threads about cp

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09-04-2006, 06:10 PM
marcjacob

threads about cp

I know this is going to get me into trouble again but im going to keep saying it because i feel its important.

Let me give you a story.

Ronnie is running a cp site, he advertises it (howether they do) and billy, an adult webmaster, finds it. Billy posts on GWW about it (not intending to do any harm). Now if perv ronnie discovers this, what do you think his next move will be?

a. put all the evidence in a box marked "child porn" and wait for the fbi to arrive.
b. distroy eviden, skip town, go underground until a later date when he can start again.

what do you reckon?

i think b myself. billy has, while being very well meaning, alerted a dangerous sexual preditor to the fact that hes been caught. without meaning to, billy has helped a dangerous sexual preditor to continue abusing children.

i dont think anyone wants this to happen, so please, if you see child porn, report it and move on. if you want to post about it fine, but DONT LINK TO THE SITES!

sorry if this sounds partonising, ive said it a few times but still we get people posting links on this board. i dont mean it to sound that way, i just think this is a very dangerous game were playing.
09-04-2006, 06:43 PM
DEVELISH

Hi,

maybe people post here since they don't know what to do

I found out about ASACP after the first CP posting here a few weeks ago - I didn't know one could report CP anonymously there...

DEVELISH
09-04-2006, 06:48 PM
marcjacob

of course and again ill say, im in no doubt that no one means any harm. if thats the case, this thread is great to advise what to do.

click the asacp link, report it, thats all thats required, they will verify if its true cp and take the action required.

im not having a go at people, im really not. just trying to get people to think at the bigger picture :)

i will say that you you not having heard about asacp is all of our fault, they ask adult webmasters to link to them, how many of us do that on all of our adult sites? i dont.. but i should.
09-04-2006, 06:54 PM
DEVELISH

IMHO not only the porn sites should link to ASACP but forums, too :D
09-04-2006, 06:57 PM
marcjacob

lol agreed. im going to link my sites i think, mind you i work full time and do this in the spare time, i mega busy and tend to forget stuff lol
09-04-2006, 07:50 PM
Matt 26z

One aspect of the CP reporting process that I question is the contacting of webhosts and their immediate removal of the site. Doesn't that tip the CP'er off before the FBI can get involved?
09-04-2006, 08:00 PM
marcjacob

100% agreed - that is entirely what im arguing here in many ways. i personally think keep it quiet until the guy is in custody.
09-04-2006, 08:25 PM
Squirt

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcjacob

I know this is going to get me into trouble again but im going to keep saying it because i feel its important.

Maybe people posting the CP threads feel the same way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcjacob

Let me give you a story.

Ronnie is running a cp site, he advertises it (howether they do) and billy, an adult webmaster, finds it. Billy posts on GWW about it (not intending to do any harm). Now if perv ronnie discovers this, what do you think his next move will be?

a. put all the evidence in a box marked "child porn" and wait for the fbi to arrive.
b. distroy eviden, skip town, go underground until a later date when he can start again.

what do you reckon?

i think b myself. billy has, while being very well meaning, alerted a dangerous sexual preditor to the fact that hes been caught. without meaning to, billy has helped a dangerous sexual preditor to continue abusing children.

i dont think anyone wants this to happen, so please, if you see child porn, report it and move on. if you want to post about it fine, but DONT LINK TO THE SITES!

sorry if this sounds partonising, ive said it a few times but still we get people posting links on this board. i dont mean it to sound that way, i just think this is a very dangerous game were playing.

These guys are always trying to find new ways to get our mainstream traffic so I suggest people keep posting about this when the occasion arises and don't be silenced by people who say they don't want to hear it. They are few and far between.

You made a long post and I'm giving you a detailed long response.

While a couple have tried to peg me as the poster child for this kind of behavior, it's important to note that only on 3 occasions in the last 3 years have I brought this kind of thing up, and I'm glad to see others are doing it as well.

I know the most recent post by Toni_Enzo regarding a CP Spam might seem unnecessary to you but in reality, if sponsors for those sites read Toni_Enzo's post and see their site is in that email they can take action and disable the affiliate account and report the affiliate that is using CP themed spam to promote mainstream sites. The actual sites listed in the email were not CP sites but were detailing a way to use normal sites, as an affiliate, to gain access to CP via email addresses.

CP and borderline CP sites are becoming more aggressive in trying to recruit mainstream promoters on the Gay side of our industry. They've realized they make a lot more money with mainstream traffic. If we stand idly by and let them post on our boards, spam our affiliate accounts with CP based emails, etc. etc. we would be condoning them as part of the Gay adult online mainstream industry, which they aren't.

You are right. When you bring these guys to light they scurry like cockroaches after feebly trying to fight back and defend themselves. They change domains, go undercover, etc. But just like roaches turning the light on them isn't meant to catch them, it's meant for people to see what's going on. The ones that are stupid enough to be seen were stupid enough to leave tracks behind and get caught. The others will be put out of business sooner or later, just like any other organized crime syndicates.

And there's no witch hunt going on. These people are getting more desperate as their ways of getting traffic are being eliminated. We've seen some newcomers that are just plain stupid.
09-04-2006, 08:34 PM
Squirt

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcjacob

100% agreed - that is entirely what im arguing here in many ways. i personally think keep it quiet until the guy is in custody.

So you feel that nobody should know of crimes being committed, or about to be committed, until the person is caught?
09-04-2006, 08:35 PM
marcjacob

1) real child abusers probably wouldnt "fight their cause" on boards like this, the people your talking about probably didnt have or didnt know they had illegal content, if they did, why argue it while the feds turn up?

2)

Quote:

These guys are always trying to find new ways to get our mainstream traffic so I suggest people keep posting about this when the occasion arises and don't be silenced by people who say they don't want to hear it. They are few and far between.

im glad you feel you can do this, truly, but the bigger picture here is the children (i mean real children - not just 18+ models who "look abit young") are being abused and are in danger. to me thats more important.

im not scared of talking about it, hence why i said "if you want to post fine, but dont post the url".
09-04-2006, 08:36 PM
marcjacob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirt

So you feel that nobody should know of crimes being committed, or about to be committed, until the person is caught?

no, i feel you should let the authorities act first. let them have a chance of shutting these people down rather that giving the pervs the chance to abusing more children.
09-04-2006, 08:43 PM
IdolKnights

BY OUTING CP IN PUBLIC YOU WARN PEOPLE WHOM NOT TO DO OR STOP DOING BUSINESS WITH!

Mark,

Step 1 - Report it to the FBI, ASACP or as stated in the past - to CHAD if you don't want your name in the hat.

Step 2 - Warn OTHER webmasters! This way they can check the host and who he/she/they are tied to and what other ventures they push that you may be pushing yourself. LEADING TO YOU ASSISTING TO CP VIA A LOOPHOLE!
09-04-2006, 08:50 PM
marcjacob

yes and i agree with that, but your also possibly warning the cp webmaster that were on to him. and if the net result of that is that he abuses more kids, are you really happy with that? im not saying dont post, i am saying dont post the links. thats the quickest way for a cp webmaster to find out, through his stat counter.
09-04-2006, 08:52 PM
marcjacob

in fact, why not disguise the link? why cant we post blah.com instead of http://www.blah.com

that way unless the cp webmaster posted here, he wouldnt actually find out that we were on to him.
09-04-2006, 08:57 PM
Squirt

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcjacob

1) real child abusers probably wouldnt "fight their cause" on boards like this, the people your talking about probably didnt have or didnt know they had illegal content, if they did, why argue it while the feds turn up?

I don't think we've ever come across a site yet where the content producer (child abuser) was posting, it has always been promoters. I could be wrong but from memory that doesn't come to mind as ever happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcjacob

2) im glad you feel you can do this, truly, but the bigger picture here is the children (i mean real children - not just 18+ models who "look abit young") are being abused and are in danger. to me thats more important.

im not scared of talking about it, hence why i said "if you want to post fine, but dont post the url".

The goal of posting openly about CP situations we come across isn't to stop abuse, nobody can do that. It's to warn other webmasters of what someone is trying to push, how they've changed a site, the latest tricks to get the mainstream Gay adult traffic, etc. etc.

If we don't post about these things we only enable these guys to rip off other webmasters and put legit businesses at risk of being involved in something they weren't aware of, that's the last thing ANY of us need.

So people will continue to post about it.
09-04-2006, 08:58 PM
IdolKnights

Because BLAH . Com didn't have CP and you posting it as such is slander
09-04-2006, 09:08 PM
gaybucks_chip

Also, it's worth noting that Chad has previously indicated on this board that he is willing to contact ASACP and report a site, and maintain confidentiality if someone does not feel comfortable reporting it to ASACP directly.

The FBI will sometimes contact the host or billing processor and ask them NOT to pull the site down so as not to alert the operator. This might, for example, allow the Feds more time to collect all the facts and get everything in order for a bust.

I do believe that if a site is using an unwitting legitimate affiliate program as a revenue model (as in, "sign up for one of these three sites here and send us your proof of joining, and we'll activate you"), it's definitely appropriate to contact the affiliate program operator and let them know that their program is being used for illicit purposes... but not necessarily to publicize it on a webmaster board such as this.
09-05-2006, 08:10 AM
ronnie

I just wanted to say, the names used in the orginal post of course were fictional for the example..:) Boardtracker alerted me to this thread.

I Think it should be reported to the proper authorities, sure dont want to send them any traffic or give them any links. Just my opinion..:)

ronnie
09-05-2006, 08:32 AM
basschick

this is very idealistic but in reality the fbi often takes years to put a case together, and in that time hundreds more children could end up on the internet. and in that time, the sites change hosts and processors several or many times.

there is no perfect solution to this situation unfortuntely :(

btw, in all these years, i have never once seen a cp site owner on a board.
09-05-2006, 09:01 AM
Toni_Enzo

My last post had links in it, but all links were to the legal affiliate programs through which one gets access to who knows what cp URL.

If this thread was addressed to my previous post about cp spam in my inbox, you did not read it correctly, as if you have, you would have seen the above facts.

Personally If I knew cp URL I would report it immediatly, but I sure am not going to join a certain site, email the spam in question to receive URL to cp site and then report it to FBI or whoever....
09-05-2006, 09:02 AM
Squirt

Welcome to GWW Ronnie! Who are you? What are you talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronnie

I just wanted to say, the names used in the orginal post of course were fictional for the example..:) Boardtracker alerted me to this thread.

I Think it should be reported to the proper authorities, sure dont want to send them any traffic or give them any links. Just my opinion..:)

ronnie
09-05-2006, 09:03 AM
Toni_Enzo

Plus... I think it's up to Lee to decide if this sort of URL reporting or posting on GWW is permited or not.
09-05-2006, 09:26 AM
ronnie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirt

Welcome to GWW Ronnie! Who are you? What are you talking about?

Thank you. I should have intorduced myself. Board tracker alerted me to this thread because it contained my nick, well the nick I use on webmaster boards. Just setting the record straight that the names where fictional and not real people..:) Sure dont want my nick associated with cp.

I am of course an adult webmaster that runs a number of links lists and blogs.

ronnie
09-05-2006, 10:08 AM
Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni_Enzo

Plus... I think it's up to Lee to decide if this sort of URL reporting or posting on GWW is permited or not.

I personally dont mind the posting of info like this as it can alert the affiliate program to what is happening however, i do have a problem with linking directly to a CP site and that should be avoided at all times :)

Regards,

Lee