GWW Community Rules - Need Your Input

Okay, over the past couple of weeks i have received several PMs from different people letting me know that they thought certain people were spamming to much on the GWW Community so, i thought it would be a good idea to get some feedback from you folks about how we can pro-actively approach the subject of people posting spam on our community.

At the present time, community members need to have a specific number of posts before they can post clickable URLs but, it would seem that we are being 'spammed' by some GWW Community members who feel that they should be able to post links to the sites they own and work for whenever they feel like it.

So, with that being said, lets see if we can come up with a workable solution to cut down the amount of pure spam on the GWW Community, whilst still allowing those community members who do contribute on a regular basis to inform us of the latest and greatest stuff they have to offer.

Also, i wanted to clarify (as i was asked to) what the deal is with GWW Community sponsors and their announcements, so here goes...

GWW Community sponsors (top banners, annual banners, buttons, and autolinks) are pretty much the only community members who are able to post their news and announcements on the general forum and, once one of our moderators see the post, it will become stickied for up to 24 hours.

Any other GWW Community members wishing to post any news or announcements on the community must post them in the Announcements + Spam forum. This includes any new content you have added, new articles you have written, new sites or movies you have or intend to launch, contests, or new staff you have hired.

In essence, if you post a new thread with a link to a site that you own, or that is intended as 'self promotion' in my eyes, and therefore in the eyes of the GWW Moderator team, that would be spam and will be moved to the announcements and spam section of the GWW Community.

Also just to clarify, if you post a link in an existing thread, in response to another GWW Community members question or query, to your own sites or services, that is fine, as long as it is on topic and help or advice was solicited (asked for).

So, now that we know where we stand currently with 'spam' on the GWW Community, i would like to get some feedback from you folks as to how we can move forward in cutting down the amount of spam from some of our existing GWW Community members.

Regards,

Lee

cool Lee. One of the things I find most helpful when I am visiting a board either to make an announcement, milk a BT alert or just relax and enjoy the community is to have a page, not a sticky thread but an actual page that lists the community standards type of thing esp as it relates to things like how far a regular poster can go in self promotion.
I honestly don't have a lot of time during my work day to visit all the boards I am a member at and I have about a 3-4 hour window of time that is 'free time' each day and thats spent with family.
so if i am doing a little happy visit and checking the GWW threads for something I might find interesting and want to post in, a handy link at the top of the page to rules can always settle any questions I might have or point me in the right direction if i over step what it considered allowable in the community. I understand the need for rules and standards and I strive to follow them whenever they are made perfectly clear to me :)

spaz

I'm sorry, but I don't think this really works for me, nor do I think it's fair to the people who have helped built this community.

If I decided to make Universal Bear a paysite, I think I should be able to announce it right here where I've been making posts for three years. And likewise there are so many people who post in this forum and I want to read and hear about their news. I always prefer to do business with and throw traffic to people that I know.

Sorry, but the board just became a whole lot less useful for me because I never read the Announcement forum. I just don't have the time to sift through six forums on this board to see what interests me. This is my homepage, and if it doesn't catch my eye here, then I don't see it.

Why don't you deal with the offenders on an individual basis rather than penalizing members in good standing?

This is a bad idea, unless I've totally misunderstood the new rules and circumstances, which is highly possible since I'm not coffee'd yet.

Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

This is a bad idea, unless I've totally misunderstood the new rules and circumstances, which is highly possible since I'm not coffee'd yet.

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Go get coffee'd up ;)

In essence, this is only for those people who regularly post links to their sites or associated sites on what seems like an almost daily basis to some people.

This is an effort to pro-actively approach the subject of people posting nothing but links to sites they own or are associated with on a regular basis and how we can lay down some ground rules to cut back the amount of spam posts being made.

Obviously, if someone who is a GWW regular, and has an announcement to be made they will have a certain amount of leeway to have it posted and stickied in the general forum :)

Regards,

Lee

I think this is GREAT!

I too like to see what regular members are upto but thats a whole world away from people whos only posts are adverts.

I think we can all draw a distinction farily easily. We all recognise it when we see it. I welcome this..

So...

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=20129

and threads like it would be "Spam" and need to go into the "Spam" folder?

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

I think we can all draw a distinction farily easily. We all recognise it when we see it. I welcome this..

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Only if you apply the XXX posts before you post a link rule

Other than that, it's fair game as to who "Feels" it's spam

I personally don't consider Patti's post to be spam. I'm in complete agreement with Michael ... I rarely scroll down to the spam threads and look at them. And I WANT to hear/see what regulars on this board are into at the moment. We shouldn't have to pay to be a sponsor to be able to talk about our programs, get opinions, etc.

A suggestion would be to move up the spam/announcements higher above the page fold, so it's not 10 sections down... like put it under the main forum. So if it is just a drive by posting -- they'll hopefully get the hint of where it should go.

why not have a seperate news forum where you need a higher number of posts to post to?

I am not sure where I stand exactly on this one. I mean I would like to think that if I had something I considered exciting to share that was in essence self promoting I'd have that opportunity in the main forum. After all the purpose of the board is primarily to do business and where better than in the main forum to let others know about some new stuff.

I suppose there is a fine line here. I mean if someone shares their latest project is it spam or an attempt to foster business relations? I mean let's be honest here, that if we are here for business it is for ourselves, so naturally many of our posts might be construed as self promotion, or spam. I don't see a problem because just like television, I can tune it out if I am not interested.

I know that some do nothing but post their own agendas or latest stuff. I suppose if I was to post a release or news item about my latest story each time I added one, it would be spam though it might be a way for me to show that I am a prolific writer... to help garner contracts. So it would seem to me, that it is going to come down to one's perception and to make it a fast rule seems to limit the boards ability to generate business for the membership.

I know I have made decisions based on the so called self promoting posts of some, and its helped me make those decisions. Sure at times it can be a bit much but when regulars post, its also interesting to see their progress or lack of it, in the business. I personally think that the limit already imposed is sufficient, and while some complain, well, I think the silent majority seem to not object. Surely that has to say its not that big of a problem for them.

The mods here do a good job of keeping it in check, so I really don't feel that the existing rules need to be tampered with.

my two cents :morning:

I think this is totally unnecessary. GWW is one of the least spammy boards out there. Who's complaining about spammy posts anyways... new members? I just don't see it.

Delicate question, and I appreciate the fact that Lee is asking the community to help create the rules.

Here are my thoughts.

The advertisers that help generate income, pay for Lee and Gary-Alan's time, bandwidth, etc. should certainly have the right to post occasional "spammy" messages IF they genuinely have something to say. If they're rehashing the same old stuff, then it should be limited to some reasonable period, perhaps based on sponsorship level, like twice a week for top-level sponsors, once a week for lower level sponsors and so forth (Or daily and twice a week, I dunno what's reasonable here.)

But the regular contributors who offer substantive advice and help are every bit as important -- if not more important -- than the advertisers. They provide nearly all of the value and "stickiness" that keeps members coming back to the board. If no offered helpful advice, we'd have a board full of spammers and people asking questions with no one giving answers. No helpful info, no viewers... no viewers, no advertisers... no advertisers, no revenue.

So the regular contributors (whatever someone defines "regular" to be) should be able to post occasional plugs for their programs, new sites, etc., as long as the ratio of (genuine contribution to the community):(spammy posts) is reasonable. And frankly, if the posts aren't spammy, but perhaps genuinely asking for help/suggestions, or talking about something genuinely new in a program, (not "today's new gallery") I don't usually find them objectionable.

On the (non-adult) board that I own, which is similar in post count to GWW but with more regular contributors, we have sort of a loose consensus arrangement where any moderator can remove or move an objectionable post to the admin area, and if s/he has any question about the decision, s/he emails the other moderators for an opinion. 98 times out of 100, the moderators all agree on the actions taken. When they disagree, there's a discuss and usually somebody yields. In very rare cases, I've exercised the right as the "active" owner of the board to make the final decision. That setup works very well for a community that is typically a lot more volatile than this one and typically has a fair number of outright spammers and trolls.

The GWW community is, in my book, exceptionally well behaved, and for the most part, I doubt that much in the way of formal regulation is required. What I really *would* like to see is more flexibilty so that mods/admin can warn, suspend, and then, if change is not forthcoming, ban posters who are disruptive (you all know who I'm referring to) if they don't "get with the program." To me, the poster(s) we've had who post constant dumbass statements, post off topic continually, hijack threads, or are simply posting to hear themselves speak are a far, far greater distraction/annoyance than a few program owners making occasional statement about their programs.

I guess in the end, I vote for minimal formal regulation and a pretty wlde degree of latitude for the mods/admins.

I think people are likely to post announcements or spammy posts based on what they see as "acceptable" examples. If Lee craftily includes the name of his program in about a third of his posts, then why would a new member consider it inappropriate to post similarly? There is direct spam and there is creatively worded spam. I think creatively worded or crafted spam is probably the main issue. Dropping the name of your program into a post is pretty obvious when it happens, but when the boss does it, who's to think its off limits?

I like the idea of a "contributor announcement" forum, for someone that would have 100 posts on the board, and they would be allowed to post some kind of announcement on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. Give people a more prominent outlet to do their promotion and I would hope that the side door spam posts might be less of an issue. Let the drive by spammers use the spam and announcement forum.

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

(you all know who I'm referring to)

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Id be really sad by that. He doesnt break the rules, just says stuff that is 99% nonesence. At the end of the day you cant ban someone because you dont like what they say or agree with them. This isnt China. I also dont think him hijacking threads is deliberate, he seems to say something thats rubbish and the thread goes that way because we all react to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

Id be really sad by that. He doesnt break the rules, just says stuff that is 99% nonesence. I also dont think him hijacking threads is deliberate, he seems to say something thats rubbish and the thread goes that way because we all react to it.

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That was my point exactly. I've talked to (said person) offline, and he can be genuinely helpful... but he simply doesn't know how to participate and not be disruptive, in spite of numerous attempts by many contributors to help him "get it." And Lee has indicated that the current rules don't provide for dealing with someone who continually disrupts the flow of valid communications but isn't really a troll per se.

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At the end of the day you cant ban someone because you dont like what they say or agree with them.

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You absolutely can on this board. This is a private discussion board, there are absolutely no free speech rights conferred to anyone. It's basically a membership club, and the way Lee is operating things now, he's asking the members to offer input on what sort of behavior among the members is acceptable. If we're banning people from spamming too much, that's no different than banning them because they are disruptive to the flow of information. In both cases, the individual posting the message obviously feels s/he is justified in doing so, and in at least one case, the board administrator doesn't agree and is seeking input to make the rules consistent with what the community members want.

I don't suggest lightly that anyone be banned; it would be a last resort. All I was saying was that if someone is disruptive and, after a lot of encouragement/help on how to behave so as to not be so disruptive, they still are, one needs to look at the needs of the community overall in considering appropriate action.

The spam that I see most on here would be…

“Hi guys, I’m so and so from such and such program…”

“Oh I agree and that is why I don’t plan to do that on such and such site”

“I had such a great time and will have photos up on such and such site”

“Spam me with links for such and such site”

“Blog trades” (I have done this one. I thought about responding to an already crafted thread of the same title BUT not everyone revisits a trade thread once they make a post and get a response. Leading to less trades)

“Hi all, testing my stats… Can you go to such and such and click this and that?”

Or, a conversation between two people with loaded signature files, three pages long, talking about shoes.


Spam no matter how you twist it.

The new rule reminds me of 2257. Great idea in that kids need to be protected but forcing mature (50/80+) to follow along as if they “could” be 16 in someone’s eyes.

OOH! And in the Content forum...

Would posts about "New model on staff" or "Content blowout" be spam that now goes into the spam folder and not the content folder?


I guess I'm asking how far is the rule going to apply?

Well, the "new" rules aren't really any different than the rules have always been. But I do have to admit, I've been a lazy mod. I've let a lot of things slide. I think we all got really comfortable and let things slide more than we should. And Xstr8guy is right, this is not a very spammy board, but that's no reason to let it get that way. We all plug our stuff from time to time, and that is not what the concern is here, it's the people who come in and do nothing but spam their stuff, or you see one or two posts and they are immediately posting "Look at my Program" or "Sign up for this..." Even when the community regulars (or the GWW family as I like to call us, heh heh) post about our stuff, it's done in a conversational way and not just a cut and paste spam that goes on every board.

i say that considering how this is the biggest gay board... by far... we have a surprisingly low amount of spam, and some people who seem to post a LOT of their links still contribute.

I delete the odd thread here and there that's just useless spam and move a few to the spam board.

there was one spam thread that I intentionally left in this forum because it became a debate about what spam is.

and ultimatly, this is a board where we all come to do business.

I'm still working on my thread where I announce the Fratpad affiliate program that's going to make us all rich.

I do not considered that post, by Patti, to be spam. It is in the proper section, as far as I am concerned.

Not to be rude, Lee, but the board is somewhat of a mess and it will take some effort from the users, such as I, to help get it back in to proper order.

The perfect example is the fact that most (including me) post their "fun stuff" in the Gay Adult Industry Forum, as apposed to the
Gay Webmaster Fun section --- I am sure this happens because of the position (top of page) and because of the view/post count.

I for one welcome the idea of cleaning house, by doing things such as forcing spam and notices to the appropriate section, Announcement + Spam Forum.