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Hi guys, just wondering which free AVS works best for you.
I have been with SexKey for years now which have worked well for me but I want to expand using other “free” systems.
SK seems to work great for both gay and straight content, can anyone suggest others?
I’d appreciate any help that I can get.
Thanks!
I loom forward to seeing the replies from the Xperts
How many usernames does Miami Studios need on GWW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Twins Porn
Regards,
Lee
ooooh, sidestepping that one, thank you...
Most of the webmasters that still use the free services use SexKey/Mansites. They seem to be the only pro-active free service, the other ones don't seem to be advertising and basically are just out there.
Yep SexKey/Mansites are the end all be all for free AVS's. I will be shocked if we ever see another free AVS worth a crap as long as I live, of for that matter another AVS at all. Its all about discoed itself out :square:
New AVS's are not as rare as you think. The business model has just shifted to the AEN/broadband/movie download type of site. www.PrideAccess.com, a new sponsor of GWW, has a pretty nifty program. Check them out if you think AVS is dying. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Well for me the only cool thing about AVS was the traffic, these new sites are almost useless to me. They are more like large affiliate programs with many crappy sites that have the same content in all the sites. If I want to promote a site I will try to match the site as well as I can to the content I am offering, this shot gun approach just does not work every good for me, and I would rather spend my time and traffic on something that converts better. I would not say these new types of sites are really a spin on AVS as much as they are a spin on a more standard affiliate programs. Its a ok smoke and mirrors approach, but the sites you promote are not your sites in really anyway, but I do know you like them so I guess if they work with what you want to do then go for it.
The sites you promote can be your sites if you have the design skills to make them. MANY offer dvd movies or you can license your own. Either way you can make a site that just you can market or in some cases set up your own affiliate program and have others market.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I totally agree with you MAX that the model of submitting a site and getting good credit card traffic (leeching) as you like to do is getting harder, but even that can still be done IF you know what you are doing!
This whole “leaching” thing bothers me a bit about all this, after all I have to provide the content, create the site, and the traffic as well have a dozen other things. If I am not going to be provided with good traffic I can use for other projects to better filter it I see very little help all this could offer me. After all I can take CC all on my own, and if I am creating the sites, providing sales, driving the traffic to the sites, and everything else what do I really get other than fucked by a company that is trying to cock block me? Its a cool idea to give new people the illusion they are really in control of a “site” while at the same time you have totally control over others content and work as well as able to set rules that benefit you, while making money off of them with very little individual investment. Now who’s the leach?
BTW AVS traffic is not as good as it was 5 years ago, most of viewers have become very wary of all the upsales they have been constantly exposed to while at the same time more AVS sites are creating ever increasingly stricter rules to make it harder for webmaster to make a living and improve their own profits, in fact AVS sales numbers are worse than free sites traffic because of allot of this stuff and other things.
I can only say this so many times Max... but you are wrong. I OWN the vast majority of the content on my AEN sites. I have 100,000 of pics and many dozens of movies on my AEN sites. I have designed all of them myself with the exception of my PrideAccess sites (the have a GREAT designer). At the end of the day, I can turn them into pay sites in about 10 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I know you seem to think you can only work on a single project at a time. But it's never a bad idea to diversify. Most people will tell you to expand your income-earning potential by expanding into other areas.
Btw Max, I blame webmasters like you for the demise of the old-style AVS. Webmasters like you just want the traffic from the AVSs so you build dozens of crappy templated sites every week with old, sponsor or public domain content.
You add no value to the AVS at all. You just leach the traffic from other webmasters that actually bring their own traffic to the AVS and submit quality galleries with new and/or exclusive content.
BLEAH!
each webmaster works differently. If your running paysites you need to leech abit of avs traffic. I do it all the time, but i also make my sites the best i can with the best design and content i can, so the avs does benefit too even if that particular site doesnt make many sales. its still good content for them.
The problem with AVS is webmasters who look at it as a traffic source only. If you don't actually try selling the AVS at all and you're just looking for traffic, you're going to find the experience very dissatisfying. Do you really think AVS sites are stupid and don't know everyone wants their traffic? Do you think they just sit back and allow it to happen?
Why do you suppose that AVS/AEN sites have such complicated rules and submission guidelines?
Let's look at Rainbow Passport as an example. If you submit a gallery with even one single traffic leak to a link list or other paysite on the tour pages, your site is approved and dropped to "tier 2." This means your script works, but you don't ever show up in their listings or search engines, so baby, as far as traffic goes, you're on your own. If you submit a clean gallery with no outside traffic leaks, you're a tier 1 and in the search engine. And most AVS/AEN sites work like this. Some like DeluxePass allow no traffic leaks anywhere inside or out.
If you submit crap, they'll happily approve it, this way if some traffic happens to stumble across your site and clicks the join button, they've got your traffic. But crap always sinks to the bottom. They don't show your site in their listings or they bury it so deep that it's at the bottom of 98,000 other sites and no surfer will ever find you.
If you submit galleries that try to sell the AVS/AEN service (and try and upsell their premium products) then you'll earn more favour with the AVS/AEN. They'll list you and rank you higher in their search engines because they recognize you're creating a good product for them.
My best advice to the traffic-seeking webmasters is to simply stop wasting your time building bullshit galleries. You're just burning up your time and money. If you put the effort into creating a better product, you'll (a) make some money off AVS memberships (and what's the difference whether you're getting a cheque from UGAS or Sean Cody) and (b) you'll be able to get more traffic to your site because your gallery's getting more exposure.
AVS is dying only because most webmasters didn't ever figure out how to make them work so they moved on to free sites, TGPs, links lists, paysites, and now blogs and review sites. You know how quickly and how much this business changes, why do you think 1999 tactics are still going to work in 2006?
Cheers,
Michael
i know your not really aiming that solely at me, but i did say that i allways build quality sites to the best of my ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
i do try to sell avs passwords, my problem is that im crap with google so i end up sending tgp traffic which doesnt convert as well allthough i make avs sales and see it as a bonus.
i also upsell to premium avs, so i do benefit the avs in many ways.
do i think avs's are stupid? yep - look through the links list of any avs and see the shite they except.
whats the difference bewteen a ugas check and sean cody check? well i wouldnt piss on ugas if they were on fire. i certainly wouldnt sell my soul to them (allthough i think dave is an ace guy). so thats a bad example for me, but in general i welcome checks from avs's, i just welcome checks from sponors too. the avs does very nicley from webmasters so wheres the harm in us getting more back? they are not our friends. there in it to make cold hard cash and so am i. they use us and we use them. both the avs and the contributors benefit.
Actually Marc, my comments weren't directly at you personally or specifically. But rather I was addressing the pervasive attitude that the only thing AVS is good for is getting traffic, but that doesn't work. It's a fallacy. Most AVS hubs stop webmasters dead in their tracks, they only think they're pulling one over on the AVS.
It's like TGPs, if you cheat, you either get a reputation or you get banned. Short-sightedness doesn't get webmasters anywhere.
Cheers
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcjacob
Yes I do the same I understand I try to offer sites their members will like, that was ok a few years ago but most AVS has not changed in 5 years and they blame us for their poor conversion numbers now. The whole thing is a joke, I am supposed to waist my traffic on a program that converts less than 40% of what I could get from that traffic, “with out any other filtering allowed as well” and for less money on each sale. They want everything and give back almost nothing in return. Who care about their Mickey Mouse :gaydays: sales, I mean I am sure some still try really hard to promote just 1 AVS and do ok with rare themes but that is allot of work for a company that really gives you nothing and expects you to do all their work for them. Its a good idea to just create a directory and except everyone to provide you with all the content, sites, traffic, themes, sales, ECT while you take most of the money, but most people are now not going to play that game anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
LOL ya I am going to run right out and provide some AVS sites with exclusive or brand new content, you must be joking. Hell do I get to suck their dick at the same time too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Its just with all that content it sounds like you are wasting your time using it to make them money. I want to create my OWN sites not lose 50% + of the money I can make from it. I do understand its a safely blanket for some, but again I am not going to play that game. If traffic was unlimited I would be more than happy to spread it around, but that is not the world I live in.
BTW anyone that can create a members site in 10 minutes have just wasted 10 minutes if you ask me.
If webmasters submit crappy templted sites and thats destroying avs, why do the avs's take those sites? If AVS porn needs re branding then the avs's themeselves need to lead that. Looking at the links lists, they dont seem to care.
Personally i dont submit templated sites when leaching. Ive worked out that i get more traffic from less but better quality sites. Going for top tier gets more traffic = more hits to my paysite = more sales for me, and as a side product of that, the surfer gets a better website with better porn. its win win all arround imo.
i certainly dont feel sorry for the avs's, most of which are multi million dollar companies getting richer off the backs of us poorer and probably much harder working webmasterws. they also ultimately choose which sites to except so imo, they take the blame for having link lists full of crap.
Ya they created this monster, and now want to blame others for it. The thing is its not worth the time to create the supper type of sites you talk about if it was people would do it allot more. In fact if the took down all the sites you talk about they would have almost nothing to promote. Everyone is trying to make a living, if it was really the best way to go they would be doing it. As it stands now AVS is less than 10% of my sales and I expect them to be 5% or less in a few years.
The only reason you have to make template sites as far as some of the designs is that if you can not create a huge amount of them you can not get any traffic or money from doing it at all. I do try to change it up, and create a whole new template every 6 months or so but again its not worth the time to do much more.
where do the rest of it come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcjacob
I guess you are talking about super high quality sites in AVS, I would say most come from webmaster experimenting and finding its not worth the trouble, and they can do allot better with smaller sites.
I do that all the time. Some of my avs sites with only one set of exclusive content convert at 1:50. Drive 10,000 uniques to it and you make a nice ROI.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I do hear allot that bear and some other rare content still does ok with some AVS, but still not sure I would be providing them with exclusive content but that is all up to you man. I have experimented with many many different types of “twink” AVS sites and must say I make 3X+ as much from the spongers I run in them than the program themselves, now all this would be ok, but they now do not have much traffic anymore and are expecting way to much from us. I can only get so many sites accepted in a directory at a time so I have to go with he biggest bang for my buck, and I would much rather run a free sites than a AVS any day for a huge number of reasons.
max - theres a huge difference between prideaccess.com and what you are talking about.... you should inform better before telling others what they should or shouldnt do.... the advantages of being part of a program like prideaccess are huge, and if you cant see them it doesnt mean that they dont exist...
If I am not mistaken, and after listening to Max, I think I maybe wrong. Doesn't Pride Access allow a webmaster to create his own site.Quote:
Originally Posted by THY
I thought you did. Now I am confused. I know you can with others. I have sites in them.
I have never been to a board before where a moderator (Max) can cause so much confusion.
Yes they do allow you to create your own sites however, many affiliates prefer sending traffic to the ones that PrideAccess create.Quote:
Originally Posted by realtoughbear
Just so you know, Max ISNT and never will be a moderator on GWW, think of him as the proverbial village idiot that every board needs to have, except with not a lot of emphasis on 'proverbial' ;)Quote:
I have never been to a board before where a moderator (Max) can cause so much confusion.
Regards,
Lee
i know a number of people who have bought houses with the type of avs sites that max says doesn't work. i also know people who shoot exclusive original content for their avs's and have tons of recurring members. i myself used to have a bunch of recurring members with some premium avs's.
i also got regular checks from sexkey and freeagecard.
max is definitely NOT an expert here, and dzinerbear worked for mancheck for a long time, so i'd listen to him before max - long before ;)
Thank you for clearing that up.
Just how often do I have to make a point to you before it sinks in? We've had this discussion before and it's getting very tiring. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower
I buy content... exclusive, semi-exclusive and non-exclusive and I use it as many ways as possible. I have probably spent over $100,000 on content in the past 2 or 3 years. Why not use it 50 times in different venues?
Now I know buying content is a new concept for you since until very recently you used "borrowed" and/or "public domain" content. But once you have reinvested a large portion of your income in content, you will never understand.
i know im quite new here, but i think max contributes somthing valuable to the board. He has some different ideas of posting sure, but he keeps converstation flowing and is quite funny. GWW wouldnt be the same without him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
It used to be much better without him. People like basschick and many others would contribute more. Now they usually stay out of any thread that he has tainted.Quote:
Originally Posted by marcjacob
what dzinerbear says is true - it was pretty recently that max's paysite used stolen content. max doesn't actually know very much about adult, so he makes guesses based only on limited experience and personal opinion and everyone who knows about the business gets disgusted and the newbs believe him so they may make changes that will hurt their businesses.
the truth is that most of the experienced posters here post less and less with max. gww was much better before he was here. he's an attention whore who would rather make a guess than use stats and find out facts - and then he will either argue with or even insult the experienced webmasters if they point out any facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcjacob
I know, I found it quite funny that Max knows so much about the AVS market and contradicted much of what I offered. I mean, sheez, who did I just finish working for last month?
Michael
Hi folks.
This is an interesting thread.
I'm not sure what Dzinerbear meant by this quote.
"Most AVS hubs stop webmasters dead in their tracks, they only think they're pulling one over on the AVS."
I am working to design a site or two a week, and I would have a central page listing them all. This should
be ok right?
that should be a great idea, and it is a hub for your avs sites :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctronic
What he is saying is that if an AVS feels you are stealing the traffic and not making any sales, then you will get buried on their hub (maybe he should have said link list). Basically they will either limit the sites you can submit or bury you on page 129.Quote:
Originally Posted by coctronic
What you are creating is a hub. And if you market the sites as your hub grows, so will your sales. You bring the surfer into your traffic trap and make them find something they want. Most avs webmasters notice a bump in sales once they get 10 - 20 sites in the hub. Some sooner, some later. Really depends on your design and selling ability and your niche. I can't sell a twink site to save my life. But that's just me. I don't know where to begin. Just try and make sure they are all related in some way to the general niche. Not a great idea to be putting twink sites in a bear hub. That can really turn off both groups. But you can go outside the niche a bit. Leather is ok with bears as is older men and rough sex.
Or not even list you at all in their search engine/link list, so you're getting absolutely nothing from them. Your script works, so if someone finds your site and they've got a membership they can get in. But you won't be seeing any traffic or help from the AVS.
Michael
Ahhhh thank you.
I understand it now.
Also, I usually promote sponsors within the sites.
Are you saying it might be better to use promotional
material from the AVS to upsell to their upper level
programs? I hadn't really thought about it that much.