Crazy Stuff...

Whats with programs telling newbie webmasters to start out in the indusry TGPing these days? :wtf:

I mean seriously, if a webmaster hasnt been doing this even 1 week, telling them to get a paid host and start submitting galleries to the TGPs is a sure-fire way of ensuring they fail.

They most likely cant even market properly and these programs are telling them to start posting one of the most intensive bandwidth burning traffic sources out there :eek:

A heads up for any newbies reading this, if you want to start on TGPs thats fine but a better suggestion would be to hone your building and marketing skills first otherwise, you'll more than likely just end up with a huge BW bill.

Regards,

Lee

TGP is my least favorite forum of traffic, I do wish more TGP’s would take free hosts. Personally I think most of these TGP owners do not understand how worthless there traffic can be with very low profit margins sometimes. I know some good reasons why TGP do not like free host, but if you think about it I would beadle to create better, bigger, more flashier galleries for their viewers, rather than just worrying about the size on the graphics and images more than about anything else :cry:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

TGP is my least favorite forum of traffic, I do wish more TGP’s would take free hosts. Personally I think most of these TGP owners do not understand how worthless there traffic can be with very low profit margins sometimes. I know some good reasons why TGP do not like free host, but if you think about it I would beadle to create better, bigger, more flashier galleries for their viewers, rather than just worrying about the size on the graphics and images more than about anything else :cry:

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Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

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Have you been smoking Crack man? Or just trying to be a dick? Go down the list and tell me how far you have to go to find a tread I have posted in and how many even on this whole page that I have made 1 post on, then let us know what you find out

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Originally Posted by Lee

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

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Gosh, Lee,

guess your problem is you don't work half as hard as Sean does. If you would work as hard as Sean you would have much more time to reply to the threads on this forum - you could even have dialogues with yourself.

So get your shit together and start working, man :D

By my count I only posted in 5 thread on this whole page 2 of the were either created by me or about me that is less that 15% but who’s counting not you I take it.

TGP traffic is good traffic when it is used by someone who knows what they are doing. Those who don't understand TGP traffic or how to utilize it are the first to bitch about how poor it is.

I agree Lee, don't understand why so many suggest TGP as the way for a newbie to go. Personally I recommend a simple free site to get a feel for building, design and marketing, gradually building up their skills as they explore the other venues open to them.

In my experience, TGP has:

1. the worst conversions
2. the worst customer retention
3. the largest amount of customers that chargeback and/or trade passwords

In my opinion starting out with a TGP would be the worst choice...

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

TGP traffic is good traffic when it is used by someone who knows what they are doing. Those who don't understand TGP traffic or how to utilize it are the first to bitch about how poor it is.

I agree Lee, don't understand why so many suggest TGP as the way for a newbie to go. Personally I recommend a simple free site to get a feel for building, design and marketing, gradually building up their skills as they explore the other venues open to them.

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First of all Sean and since Lee started, I will finish. No newbie should start with a FREE host. Firstly, even in the old days when Free hosts were everywhere, they just stole your best advertising spots. Now with a free host and 2257. you have serious issues. They should start on the right foot. Have a virtual domain or a small dedicated where they can look at the stats. That is important to ANYONE in this business.

Second, I ran a link list for five or six years, maybe longer, and I NEVER alowed free hosted sites. For reasons that go on this scope of this thread. But anyone with half a clue knows the reasons.

Lee,

Times are a changing as you said. And honestly TGPs are good for many newbies. Sure they can't market properly, sure the first month the BW bill will be high, but when I first started it was $5 a gig, now it's around .50. BUT and this is a BIG but. It will take a surfer MUCH longer to master the art of making a sale with Link Lists than tgp because they will not get the huge traffic they get with tgp.

If they burn through 5 galleries and each gallery uses a few gigs and they don't make a sale, then a motivated newbie will go and figure out what he's doing wrong. And fix it. And then the skills he learned, maybe a better sponor, better designed gallery etc can carry over to his Link List skills.

The problem with Links Lists is that MANY of the bigger reject overused content even more so that Tgp's. And the traffic is not there. so mistakes beocome less obvious, or even a newbie could be doing everything right and still not get a sale. I know that I personally know how to make a site that sells and nowadays can submit it to the LL's nd maybe not make a sale. My next site a week later with the same layout and sponsors may make 5 sales. A motivated newbie may be under the impression that his first site was done wrong when it wasn't. then he creates another that's even worse. Then his third that is different than the first gets rejected for overused content. And lets not forget there is an art and science to both sites and galleries. The art of creating a better selling site is IMHO a steeper learning curve than a gallery. The trickle of traffic affect that happens in the LL market and how surfers respond is not as fast as in the tgp market. And content costs for enough sites in the LL market is extremely high.

This business is not what it was a few years ago. There needs to be a new class of newbie. The days of picking a free host, grabbing any cheap content you find, and making money are long gone. A newbie coming in now has to realize one hard fact - No matter what road he takes there is a learning curve and during that learning curve he will lose money.

IMHO if a newbie coming in can't take the BW risks, especially since the cost is so low compared to years ago. Then he really most likely is not the new breed of newbie that will ultimately make it in this industry.

Three years ago I would have recommended a newbie start with AVS. But now Avs traffic has dried up, avs sytems (the bigger ones) require cleaner pages. So the avs model has gone from one of leeching to forcing a webmaster to actually sell his site to make the most money.

The free site market is a bitch now. Just ask any LL owner how many sites he rejects in a day.

IMHO. the best way to learn anything or test anything, is with massive traffic/exposure. TGP's provide a model in that in a versy short period of time you can test many new ideas and ways of doin things for maximum game. If a newbie can't handle this now, it's a sad fact that he should not be in the business.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Sean,

Is there someone sat next to you forcing you to reply to EVERY thread that gets started?

Hell, even *I* dont reply to every thread and its my damn site.

You really do need to calm down a little and let others get a chance to reply to a thread before you come along and put everyone else off replying.

Regards,

Lee

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Lee,

Seriously, I was under the impression you paid him to post.

No sarcasm whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by dannyz

In my experience, TGP has:

1. the worst conversions
2. the worst customer retention
3. the largest amount of customers that chargeback and/or trade passwords

In my opinion starting out with a TGP would be the worst choice...

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The worst conversion, yes. But that can be filtered. And TGP traffic does better with a trial. Conceringretention, I would recommend a PPS so the webmaster doesnt stress so much. Part 3 if a newbie uses a PPS model he doesnt warry as much about it. Though IF all he sends is charge backs, then he may have an issue.

There are still SOME Tgp's out there that have traffic that can retain. But those tgps are not the ones that are just skimming like crazy. They built up bookmarkers.

One how does everyone know my name :eek:? 2 most of what people said did not disagree with what I said, if they are having problems with their bandwidth on TGP’s at first cutting into profits I think a GOOD free host could help in the learning curve while not making the go broke at the same time, would be a limited amount of them they could use but would get their feet wet. 3 of course this type of traffic is about the worst in the world, really to say much different is just argumentative.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

One how does everyone know my name :eek:? 2 most of what people said did not disagree with what I said, if they are having problems with their bandwidth on TGP’s at first cutting into profits I think a GOOD free host could help in the learning curve while not making the go broke at the same time, would be a limited amount of them they could use but would get their feet wet. 3 of course this type of traffic is about the worst in the world, really to say much different is just argumentative.

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No comment.

Hey Boston how about changing your name to Bean Boy :bush: Dont get mad was just a joke

Max,

Once again a thread turns fucking useless.

To bring it on track and answer your point about free hosts.

1. they are far and few between now.
2. They take you best ad spots.
3. They fuck with your international traffic and you don'e even know it.
4. You are not 2257 compiant unless the free host is a sponsor free host and owns the content.
5. If four is the case, chances are the tgp has all the content in hosted galleries anyways.
6. Why reccommend a newbie get banned from a tgp before he gets his first gallery us as most don't acceprt them.

7. I AM WRONG - YOU ARE RIGHT. So to all those trying to learn something listen to Max.

Max you are back on my ignore list. I thought it was unprifessional to do so. So I lifted you. But someone posts something to help a newbie and you give a reply that's half off topic and clearly shows that you have noot been posting to big tgp galleries that much on free hosts. And if you have please reveal which tgps accept whiche free hosts and which free hosts I am legal to use my own content on and still be 2257. And show me whiche free hosts doesnt fuck with internation traffic. Contribute your experience not your ignorance.

I gave a different view point than Lee but I backed it up with my experience. Unlike you that just throws shit out your ass. And a newbie should way in the different factors. Going boths routes can lead to disaster. The TGP route maybe faster. But fuck, I would rather know in a month with maybe a $200 bandwith bill and $100 in content if it wasn't for me than spend three months with a $90 bw bill (asuuming u are on a $30/ month plan) and dropping $300 in content figuring out the same thing. The other two months would give me time to try ebay or something else.

Well lets just see how right you are ok this site sucks and not the best free host “just the first one I saw” but lets just see how many people form overseas can not see it? http://www3.kinghost.com/gay/baa/ I am willing to bet only countries that I would probably block myself will not be able to see it. :thumbsup:

And how many tgp's will list a gallery on a free host with a fucking girl at the top. And IF you put your site in the Right category with the free host, you will get a guy banner at the top (the best spot to make a sale).

Max, you have only answered one of my questions. And still not really answered it with any facts whatsoever.

That site you gave has all stolen content, and even if it wasn't is not 2257 because the webmaster does not won the domain the content is on.

And what happens if I create a 100 sites on this freehost and then GMP decides to ban that free host, or linklists decide to (just as justusboys no longer does, just to name one of the biggest). Or the free host shuts down. A newbie webmaster is stuck with a bunch of sites that he either took the time to steal the content or actually purchase it that is totally useless.

And since this is a tgp/newbie thread list ALL the tgps that will accept galleries hosted on king host.

BTW, You as a paysite woner, I sure and hell hope this is not your site. The guy that runs allgayconetnt that this site has images from is a friend of mine and just got an email.

That’s not my site was just an example of the easiest point to test in public “people overseas could not see free hosts” I did say nor do I think this is the best free host for TGP’s or anything like that just a test.

I am going to have to get biblical on you with this one :) If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." - Matthew 18:9

In other words if your hosting bill is putting you in the poor house its best to fix the problem until you can make-it with out the free hosts.

"It is better not to wiseass nor to improperly disgrunt or humiliate thy neightbor until you have proven proper life without sin and theft. Then and only then thou might look down upon thy people and teach them thy words and life" ~ Mariano 06:19

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

"It is better not to wiseass nor to improperly disgrunt or humiliate thy neightbor until you have proven proper life without sin and theft. Then and only then thou might look down upon thy people and teach them thy words and life" ~ Mariano 06:19

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Ok man I got ya, but think ya might want to get a new bible LOL, how about something simple like

"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"—Matthew 19:19

"Thou shalt earn respect by work not by words" ~ Mariano 06:19

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Originally Posted by maxpower

That’s not my site was just an example of the easiest point to test in public “people overseas could not see free hosts” I did say nor do I think this is the best free host for TGP’s or anything like that just a test.

I am going to have to get biblical on you with this one :) If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." - Matthew 18:9

In other words if your hosting bill is putting you in the poor house its best to fix the problem until you can make-it with out the free hosts.

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Max,

1. HOW DID YOU PROVE THAT KING HOST IS NOT FUCKING WITH INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC?

2. IF your bandwith is putting you in the poor hose, then maybe this business is not for you or you dont have the capital to invest.

3. You still didnt answer my qesution based on your submitting experience what tgp's allow kinghost.

4. The best way to go out of business is rely on a host that you have no control over whatsoever. And I can tell you from knowledge that if you are not getting clicks to the free host sponsor, they will put a throttle on your bandwith.

5. I heard that you love to post on religious boards just to piss people off. Is that true here.

And finally I am buddhist so I don't give a crap about what you quote from the bible.

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Max,

1. HOW DID YOU PROVE THAT KING HOST IS NOT FUCKING WITH INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC?

2. IF your bandwith is putting you in the poor hose, then maybe this business is not for you or you dont have the capital to invest.

3. You still didnt answer my qesution based on your submitting experience what tgp's allow kinghost.

4. The best way to go out of business is rely on a host that you have no control over whatsoever. And I can tell you from knowledge that if you are not getting clicks to the free host sponsor, they will put a throttle on your bandwith.

5. I heard that you love to post on religious boards just to piss people off. Is that true here.

And finally I am buddhist so I don't give a crap about what you quote from the bible.

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I am not going to get dragged down to further into the muck with this, if some of our international guys like Devil here in Germany can not see it I would like to know. Other than that I do not want to play this game with you, really I have enough stress in my own work everyday as it is.

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

"Thou shalt earn respect by work not by words" ~ Mariano 06:19

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Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. I Corinthians 13:4-8

I could play this game all day :)

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I could play this game all day :)

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I believe that - who does your work?

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

I believe that - who does your work?

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Well just taking a break, but right now like I have said before I am waiting for me new graphics to be completed so I can really get going with this new site. I am creating Bios right now while my hosting company is transferring some videos for me, to tell the truth I have a few recurring members as it is, I could really only do like 6 hours of work a week if I really wanted to and pay my bills. Damn I can not work 18 hours straight every day, trying to build up the energy its going to take to get these new sites up, hell once I really get going I have 5 of them to do one after the other its going to take over a year or so maybe? How about you?

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I could really only do like 6 hours of work a week if I really wanted to and pay my bills.

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You are so full of shit and just waste people's time.

You imed me and asked me about your text and what I thought, and as many know who have imed me, know that i prefer phone.

Here is the conversation

abostonboy2003: wanna chat phone?

Nomad0023: do not have a phone

abostonboy2003: really?

abostonboy2003: dang

Nomad0023: spend all my $$ on my sites

Now you say you are making so much money you only need to work six hours to pay your bills.

Why not work six so you can pay your phone bill and stop wasting people's time.

Many may not realize that I have tried to help you, based on you contacing me, outside this forum. Even when eveyone said you are full of shit.

Look Mr. Bean have never blocked anyone before but I am blocking you now, do you really think I do not have a phone? Or is it more likely I did not want to give it to some freak that keeps chat records? :penny:

Trillian Pro does that. And when you have about 200 contacts (many of them clients) it shows respect knowing what you talked about before.

And it's actually useful when you conduct business as many times they give numbers, urls, and quite frankly you dont know who they are and what you were talking about until you actually look at what you have taked about before.

And the fact is you imed me for advice, i think i have every reason to ask you if you would prefer a phone call so we can take what was a 2 hr im session down to 20 minutes.

But even then you just wanted to waste time. That's my point.

Great way to start and get more free porn out there.
I knew people that paid for their porn a lot, now they don't anymore, and I can't blame them really

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Originally Posted by jIgG

Great way to start and get more free porn out there.
I knew people that paid for their porn a lot, now they don't anymore, and I can't blame them really

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I agree with the free tgp thing, and was excited about tgp2 (which bombed). Movie/reality sites with video really offer quality tgp porn now as well.

I use to like Link List traffic a lot. As a webmaster submiiting sites, but even link list have fallen into the tgp game to some extent and just offer a shitload of free porn.

As the links list evolve from what they use to be into the communities they are now, it's harder than ever to convert the traffic if you are a submitter.

I can't blame them as they realize a while ago that with new technolgy they can better capture the surfers dollar before they even hit a free site. And the surfers that actually hit a free site are not much better quality traffic than tgp.

Examples include the evolution of justusboys (and I admire the owners very musch when they had 1,000s and 1,000s of free exhibtions pics mostly to their evolving eye candy into what it is - a really clean tgp. To the site reviews, blog entries etc. What traffic finally hits the link list and goes out is mostly more people looking for free porn. Not much better than tgp traffic, as the chanes a surfer has been exposed to differnet forms of paysite upsells is immense. Good for the LL owner, a bit harder for the newbie webmasters.

Other Link Lists are doing this as well. It adds more to the bottom line of the LL owner.

Example. I was surfing my favorite LL and found a free site with a sponsor. Rather than join from the free site. I knew that gaydemon would have a review. So I went and read the review and joined from the review.

So, yes to paysite woner LL traffic is good. And in my cae of joining the conversions are probably good as well. But for the free site I visited. I lookaed at his pics, saw his sponsor, read a review from gaydemon and joined via the review.

What did that newbie webmaster get out of it? Nothing really?

Or if i really just want to get off, I could goto eyecandy and see enough seancody or corbin or whatever galleries and probably do the same. When cross referenced like that its so easy for the person just looking for free porn, even more easier in some ways than a tgp as the galleries for that site are all marked. Check out all eye candy for site xyz.

At least w/ tgp's it is a little more diffucult to find 20 galleries of site xyx all lined up.

Bottom line: limiting free porn was tried w/ tgp2 and failed. Now its not just tgp's but link list through there gallery sections that are offering the same free content found on TGP's. I understand that they have to maximize their traffic base to a model that makes them money. It's just harder for the newbie webmaster to make a sale. Instead of creating 5 sites for x amount of sales it may take 20 OR great skill in creating a traffic trap in your own network to filter the traffci through.

Who knows what it will be like two years from now.

BTW, I am not critcizing justusboys or gaydemon as they are two of my favorite sites. Just offering an opinion based on my traffic to these and others that they are fidning better ways to maxamize their traffic to sponsors befor it even hits a free site. Very sound business.

Even site like Hunkhunter that offer the awards for best sites that are posted everywhere make it harder to make a sale.

That's why my advice is think nice niche niche. It's the best way to make money.