works for asianguys. New site, New types of content, new banners and some new webmaster tools that noone else has, in this niche or any other. It's not revolutionary but it is a unique set of tools to promote sites. In development now.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Yea, I was. And my ethnic page was ALL my sites. No one submitted. And I bought ALL the content. Even got ripped off via Jimmy in the tune of $2,000 - $3,000 for sme exclusive. And started a asian boy pay site with my bf.

I still give you a site that a person I helped get in this biz
http://www.gayethniklinks.com

Tom - Part of the issue is the big boys come in and Offer 30-40 PPS and sites like asiantwinks actually converts. As does bangkokbangers. LatinBeef with Python. Black sites are hit or miss. BYOT's do better. And pure asian men and boykkake convert real well. I guess what shocks me most is that the straight sites actually have the "colors" right, though boykkakes color scheme is ok. I mean a brazilian site should be green and yellow. Etc...

It's a somewhat HARD niche to master. Much easier throwing up str8 boy sites. Etc. I mean when I started there were so few submisions to my ethnic page and so few sponsors. That right now its more valuable for my time to put up a reality page than shuffle a few hundred links to pages that will start fresh with no search enginge traffic. Or even add a Med Fetish page.

But I do agree with you.

It's just a real shame that the big PPS guys are coming in with crappy content and actually designing sites that convert well.

IF you ask me it's up to you guys. Zbuckz took the first step by putting out about 75+ FREE hosted sites. That's an incentive for an asian category to many. Maybe others will follow. Competition is healty.

And you know Tom we go back a long way. But you also have to think one thing - when is the last time you put up a new banner? Hate to sound like a bitch, but adding a few new banners every couple years is a lot easier than moving hundreds of links around.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

i sold it as a developed site with exclusive latin models filme in nyc and hartfor conn.

i look at it now and cry. Its so bad.

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It is bad! Probably one of the ugliest sites I've ever seen. What did they do to it?!

They destroyed it. It's a thorn in my side and rarely mention it. I wish i had that domain again. One day I may.

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i used to run a large and successful tgp. the more categories you have, the more your submitters fuck up and the more fixing you'll have to do. and that's on top of the hours already involved in running a big tgp or link list.

the surfers know to go to ethnic - we made many sales on our ethnic category - and we did have text descriptions, so it's not like they didn't know they were going to a latin gallery.

also some days we'd have like 2 asian submissions and 2 latin submissions - not enough for their own categories.

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Patti,

I am sure that it is possible to make sales from the 'ethnic' section, however I think it would be worth your extra time to divide the categories up. In my experience, every extra click you make a surfer go through to find exactly what they are looking for, the more chances you have of a lost sale. Think about it, your niche is muscle guys so how'd you like it if you went to the 'muscle' category but had to search through 'chubbies' and 'skinny' guys to find them under a section called 'male bodies.' Yeah, you'd probably still find what you are looking for but the search would be the first turn off and not seeing everything of your taste in one place would be the second turn off.

I'm also positive that your sales would increase on the TGP, as I've talked to both link list and TGP owners whose sales did go up once they made separate 'Asian,' 'Black' and 'Latino' sections.

Cheers,
DannyZ

Tom,

One major problem with the category thing.

And its mostly with Asian sites.

The content is expansive. There is not much out there.

I would guess to venture that there are maybe 100 sets priced under $50. And for many webmasters that's a lot for a set that may get x amount of visitors to their site versus paying $20 for a twink set that will get 10 times as much.

So what happens. Content provider X releases 10 new sets at $40. The 20 or so webmasters that agressively promote a niche like asian buy it. Then over the course of the next month I saw the same 20 webmasters each submit a site with the same content. Where do you draw the line? Do I aloow all of then to submit. NO! Your asian page could have 1,000 links, but after each third link its the same photoset. The same 10 sets from the same 20 webmasters. So 200 sites all have the same damn pics. I lose surfers.

My mentioning of PPS was more from a marketing, they were the ones giving webmasters hosted galleries, content, etc, and good marketing tools. AND you know that this is a niche I love and didn't want those sites promoted.
But the Rev programs stood still while the PPS released the tools.

It's up to you guys to help with the content. On the Asian side that's where webmasters need help. Give them content at a good price of host free sites and link list owners will lik to the free hosted and webmasters will buy the content and make sites. But then you sell the content and the PPS programs buy it as well. That was the point I was trying to make. It's a tricky situation mainly in the Asian niche.

And you know Tom how hard i tried. I took every set after I used it and then took parts and broke it into soft asian coks, blowjobs, fucking, amatuer with models from each set. even then i ran out of ideas. That's when I filmed my own stuff.







And for a category like that that its tough for a link list owner.

Dan

the main issue is the auto submitters dont have gay asian, gay latino, so u either dont get the submisiions or u wade through everything under the sun....

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And pure asian men and boykkake convert real well. I guess what shocks me most is that the straight sites actually have the "colors" right, though boykkakes color scheme is ok.

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I'm glad Boykakke is converting well for you Lloyd. You should also try Japanboyz that one is also converting well for us. ;)

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I would venture a bet that if these webmasters took the time to market to the specific niches in their sites, with correct niche specific sponsors, their revenue from these areas on their sites would be increased.

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I totally agree with you here Tom. I think what Lloyd is getting at is that he'd like to see more sponsors like our programs giving him the tools he needs to help him do that...which i know you already said you are doing.

And you can certainly add us to the consortium of webmasters that would like to see link lists giving Asian it's own category...there is a reason they call us 'rice queens' LOL, most rice queens I know are almost exclusively into Asian guys.

Cheers,
D.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Dan

the main issue is the auto submitters dont have gay asian, gay latino, so u either dont get the submisiions or u wade through everything under the sun....

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Actually Chameleon Submitter does break it into categories like gay asian now. The last version I got let you specify 6 different categories, and then it would go through your choises based on what the tgp accepted. I have noticed more tgps breaking things down into more specific niche. Especially on the gay ones. The straight ones are still lagging on that.

I have also noticed that some link lists have been breaking things into more detail. Not too long ago the mainly straight ones I was submitting to only had Gay as the category. I think there is some progress by them breaking things more now, and I am sure they will break it down further as time goes on. I have talked with a couple that are considering adding more specific categories.

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Originally Posted by sukime69

Actually Chameleon Submitter does break it into categories like gay asian now. The last version I got let you specify 6 different categories, and then it would go through your choises based on what the tgp accepted. I have noticed more tgps breaking things down into more specific niche. Especially on the gay ones. The straight ones are still lagging on that.

I have also noticed that some link lists have been breaking things into more detail. Not too long ago the mainly straight ones I was submitting to only had Gay as the category. I think there is some progress by them breaking things more now, and I am sure they will break it down further as time goes on. I have talked with a couple that are considering adding more specific categories.

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The new version does? awesome.

My other issue is that at some point, esp in the gay asian niche, the content is so expansive, that u get the same sets over and over again.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

The new version does? awesome.

My other issue is that at some point, esp in the gay asian niche, the content is so expansive, that u get the same sets over and over again.

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I think you are approaching this thread from the prospective of a promoter, and the actual thread is about linking from link lists and other sites in the correct categories.... has nothing to do with making sites to promote asian content.

Asian content is very hard to come by and very exclusive, some of the most difficult in the industry to generate as you know. And this is why you decided to shoot your own... (so you say...personally i think it is because you liked seeing naked asian guys) ... I decided a few years ago that I had made a mistake by licensing my content opening up the door to companies that have no real interest in gay asian men other than just making money from the surfers looking for the content and giving them really crappy value for their money spent, and because of that i now see my content as well as that of DannyZ, on other sites, geisha boys, asianboynation, bangkok bangers, and many others, competing against me.
So we stopped licensing to limit competition. If they want to compete, let them shoot it themselves. Asian sites, like ZbuckZ are finally offering a wide assortment of hosted galleries, and it is something we started , on the advice of DannyZ a few years ago, but never really concentrated on as well as they have. The present availability of hosted galleries and content, now available to promoters on my site, and Danny and CJ's sites are the right approach. We spend lots of money and take lots of risks generating new asian content and I pretty much refuse to make getting this content to compete with me easy for anyone that is not using it to promote my program.

We Both know the issues.

Eeven fiming asian boys in us is a hassle as 20% of the ones u fil 2 months later want it back.

MY point is still not adressed. HOW STICKY CAN AN ASIAN PAGE BE WHEN IT'S THE SAME CONTENT ALL THE TIME.

an example

site list
asin boy - cow
asian cuite chow
asian stud chow

at some point surfers stop surfing the page.

And webmaster who submit sitea nad galleries send us the traffic.

Without them submitting we get no traffic (unless u just skim with scripts).

And IF you refuse the webmaster who sends the 10th chow set, he stops sending.

the cycle repeats. Visitors get bored. banners dot get clicked.

Galleries are useless to Link List owners. Surfers want sites. When i added galleries they bitched. justusboys banned it as well in their link directory.

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Originally Posted by tombarr

I think you are approaching this thread from the prospective of a promoter, and the actual thread is about linking from link lists and other sites in the correct categories.... has nothing to do with making sites to promote asian content.

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I am appraoching this as a link list owner who promotes asian sites by sites i create and sites I promote via banners and featured sites.

Has everything to do with creating sites with Asian content. Whay have a category of asian content if all you are going to get is the same 100 sets over and over and over again. At least in a general ethnic page they are not goingto see the same 30-50 pics of model xyx in 20 differnet sites. It's hard to tell a webmaster to stop submitting a certain asian photoset that he spent $50 on because you already have 19 sites with the same model when that webmasters sends you a shit load of traffic from the other sites that he may spend $20 a set on in content every day.

The asian market is very profitable, but requires a certain degree of patience. The content is just not there to the average webmaster to be able to have huge asian sections on a LL or tgp with diverse content.

Even deniss at Hunhunter rejects 70% of the asian content being sold now as overused.