Ethics In The Adult Industry? Do They Exist?

The only reason i ask is that as of late im starting to see a lot more webmasters openly bragging about stealing scripts, downloading music and movies off the net without paying for them and a whole heap of other stuff that, quite frankly, if you said in public you'd end up being arrested for.

Do you think that because we all work in the adult industry, a lot webmasters somehow think they are 'immune' to having any ethics or morals about what is right and wrong?

I realize my ethics and morals may not be the same as yours and vice versa but, when it comes to blatent theft, in an industry rife with shaving, content theft, traffic hijacking etc that is constantly frowned upon in public, you would figure these same people bitching and complaining about the things i just mentioned would have some kind of moral/ethical values that would stop them from stealing shit of others.

Your thoughts? Do a lot of webmasters think they dont need to have any 'values' because they work in the industry or, do you think it is something more than that?

Regards,

Lee

Porn didn’t get the stigma of being shady because everyone gets together to put a portion of profits into a toys for tots account or maintain a line of what not to cross.

There is no “real” band of brothers or guild of elders – “Pay me for my info”

When you find a design that is working for someone else, a clever set of keywords or a new feature offered to its members, do you not steal their thunder in hopes it will work for you too?

Theft at what scale? When is it ok to steal and when is it not?

I don’t agree with or support theft on any level but in a world where everything seems like the wheel reinvented how do you know what is fresh without it being groundbreaking?

I don’t think people are feeling “immune” as much as they have no feelings on it to begin with.

yes some do have effics, those of us that do probably dont make as much as those who dont.

who said cheats never prosper (my nan, often!). cheats do, until they get caught.

i like to think what goes arround comes arround. i do unto others and all that.

mind you, im not proud to admit that i, and every freind whos on the net i have, will have at one point downloaded a pirated dvd or music file.

none of us are totally honest, who hasnt lied at some point? what makes me different is that i know doing that is wrong and dont want to do it again.

Every industry has sleazebags that lie, cheat, steal. Hell, some of the biggest corporations out there like Bank of America and the cell companies do stuff that is unethical as hell and is intentionally designed to bilk the average customer that isn't sophisticated enough to realize they're being shafted. I think that, as a whole, American society's ethics have really gone downhill considerably in the past ~15 -20 years.

But as for the adult industry specifically... well, I think there are some people in the industry who are extremely upstanding, ethical, good people that would help their fellow webmasters out in a heartbeat, and others who are total sleazebags that would stomp on someone while they're down. I haven't been in the industry for long enough to comment on now vs 10 years ago, but if I were to guess based on my limited knowledge, I'd say that if anything, we are probably moving in the direction of *more* ethics and professionalism in the industry, simply because the industry as a whole is "growing up" (Maxpower excluded) and as there are more and larger companies in the marketplace, stakes are larger and companies will perhaps act more professionally simply because they need to.

Or I could be full of shit :)

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

..as for the adult industry specifically... well, I think there are some people in the industry who are extremely upstanding, ethical, good people that would help their fellow webmasters out in a heartbeat..

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There are some people like this in our industry and, just like in any business, when you find good people nuture those relationships and do business with them as much as you can.

Ethics and morals isn't the end all and be all of business... but if you're doing business with someone that lacks morals and ethics then there's nothing protecting you from being their next target :drunk:

Why is it always that the "other people" are the ones who do not have ethics, but "we" always do.

There's an ethics problem? Present company excepted, to be sure...

I'm not very sure of the reliability or accuracy of judging others' ethics, but I would presume that our business has the same bell curve of ethics operations as anywhere else.

If you want to work with other people, which is required in business, you are going to have to develop a reputation. Look at how people consistently buy more and pay higher amounts with eBay sellers who have lots of positive feedback, versus those who have no feedback.

It's like with anything else. If you are here this week to make a buck, you will act differently then if you are here to progress your future livelihood.

Steve

Most people care about the bottom line. Period.

When you talk about ethics, you need to talk about ethics to both other webmasters and customers. Some do one better than the other.

Just look at Jasun's post earlier where he mentioned most people take the $5 more non recurring option and join again. Is this ethically right to the affiliate who sent the member? You mentioned shaving. This is worse than shaving, yet the company is probably not even aware to many it is ethically wrong. Now my ethics maybe different than others as you stated.

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Originally Posted by realtoughbear

Most people care about the bottom line. Period.

When you talk about ethics, you need to talk about ethics to both other webmasters and customers. Some do one better than the other.

Just look at Jasun's post earlier where he mentioned most people take the $5 more non recurring option and join again. Is this ethically right to the affiliate who sent the member? You mentioned shaving. This is worse than shaving, yet the company is probably not even aware to many it is ethically wrong. Now my ethics maybe different than others as you stated.

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Would you rather no option with no rebilling and lose a sale?

Its catch 22 really, you either make a sale from one of those surfers who dont like rebills or, you dont, id rather take the money from 1 join and no rebills than no money at all and waste a paying surfer.

If you dont like the join options, dont send traffic, thats your choice to make.

Regards,

Lee

I would rather have it be my choice. It is my traffic. And I have run enough paysites to know the game. I also know that once you hit 20+ as the starting point for a membership, it makes little difference.

In my example I gave, the affilaite gets 12.50, the website $88.

So would I rather lose a sale here and there to get a recurring member. You bet your ass I would....

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Originally Posted by realtoughbear

I would rather have it be my choice. It is my traffic. And I have run enough paysites to know the game. I also know that once you hit 20+ as the starting point for a membership, it makes little difference.

In my example I gave, the affilaite gets 12.50, the website $88.

So would I rather lose a sale here and there to get a recurring member. You bet your ass I would....

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You have a choice though...

Send traffic. Dont send traffic.

Your choice doesnt really get any more complicated than that $0.02

Regards,

Lee

[QUOTE=Lee;159685]

If you dont like the join options, dont send traffic, thats your choice to make.
/QUOTE]

I agree. I wont. I think it's ethically wrong.

I don't see how it's ethically wrong...

we're not lying to them, and in fact, we'd rather they buy the cheaper, recurring membership.. they're more likely to stay.

We'd rather they didn't buy the non-recurring membership, but we offer it to them anyway. The customer is completely aware that they're paying an extra five dollars for the comvienience of not having to bother canceling the membership at the end of the month... some are nervous that even if they DO choose to cancel their membership, it will continue to rebill.

We have never lied to our customers or even tried to sway them one way or the other..

I'm completely confused as to why you think it's unethical to offer customers more choices for billing. We also offer a membership that's $60 for three months that will rebill at a lower rate than the one month recurring.

You have a problem with THAT too?

:catfight:






HOWEVER.. What I DO find unethical are companies that lie to their models about what kind of work they'll be expected to do.. who they're modelling for.. what the clientele of the site is..

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Originally Posted by Jasun

I don't see how it's ethically wrong...

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I think realtoughbear's viewpoint is a minority view. Affiliates can vote with their traffic, and if they don't like sites offering nonrecurring memberships, they don't have to send traffic there. But I think most sites do offer them now... this may be another byproduct of higher VOD usage, where customers are starting to think in a pay-as-you-go mode rather than a membership mode. I haven't heard any other affiliates complain about this, and like Fratmen, we also offer high-dollar signups with cheap recurring memberships, as well as high-dollar *nonrecurring* memberships... and our affiliates seem to like them, because a lot of our members seem to join at the $40 and up membership levels.

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HOWEVER.. What I DO find unethical are companies that lie to their models about what kind of work they'll be expected to do.. who they're modelling for.. what the clientele of the site is..

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Totally agree, and sadly, it's all too common.

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Originally Posted by Jasun

I don't see how it's ethically wrong...

we're not lying to them, and in fact, we'd rather they buy the cheaper, recurring membership.. they're more likely to stay.

We'd rather they didn't buy the non-recurring membership, but we offer it to them anyway. The customer is completely aware that they're paying an extra five dollars for the comvienience of not having to bother canceling the membership at the end of the month... some are nervous that even if they DO choose to cancel their membership, it will continue to rebill.

We have never lied to our customers or even tried to sway them one way or the other..

I'm completely confused as to why you think it's unethical to offer customers more choices for billing. We also offer a membership that's $60 for three months that will rebill at a lower rate than the one month recurring.

You have a problem with THAT too?

:catfight:






HOWEVER.. What I DO find unethical are companies that lie to their models about what kind of work they'll be expected to do.. who they're modelling for.. what the clientele of the site is..

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No. I only have a problem with a company that offers say a $5 increase in price to get them to signup to a non recurring option. Then comes on the board and brags about how many surfers take it, then rejoin again. Why not make is $10 difference? Or set the cookie for a longer period of time so the affiliate gets credit for it?

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Originally Posted by realtoughbear

No. I only have a problem with a company that offers say a $5 increase in price to get them to signup to a non recurring option. Then comes on the board and brags about how many surfers take it, then rejoin again. Why not make is $10 difference? Or set the cookie for a longer period of time so the affiliate gets credit for it?

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I have to say that I DO like the cookie being set longer, and maybe that's something we'll look at. :baa:

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Originally Posted by realtoughbear

No. I only have a problem with a company that offers say a $5 increase in price to get them to signup to a non recurring option. Then comes on the board and brags about how many surfers take it, then rejoin again. Why not make is $10 difference? Or set the cookie for a longer period of time so the affiliate gets credit for it?

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I've worked side by side with John Marsh at Fratmen.com and have known him for over 6 years now. People here can count on one hand the people I've recommended working with in this industry and John Marsh is at the top of my list.

If it's going to make affiliates happy and not severly cut into his bottom line, John will do it. John is in no way out to screw people over. Johns out to make a top notch product and do good business and he's doing a damn good job at both.