http://www.ownitendit.org/
Does anyone find this as disturbing as me? Aren't we just giving the right-wing religious wackos what they want?
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http://www.ownitendit.org/
Does anyone find this as disturbing as me? Aren't we just giving the right-wing religious wackos what they want?
Article
I guess I'm missing the point of the campaign...how are they thinking this is going to stop the spread of hiv?
I think the message is fine as long as it is delivered exclusively to gay men. But this is reportedly on billboards all over LA. And what do you think straight people will remember after they see these billboards?
HIV=Gay or more alarmingly, Gay=HIV
And don't you think this is also irresponsible to display this message to young, ignorant straight people? "Oh good, only gay people can get HIV! I guess I'm safe then."
http://www.happysucks.com/0/hiv.jpg
so anyone who has HIV/AIDS is gay?
i know what their trying to do but that one statement makes me incredibly angry. its simply wrong, even in la. ok so the majority of infections are gay but that tells straight people it doesnt apply to them and it does. in any case weve thought long and hard in the uk to get away from that idea. if this was here theyd get slated by the gay lobby for that statement.
i applaud anyone tackling the issue and i welcome them trying hard to end hiv. i just disagree with there use of those words.
maybe they want this reaction though? after all, were all talking about hiv again. the more we talk about it the more aware people are.
I think that this sort of thinking is so 80's...certainly a step back in time and I see nothing positive about it at all. It is a human disease and doesn't see gender, sexual preference, or skin color. :thumbsdown:
Lee
Diseases do not know sexual orientation, class, religion, etc. Back during the plagues people used to blame those who were dying as being punished by God. Now those dying of AIDS are being punished by God. Religion is fucked and ignorance gives way to statements like "HIV IS a Gay disease". When people attribute any disease to a particular class/group of people, you are spreading ignorance, no matter how well intentioned you are.
Yeah I know it's a community organization trying to make our community take responsibility for our actions, but it's the wrong message to send because not only the Gay community sees it, amongst other things.
Ever tried giving blood? See on the questionaire where it lists risky behavior for getting HIV/AIDS that you shouldn't give blood?
"You should not give blood if you have AIDS or have ever had a positive HIV test, or if you have done something that puts you at risk for becoming infected with HIV. "
"You are at risk for getting infected if you: "
"are a male who has had sexual contact with another male, even once, since 1977" SOURCE
The last thing we need is our own community spreading this paranoia :drunk:
The "hook" for the ad is ridiculous. They put that tag line out there in big letters to get attention, but then explain it away on the website.
HIV is a Gay Disease*
*Not it's not, but now that we got your attention check out our website.
that's like saying
GOD IS GAY! *
*not really, but now that we got your attention goto our website
Totally stupid
pylons!
My 57-y.o. friend has been positive for 30-years (+/-). MAN will he ever be floored when I tell him he is gay! Wait a minute, he's not gay!
That's right: one night at a bar he picked-up a dirty whore of a needle. So IT must be gay! (and I thought I was on a different wave-length!)
Once again L.A. is the center of the universe! What do I mean?
"but in Los Angeles, more than 75%.." [http://www.ownitendit.org/]
AND, if that (% posted on page) is true, it MUST be correct ... world-wide!
Even in the ever-so homophobic roman catholic regions.
Hmm, does anybody here think th@ the pylons ever stopped to think ... th@ MAYBE they should boost the numbers to something more viable.
Such as: (out of two-hundred people surveyed)
75 gay persons are positive
25 needle users (drugs) are positive, however the other seventy-five were lost, because they were too stoned! (adjusted total 100)
25 str8's that have unprotected with a pos. partner
adjusted percentages:
Needle (drug) users = 50%
Gay= 37.5%
Straight = 12.5%
I pulled the above figures from the same magical silk top-hat as the white crusaders.
I do not like coming off as a fanatic, but I fail to see how so many people (except for those cut from the same cloth) can still put so much of themselves in to a system that perpetuates and rewards mentalities and ideals, such as those on that site.
I was beyond offend, but not surprised.
I am negative but I tried to give blood at my old job for a Red Cross blood drive. Of course, I anonymously checked the "sexually active gay male" box. So I went through the hassle and pain so they could just throw my blood out and my co-workers wouldn't know I was gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
C'mon... "sex with a male, even once since 1977???" Shouldn't this rule apply to all sexually active people?? Don't they screen the fucking blood?! I don't ever want to hear how the Red Cross is in desperate need for blood.
FUCK THE RED CROSS!
Where is the outrage in the gay community about this stupid rule?
I don't think it's a stupid rule at all. It is my understanding that HIV can take a number of months to show up in blood testing after infection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Let me ask you this. If you were in an accident and could choose to receive the blood of a straight man or a gay man, which blood would you pick?
By your logic it would be smart to reconsider accepting blood donated by women because women represent 48% of those living with HIV/AIDS. Of course you probably think that the 51% of men with HIV/AIDS are all Gay, as well. We also should rule out anyone 15-24 years of age because they represent 50% of all new infections recorded every year.
Blood doesn't have a sexual orientation
Blood is blood
The red cross screens all blood
So I'd take any persons blood from the red cross
You're implying that "Gay" blood has a higher chance of being diseased then "straight" blood because of HIV/AIDS? You think there are no blood diseases that affect mainly straight people?
Worldwide the vast majority of HIV/AIDS cases are amongst heterosexuals, and 48% of AIDS cases world wide are women.
But think whatever you want, don't let things like facts get in your way
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
Your statistics were worldwide. The straight HIV infections of the undeveloped world offset the fact that HIV is primarily a gay disease in western countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
Why does everyone make a fuss over not being able to give blood anyway? It's not like your human rights have been violated. As long as there isn't a shortage to the point where people are dying, who cares of they have filters in place for higher risk blood? This isn't about YOU the donor anyway. It's about the person receiving the blood, and I don't think too many people would want to be given gay blood if straight blood were also available.
I just looked it up and it's on many sites. Definitive HIV test results can only be obtained three months after exposure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt
Here's a quote from a Doctor...
"The antibodies in the blood need to reach a certain level before they can be detected conclusively," Dr Johan Miedema, Quality Manager and founder of Mirates explains. "Therefore, people who are worried after a sexual encounter have to wait three months before they take the test. There is no point in testing 'the morning after'; there will be no detectable amount of antibodies." "In that case, you will very probably test 'negative' while in fact you are 'positive'.
http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/aidstest1.html
That's not true, the statistics for sub-Saharan Africa offset the straight HIV statistics that's why I didn't include them.. there 58% of women have HIV/AIDS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
Also in 2005 alone over 1,100,000 people immigrated from other countries to the U.S. SOURCE
But since you feel that America is not part of the world then I'll only reference American statistics. 77% of those living with HIV/AIDS in America are men.. of that percentage 42% of men with HIV/AIDS in America are straight. 33% of all HIV/AIDS cases are women of which 63% were exposed through HETEROSEXUAL contact and no known percentage through Lesbian (Gay) sex. SOURCE
So why on earth do you think HIV/AIDS in America is a Gay disease? That opinion isn't based on fact, unless you discount 42% of heterosexual men with HIV/AIDS in America and All the women living with HIV/AIDS in America which account for 33% of all cases.
HIV/AIDS is a virus that's transmitted through unprotected sex.
Anyone in the world can get HIV/AIDS through unprotected sex, unless you're a Lesbian having exclusively Lesbian sex.
It's just another thing that ignorance stolen from the Gay community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
Imagine if you were told that, for whatever reason, your kind of people were no longer allowed to spit, just because you were you. Makes you want to spit doesn't it?
I recommend Gay men donate blood and lie about their sexual history because it just might be that you save anothers life in the GLBT community.
I think -- I hope -- what they're trying to do is to re-sensitive gay men to HIV and AIDS. I was around when GRID first surfaced, which later became known as HIV, and through the 80s and early 90s, I lost a great many friends. But since the development of anti-virals and other treatments, a whole generation of gay men have come into their own not ever knowing a single person who has died of AIDS.
There's a great many people who think the drugs are the cure, so for younger gay men there doesn't appear to be a crisis. And with the onset of crystal meth use in our community, infection rates in gay men are definitely on the rise.
Given those points, I understand what they're trying to do; however, I agree with most here that it's going to have a negative effect on non-gay people who will end up thinking, once again, that they're immune.
Cheers
Michael
I cant justify these ads in any way. In Canada ads like this, whoever posted them (gvmnt, gay comunity, ngo)would be illegal, and subject to quick legal action and removal.
We do have extensive ad campaigns to prevent the spread of HIV in Canada, but ours are based on facts, educating, as well as bringing attention to the cause and fear to the hearts of unsuspecting voters. :santa: :paco: :santa:
Ok. Then why the ban on men who have had gay sex since 1977?? A straight man who has ANAL sex with a PROSTITUTE only has to wait 12 months after such an encounter before he can give blood. HIV can be detected within one month after infection using the Western Blot test and other tests need only 6 months. Can't gay men be trusted to answer honestly on a questionaire but straight men having anl sex with prostitutes are?! To me, this is discrimination!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
What a ridiculous question. I don't care where the blood came from. I'm not going to get tranfusions in the maze at the White Swallow Bathhouse just like I'm not getting transfusions in Heroin Alley! I'm still putting my trust in some schmo who fills out a form at the Red Cross. And I pretty darned sure that allowing gay men to answer honestly AND donate blood will not increase my chances of contracting HIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
What an absolute ridiculous thing to say. Do you know how many "straight" men I've had sex with in my 44 years on this planet? Do you know how many have ever asked me if I was positive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
Good grief.
Michael
Dzinerbear... you and I might be the only ones here who remember GRID - and how frightening AIDS was when it first surfaced.
Beat up on me all you want folks.... but I GET why they are doing this ad this way. I support them and I think that - in light of rising infection rates in the gay community - a good swift kick in the ass is called for.
I remember the total and complete denial of the gay community in the 1980's in San Francisco, where epidemiolgists were trying to close the bathhouses, and the gay community was screaming "discrimination" - I remember when Act-Up broke away from thier original mission, and started claiming that there was no such thing as AIDS, and that AIDS was being caused by the early anti-retrovirals - simply because they felt that limiting the right of gay men to fuck anybody anywhere at anytime was the same thing as going back into the closet.
I also remember very well when Larry Kramer was kicked out of the GMHC and virtually exiled from the larger gay community for trying to insist that, in light of a deadly sexually transmitted disease, gay men might choose to NOT screw around quite so much.
Yeah - so AIDS is NOT a Gay Disease. Whatever. I lost scores of friends and aquaintances, including several very close friends. And they were all gay. Any of us over the age of 40 got to live through this.... watching our friends die by the score.
And now, on this very board, we have webmasters advocating barebacking as a viable fetish. We have a new population of young gay men who honestly think they will never die. We have bathhouses aplenty, and a slow sure return to the same party lifestyle that cost so many lives the first time around.
Yes, AIDS is not a "gay" disease, but in the US urban areas, 3-5 percent of the population accounts for nealy 70% of the infections.
So, at which point might it be suggested that the community most severly impacted by this disease start taking effective action? Or is any call to gay men to take responsibility for thier own health and the health of the community equal to homophobia?
Denial and accusations of homophobia marked the first round of the fight against AIDS in the 80's, and that denial cost many people I cared deeply about thier lives.
Whoever's was readily available to me to save my frickin' life!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 26z
News Flash, straight people get aids too. This rule is discriminant and serves no purpose.
I definitely see your points, Shaun, but I think there was another way to go about this that could have been just as shocking without pinpointing AIDS as a gay disease. Of course it is; we all know that. But it's also a straight disease and a black disease and an Asian disease and a bisexual disease.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun
I think it's important for our community to take responsibility for the continued spread of the disease, but I don't think we should be backing ourselves into another corner where we are the ones blamed for bringing it into the world.
STDs Estimated Number of Pregnant Women
Bacterial vaginosis 800,000
Herpes simplex 800,000
Chlamydia 200,000
Trichomoniasis 80,000
Gonorrhea 40,000
Hepatitis B 40,000
HIV 8,000
Syphilis 8,000
source
Wow straight American women and their babies infected with Gay diseases must be a miracle.
I understand that... but.... the people who believe that gay men brought "AIDS into the world" ALREADY believe it anyway. And if it weren't for AIDS, they would hate you for some other reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
We can only do so much to fight ignorance and intolerance, and even with the epidemic, we have come a very very long way - in a very short amount of time.
Of course AIDS is not a "gay disease" - but the epidemiolgy in the US is this: The NUMBER ONE RISK FACTOR is men having unprotected sex with other men. The information is out there - the fact that there are so many new infections in the gay community is inexcusable, and something MUST be done about that. Saying that straight girls get AIDS too isn't doing a DAMN thing to stop aids in the gay community.
According to the GMHC, these are the stats in 2002
Men who have sex with men 368,971
Injection drug users 201,326
Men who have sex with men and inject drugs 51,293
Hemophilia/coagulation disorder 5,292
Heterosexual contact 90,131
Estimates of the gay population in the US, based on demographic reports puts the gay and lesbian population at about 1.5%, or around 4.3 Million people. Even adjusting that for undercounting, lets be generous and say there are a total of 3 million men who sleep with other men. And looking at the rest of the population, roughly esitmated there are 200 Million people between the ages of 16-64.
So - there are 197 million people who engage in heterosexual contact, and 3 million men who engage in homosexual contact - yet the AIDS rate among men who sleep with other men is 4x higher than the rate of people who aquire aids strictly though heterosexual contact with no other risk factors.
Epidemiolgically speaking - in the US ---- the makers of this advertisement have a point. The rate of infection for heterosexual contact is about 0.05%. The rate of infection for homosexual contact is about 13%. (If we use the govt figures of 1.5 percent of the population being gay, meaning about 2.2 million gay men, the rate is nearly 20%!)
Reasonable public policy could nearly eliminate infection among needle users (In Europe, you can buy syringes at the grocery store! It is beyond idiotic that you can't get needles in the US!). The non needle using aquistion of aids - while tragic - is low on a % basis.
The ONLY way to stop aids, within the gay community - is for everyone to STOP saying "yeah, but... in Africa" or "But what about the percentage of pregnant women...." and fight AIDS for the community, within the community. Because, generally speaking, you can't change a damn thing in this world until you accept responsibility for it (and please, understand, culpability and responsibility are very different things.)
I understand the fear that this Ad may further stigmatize gay men. But in order to end AIDS within the Gay community, it is imperative that the community itself take responsibility for the infection rate within its own ranks.
And if it takes an ad saying "AIDS is a Gay Disease - Own it" - and if that ad saves any lives, well - good on it.
It's sounds like you're knowledgeable in your statistics so you will well know that, in America, women have the highest growing infection rate, yet we have ads claiming HIV/AIDS is a Gay disease, as more and more women are getting the disease, just as statistics are showing is happening in THE REST OF THE WORLD :uhoh:Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun
The American knee jerk reaction to world crisis is to say we are different; we are immune, as far as diseases go any human host will do.
There is no community responsibility to accept regarding HIV/AIDS as personal behavior is what transmits the virus, not the Gay community.
HIV/AIDS is a non discriminate virus that anyone having unsafe sex can get. Taking personal responsibility regarding your sexual practices is totally different then a group of people "owning" a non discriminate disease, that's just stupid, no matter what your sexuality or what the disease is.
That's like saying the African American community needs to take responsibility for HIV/AIDS. You do know that African Americans are the vast majority of those infected, yet you feel the way to "end" HIV/AIDS is for the Gay community to own it.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun
It won’t save lives. It will make Gay men not want to identify with, or be a part of, the Gay community.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun
Messages to people in the Gay community promoting self love and positive self esteem will make them want to take personal responsibility and have safe sex NOT messages that say because you are Gay you have to own a disease.
Yes, AIDS is happening in the rest of the world. And yes, in the third world, in Africa, in Asia, it is happening by heterosexual transmission.
In the US, however, we still have an infection rate at somewhere between 5% and 10% of the gay male population, vs just 0.05% of the straight population.
And no, the vast majority of AIDS victims aren't black - they are white. However, AIDS is increasing in the black population at a greater rate.... and YES - The AFRICAN AMERICAN community NEEDS to take action.... because the needs of that particular popluation are different. It is NOT ok to be black and gay, and as a result, you have a huge amount of denial and men on the 'down low'. Furthermore, in the Gay community - blacks tend to be marginalized. Talk about a double whammy - no support at home because you're gay - and no support in the gay community, because you are black.
We've had 2 decades of AIDS activism based on the warm and fuzzy. 2 decades of "love yourself, wear a condom" - and because young gay men aren't living through the horror of watching thier loved ones die of dementia with huge Sarcomas all over thier body - they just aren't GETTING it!!!!!
I am SICK of this disease. I am sick of losing my friends. I am so over safe sex, I could scream. I mourn the fact that anyone under 40 never had the chance to have sex without a condom, without risking thier lives.
Yes. Women get AIDS. Yes, Blacks get AIDS. Yes, everyone needs to take personal responsibility. AIDS is a gay disease, is a myth. HIV is equal opportunity. BUT IN THE UNITED STATES, THE GAY COMMUNITY HAS BEEN HIT HARDEST OF ANY OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC BY ALL MEASURES - AND AS A PERCENTAGE, THE DIFFERENCES ARE EXTREME. And I - for one - and tired of losing beautiful young men to this disease.
I think, instead of warm fuzzy messages of self love and self respect, we should just make every young person spend 1-2 weeks in an AIDS hospice, because there aint nothing warm and fuzzy about dying from sex.
Finally - I'll say this: The Govt doesnt CARE about the gay community. They don't care about the black community. Current AIDS activism is failing - the new infection rate continues to rise. WE need to OWN this issue in our own back yards, because no one is getting out there and bringing the message home.