CCBill - What Is Your Refund Policy Please?

So far as surfers becoming members of a site for 3 hours then calling customer support for a refund AFTER they have downloaded GIGS of content?

Quite frankly, if a member downloads a couple of hundred gigs of content i dont expect them to be refunded.. No matter what.

Would be nice to know what your policy is exactly on offering surfers free access to paysite members areas because, thats pretty much whats happening when your customer service muppets do that.

The member liked the sites content so much that they grabbed hundreds of gigs of movies before calling customer support 3 hours later so i really dont expect them to get refunded, no questions asked!

Regards,

Lee

lee, i most cases your options are

1. refund
2. get a chargeback

a chargeback counts against your account AND against ccbill. and a chargeback costs a fee where a refund does not. we did a chargeback at our bank by accident - that's how easy it is.

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Originally Posted by Lee

So far as surfers becoming members of a site for 3 hours then calling customer support for a refund AFTER they have downloaded GIGS of content?

Quite frankly, if a member downloads a couple of hundred gigs of content i dont expect them to be refunded.. No matter what.

Would be nice to know what your policy is exactly on offering surfers free access to paysite members areas because, thats pretty much whats happening when your customer service muppets do that.

The member liked the sites content so much that they grabbed hundreds of gigs of movies before calling customer support 3 hours later so i really dont expect them to get refunded, no questions asked!

Regards,

Lee

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I know what the options are but im trying to understand how a surfer can join a site, get access for 3 hours whilst downloading hundreds of gigs of content and then call up and get a refund without CCBill even bothering to contact me.

In cases like this, i really would much rather that the surfer issued a chargeback and wasnt able to access any other site that used CCBill as a processor.

If i wanted to give surfers my content for free id offer free trials.

Regards,

Lee

I don't think CCBill is able to monitor usage once a member's accessed your site. They have no way of knowing how many gigs of content that individual has downloaded.

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

They have no way of knowing how many gigs of content that individual has downloaded.

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Thats exactly my point yet, they issue refunds anyway.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

So far as surfers becoming members of a site for 3 hours then calling customer support for a refund AFTER they have downloaded GIGS of content?

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Dang :D I'd love to have your and the guys connection

Limit bandwith to somewhat acceptable so he can watch the movies online streaming. I dunno if strongbox helps against it but i heared only good things about it...

develish

I want to know how the customer downloaded hundreds of gigs of content in 3 hours! What kind of connection is he on?

I want me some of that whatever it is.... ;)

But i feel your pain Lee. I think their policy is, and almost has to be, refund, no questions asked. In the day when charging back is a no challenge situation for the consumer, and when you as the merchant have no 100% positive (acceptable) proof (card in hand transaction) that the cardholder is the one who actually joined your site..... the billing company
is going to refund before a potential chargeback every time.

The threshold for fines by Visa and MC are very low, and to adopt a hard line policy of refusing to refund will result in a higher chargeback percentage...something that has brought down other billing processors in the past.

From my experience all of the credit card processors have the same policy. If a customer asks for a credit give it to them ESPECIALLY on small ticket items.

The same will happen if you call Visa and ask for a credit as well, so why would our processors act any differently and put themselves at risk?

What site of yours has hundreds of gigs of content? I might want to promote it

Welcome to the world of operating a paysite. That is just the way it is, doesn't matter who the processor is. All of the sponsored merchant services agreements I've ever seen say that the processor will refund without notifying the site owner. Its their merchant account on the line, you lose $30, they could lose millions.

Its annoying, but it is just one of the costs of doing business.

These are all very valid points, however, I do see exactly where Lee's frustration is coming from. No one likes having to distribute a refund, especially when you know that the consumer has grabbed as much content as they possibly can.

What I can tell you is that CCBill does its best to avoid having to issue a refund on a subscription, as these are funds that we take a loss on as well. As mentioned in another post, we have no way to tell the quantity of content that was downloaded from any site, but can only check if access is available to that particular site at the time when the consumer calls our support line.

Please let me know if you have any questions.


Regards,
James A
Client Support Supervisor
Clientsupport@ccbill.com
1-800-510-2859

I don't know, would you rather be right, or be in business?

Yeah it sucks and it's not fair. But it's one sale. Let it go, move on, there'll be another one in an hour or maybe less.

It's kinda like running a variety store, you have to factor into your operating costs that every once in a while a kid is going run in, grab a chocolate bar, and run like the dickens.

Michael

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

I don't know, would you rather be right, or be in business?

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I think the frustration here is that, from what has been said in previous threads, if a customer accesses your site, and then gets a credit from CCBill, as a merchant we have no way through CCBill to block them from accessing our site again, and doing the same thing over, and over and over again.

CCBill is a great company but all processors have their priorities

#1 making MC/Visa happy

#2 stopping the customers from charging back

#3 the merchant... you know.. the guy who pays 14% off each sale to be the third priority :groovy:

I have to say that I've dealt with CCBill and have had excellent service. Unfortunately the dynamics of any processor merchant relationship is the same, whether in adult or not, whether dealing with CCBill or any other processor.

What I was told when I asked the same question was that the CCBill reps pretty much refused to give a refund UNLESS the customer made it pretty clear they were going to call the bank and do a chargeback.

I believe that what we as site owners should start doing is go after these abusers, both the bogus chargeback abusers and the refund abusers. I know at one point there was a collection agency that was experimenting with buying chargebacks, bad checks, and refunds (very cheap... 5 or 15 cents on the dollar...) and then aggressively pursuing them. If it's still around, that would be a good option.

Even better though... If someone with knowledge of the industry started going after these bastards armed with access logs with IP addresses, you could probably scare people into paying... and once they realized that there actually *is* a severe penalty for fraud, word would probably get around and the incidence of this sort of thing would probably drop considerably.

Sorry guys, but I really think some of you are blowing this was out of proportion. I really hate refunds too, but its extremely rare personally I average one about every 4 months or so. I am sure if and when I start doing a much higher volume I will incur a few more during the same time, but really its not that big of a problem. Trust me if it was I would be the first to get on the bandwagon with yall on this stuff. I am sure Ccbill keeps up with these people in some way, and the same ones are not just doing this over and over again. If you want to talk about a real problem this is nothing compared to all the bad checks you get if you guys even still take them at all.

I know somebody (no, not me!) who runs a non-erotic site.

When somebody does a chargeback saying he didn't sign up for the account that guy writes an email back with a legal document that guy has to sign stating that he in no case never signed up for the account.

With that legal doc (IF signed *grin*) that guy goes straight to the police with access logs, user account data, email account information and such and files a report against "John Doe" about fraud, computer manipulation, data manipulation and hands over that information.

Usually though people remember that they indeed signed up and happily wire the funds


DEVELISH

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

I know somebody (no, not me!) who runs a non-erotic site.

When somebody does a chargeback saying he didn't sign up for the account that guy writes an email back with a legal document that guy has to sign stating that he in no case never signed up for the account.

With that legal doc (IF signed *grin*) that guy goes straight to the police with access logs, user account data, email account information and such and files a report against "John Doe" about fraud, computer manipulation, data manipulation and hands over that information.

Usually though people remember that they indeed signed up and happily wire the funds


DEVELISH

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Ya that would be a great idea if it was Halloween and we wanted to scare the Hell out of any potentially customers, but despite popular option I am not that big of a asshole. :wtf:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Ya that would be a great idea if it was Halloween and we wanted to scare the Hell out of any potentially customers, but despite popular option I am not that big of a asshole. :wtf:

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I think that getting a credit once every 4 months puts you in a different league then others getting credits on a more frequent basis.

If you owned a store and customers kept coming in and taking things without paying you'd want recourse to take action.

People are coming into our stores and taking things, what is our recourse?

Come up with a workable solution for us, and implement it. You'll be rich

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I think that getting a credit once every 4 months puts you in a different league then others getting credits on a more frequent basis.

If you owned a store and customers kept coming in and taking things without paying you'd want recourse to take action.

People are coming into our stores and taking things, what is our recourse?

Come up with a workable solution for us, and implement it. You'll be rich

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Its hard for me to even imagine the volume of sales that it would take before this would really become a problem. If I am only losing like 0.1-0.3 at the very most do to this I really can not see a problem that is really worth getting all uptight about. Now checks hell I lose like 60-75% of them, but I don’t take checks anymore :)

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Its hard for me to even imagine the volume of sales that it would take before this would really become a problem. If I am only losing like 0.1-0.3 at the very most do to this I really can not see a problem that is really worth getting all uptight about. Now checks hell I lose like 60-75% of them, but I don’t take checks anymore :)

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I was just about to write how many sales that guy makes a day (seen that stats) and tell ya - its worth the hassle he undergoes :D

in the end about 3-5% remain solid on what they say and resist to pay and sign the legal doc mentioned and everything goes its way....

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

I was just about to write how many sales that guy makes a day (seen that stats) and tell ya - its worth the hassle he undergoes :D

in the end about 3-5% remain solid on what they say and resist to pay and sign the legal doc mentioned and everything goes its way....

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Why the hell would anyone sign a legal document then mail/fax it to this guy, then not pay? And who makes customers do that before a sale? WTF is this guy selling? If you stupid enough to sign a document after you decide to not pay, them you probably can not remember you name in the first place.

This whole thing sounds really fishy to me :wacko:

http://www.worldslargestgiftshop.com...of_BS-0001.jpg
http://www.lexapis.com/images/bs_meter.gif

you do have recourse - you can send collections after them. i used to contact them myself back a few years and some actually sent us checks after i explained that using a site and claiming you didn't is actually bank fraud.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Why the hell would anyone sign a legal document then mail/fax it to this guy, then not pay? And who makes customers do that before a sale? WTF is this guy selling? If you stupid enough to sign a document after you decide to not pay, them you probably can not remember you name in the first place.

This whole thing sounds really fishy to me :wacko:

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You are somewhat confused, max... let me explain it to you


The customer buys someting - like a membership over the internet - he gets the account data and loggs in.

The site owner send email-paymet-reminders to which the customers respond (usually) and requests payments.

Then when he has to pay for that account he either pays regularly or he sais that he had't used it OR his kid used it OR somebody must have enteres his data.

If a customer insists on NOT having entered the data (then of course sombody else did) he receives a legal doc and testifies under oath that customer did not enter his data for payment. With the document signed and the login data, email address where the data was sent to, IP which was saved upon filling out payment form, usage statistics for that IP inside member are the site owner files a report at the local police against "Unknown". This way he can make the Telcom hand out the IP-Owner data for that given time of use - everything goes its full fledged legal ways then.

When the customer receives this document usually they remember when they did enter it and pay - the partial amnesia is gone :-)

Clear? :D

How much is this for? Sounds like allot of crap for 24.95. You said membership right only adult sites have memberships like that that I know of, well a few others but they cost even less that most adult sites. All I can say is this guy sounds like a really uptight asshole, on a power trip. I do not know if he’s a German or not, but I do know some German’s have a reputation for being like his though.

I wish you would tell us more like the type of site “what he sales”, the amount of the charge, and the last time this guy had sex. But I am going to bed so this will have to wait until tomorrow, but please tell me what site this guy has so I never promote him. Its cool to try to make people pay for what the use, but this is going over the line if you ask me.

And BTW people do not have to deal with him at all to get a refund or a charge back, I still do not see why anyone would sign shit. If 1 out of 25 “4%” or 5% 1 out of 20 people are wanting a refund or a charge back, maybe he should be working to improving his service more that playing E-Cop. :2ymca:

Sleep well max :D

It was sooooo nice for the few days Max wasn't around.

If everyone could just go back to ignoring him, we could continue sharing useful information here on GWW.

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Originally Posted by DEVELISH

Sleep well max :D

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Thax man and good morning :sun: I do tend to get a bit bitchy at the end of my 18 hour days hu :(

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

It was sooooo nice for the few days Max wasn't around.

If everyone could just go back to ignoring him, we could continue sharing useful information here on GWW.

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*Coughs* Asshole :honest: