Republicans

The talk in Tropixxx's thread has me all fired up and I need to vent.

Why should we liberals hold hands with Republicans and sing Kumbaya around the campfire just because the Democrats have won back the Congress? And now that the Dems have power, everyone in the media thinks we should be bipartisan. WHAT?!

NOT AFTER WHAT THEY'VE PUT US THROUGH THE LAST 6 YEARS!

The Iraq war...
We went to war for what reason again? We've been lied to since day one. Nearly 3,000 American soldiers have died, nearly 50,000 American non-fatal casualities, and approx. 50,000 civilian deaths just so corporations could profit and Bush could avenge (or embarass) his father.


Gay marriage...
Thanks to the religious conservative agenda we can never marry or have a civil union in 27 states due to state constitutional amendments. When did constitutional amendments start RESTRICTING civil rights?! You can thank the Republican next door for his hate.


Power, Corruption and Lies...
American people are not represented by their Republican Congressmen anymore. So many Americans have lost faith in their government because of the massive corporate corruption that has infected our Congressmen. Corporate profits have soared due to legislation that favors countless industries. Where do these extra profits come from? OUR POCKETS!

And the lying! Swiftboat Vets are just one of many THOUSANDS of lies perpetuated by republicans to maintain their strangle-hold on America. There are just too many others to even start to mention.


The poor keep getting poorer...
And the rich keep getting richer. Yes. it's the same old song and dance. But these past 6 years have been especially brutal on the poor and middle-class. Katrina made glaringly evident the lack of sympathy that the leaders of this country have for the poor. And those tax cuts that we were promised went to the rich... or course. Federal minimum wage hasn't increased in forever. The list goes on and on.


The liberal media... :huh:
Everytime you turn on the TV or radio you are bombarded by a religious conservative agenda... family values, christian morals, right to life (abortion, stem cell research and Terri Schiavo but embrace the death penalty) intelligent design (creationism), war on christmas, global warming denial, evil-gays, protect the children, jesus, jesus, jesus, guns, and more jesus. Oh fuck off already and go back to the stone-age!

And since the election, we have to constantly hear about how the dems need to be bipartisan. WHY?! Where was the media when republicans diminished the power of the congressional minority (dems) to non-existant pests? We've been forced to the back of the bus for too long by the republicans. It's time for us to set the agenda and control Congess with OUR values!


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neo cons are not republicans, they are a different breed. most republicans believe in LESS big government, not more as bush and our current guys believe in. neo cons also believe in spending like imelda marcos on a shoe buying trip where real republicans believe in careful spending.

besides, no one said we should hug them and sing khumbaya with them. what i'm saying is they have a right to their opinions as per the laws of this country. we don't have to like what they say but we should be protecting their right to say it as those are the same laws that give us our right to say the things we want to say.

You know Patti, I honestly don't hate all republicans but the neo-cons and the moral majority types dominate the current republican party by a wide margin. So until things change, I'm just going to lump them altogether. ;)

And by the way, I'm not exactly fond of the milder form of Reagan republicans either with their trickle-down voodoo economics. :p

what about this statement reminds me of ferris bueller... bueller... beuller...

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

And by the way, I'm not exactly fond of the milder form of Reagan republicans either with their trickle-down voodoo economics. :p

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Jim,

You should buy Andrew Sullivans new book, im reading it at the moment and it is very enlightening, basically the people who were Republicans before Bush got in to office are now starting to question *what* their political affiliation is nowadays because the values that the Republicans, Liberals and Democrats once adhered to are no longer the same.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by basschick

what i'm saying is they have a right to their opinions as per the laws of this country. we don't have to like what they say but we should be protecting their right to say it as those are the same laws that give us our right to say the things we want to say.

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I kind of agree with that but how far do you take it? What about the racist groups? If i ran for office saying that black people shouldnt be allowed to get married would that be ok? Free speech has its limits imo. To be more extreme, do i have the right to say that hitler had a point with the Jews? Do i have the right to say a certain group of people should be killed? What if people followed that advice? I DONT believe any of that but my thought is do i have the right to go on tv saying it?

Personally i think freedoms come with responcibilty and that includes tolerance and respect to all members of society. How many of us have emailed the hosts of sites like godhatesfags.com asking them to pull the site? To me sites like this are wrong as they cause many suicides of young kids who may be religious but gay also.

I know this is extreme and i know my examples are about violence and harming people, but preaching right wing hate DOES harm people all the time. Hate crimes, young suicides, people self harming, it all stems from intolerance and hate disguised as the "good christian way" (im christian and believe that God loves gay people, and the Bible is mis-quoted and translated poorly - i dont even think the religious right are reading their Bible properly).

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Originally Posted by marcjacob

Personally i think freedoms come with responcibilty and that includes tolerance and respect to all members of society.

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Agreed, however the problem is that more often than not those tolerance levels are continually pushed more and more in the name of free speech.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Agreed, however the problem is that more often than not those tolerance levels are continually pushed more and more in the name of free speech.

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I could have just said that lol. Think i was in rant mode hehe

i'm not seeing that it happens more and more - it's always been there. i read a lot of books from the 1800s and early 1900s when all sorts of prejudices were spoken of by predominantly white authors as fact.

want to see homophobia? one of the raymond chandler detective books shocked me with the frank, clueless and harmful attitude toward gay men. want to see prejudice in action toward children? some of the oz books by ruth plumley thompson (who took over after baum died) have black racial stereotypes that make me sick to my stomach. what about the prejudice of the 1905 book "the clansman"? that was turned into the equally prejudiced movie many consider a masterpiece, birth of a nation, by d.w. griffith.what about passion plays, which were nothing but hatred toward jews? and mel gibson made a new one just recently.

unfortunately hate and blatant disrespect of entire groups of people is nothing new :(

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Originally Posted by Lee

Agreed, however the problem is that more often than not those tolerance levels are continually pushed more and more in the name of free speech.

Regards,

Lee

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Simply replacing one angry group of politicians and beliefs with another group of angry politicians and beliefs simply breaks down this government. This government does not work when one belief system, party, or ideology rules with absolute authority. Every group has to compromise something. It's part of life. Why must everyone insist on winning it all.

amen!

and the same can be said of marriage, sports and a few other places where people seem to think winning is the only thing.

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

Every group has to compromise something. It's part of life. Why must everyone insist on winning it all.

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Originally Posted by Lee

Jim,

You should buy Andrew Sullivans new book...

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I didn't see a single word after you said "Andrew Sullivan". He is the SEXIEST looking republican I've ever seen! And not to mention that he is my partner's doppelgänger. Lol, I guess I'm lucky since I have the liberal version for myself.


The very handsome gay republican Andrew Sullivan....

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

Simply replacing one angry group of politicians and beliefs with another group of angry politicians and beliefs simply breaks down this government. This government does not work when one belief system, party, or ideology rules with absolute authority. Every group has to compromise something. It's part of life. Why must everyone insist on winning it all.

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This Pollyanna bullshit really pisses me off. Lol.

Where was the compromise for the past 6 years? Or even before that when republicans dominated Congress during Clinton's presidency? I didn't see much compromise then either. Checks and balances... pfft!

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Originally Posted by basschick

neo cons are not republicans, they are a different breed. most republicans believe in LESS big government, not more as bush and our current guys believe in. neo cons also believe in spending like imelda marcos on a shoe buying trip where real republicans believe in careful spending.

besides, no one said we should hug them and sing khumbaya with them. what i'm saying is they have a right to their opinions as per the laws of this country. we don't have to like what they say but we should be protecting their right to say it as those are the same laws that give us our right to say the things we want to say.

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:thumbsup:

besides why is anyone assuming Democrats would do better?
Not that it's not better to have some of the neocons sent packing

But time has yet to show what the Dems would do

Almost every democrat voted to give Bush the power to go to war. That one vote set the stage for the last 5 years. It's some of their own doing. They were so worried about opposing him I think against their better judgement. How wrong they were.

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

Almost every democrat voted to give Bush the power to go to war. That one vote set the stage for the last 5 years. It's some of their own doing. They were so worried about opposing him I think against their better judgement. How wrong they were.

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:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

Well said. This war is not the Republicans OR the Democrats fault. The fault lies with both...and with US for not standing up and saying no to our elected officials. (Although some argument could be made that the President lied about the reasons, and that the Democrats voted yes based on those lies....)

I for one supported the war at the time. Many of my countrymen did too. Alot of Americans were up for the war. The fault lies as much with us as with the politicians imo.

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

Well said. This war is not the Republicans OR the Democrats fault. The fault lies with both...and with US for not standing up and saying no to our elected officials. (Although some argument could be made that the President lied about the reasons, and that the Democrats voted yes based on those lies....)

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That's true to a point. But people can't make the proper decision if they aren't given the true facts. It's pretty well documented that Bush and company lied about WMD so they could convince everyone to start an unnecessary war.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

You know Patti, I honestly don't hate all republicans but the neo-cons and the moral majority types dominate the current republican party by a wide margin. So until things change, I'm just going to lump them altogether. ;)

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Well I would suggest looking at that differently. Amongst other things, most well known neo cons are Jewish. And the religious right is almost exclusively a evangelical / protestant movement. Those people do not trust Jews or even Catholics.

Watch CSPAN anytime Bill Kristol appears on the morning call in show, there will be call after call of religious right wingnuts pontificating about the Jewish conspiracy, people spinning yarns about a sinister US / Isreal alliance, along with huge helpings of anti semitism. In fact many think neocons are Jews who have infiltrated the government to make us protect Isreal.

Now I have lots and lots of problems with the Religious Right. They are driven by xenophobia, insist on building a Berlin Wall along the US/Mexico border. The religious right also hates NAFTA and all free trade agreements.

The neo-cons I do not think are horrible villains. In fact the reason they have been influential the past is because they have been the only people presenting a specific foreign policy view. Are there any other specific foreign policy intellectuals out there?

Basically, the United States is a two party country. So, picking the Republicans or the Democrats is similar to choosing the Blue Plate Special - you have to take everything, no substitutions.

There are many different flavors in both parties. Just find people with whom you identify with.

I'm also optimistically hoping that this election has turned a page on the religious right's influence.

Our government is designed so that everyone has to work together if they want to get anything accomplished. Remember, for years the Republicans ran everything, but they all squabbled and almost all of Bush's proposals went nowhere. (immigration reform, social security, making his tax cuts permanent)

This is what makes us different form say Canada or the United Kingdom, where they will vote in a government who pretty much does everything it wants until the voters elect a new one.

I'm very interested to see if the next two years will bring the return of the deal cutting, agreement making George W Bush as governor of Texas. While governor he masterfully handled a Democrat controleld state legislature. Things like getting Rumsfeld to resign and helping pass a higher minimum wage law portend to me that the old pragmatic Bush will come out, who will consequently frustrate the hard line Rep's and hard line Dem's.

Watching the hard liners of both parties rankled typically makes me smile.

Steve

I am politic'ed out! I'm not saying another word... at least for a while. I'm sure you're all are joyous... especially desslock and idolknights. ;)

Well I'm not "joyous" ... please. I always find your remarks interesting.

By the way, this weekend I am in Houston looking for places to rent or buy. After living in Austin for nineteen years, I've finally had it. I've had all my friends move away over the years, and I want to live in a bigger city..... one with better air flight connections....

Amazingly, I went out last night and in between JRs and the Mining Company, I ran into three people I knew who used to live in Austin. I'm sure tonight will be much the same.

After the holidays and the beginning of the year webmaster shows, I plan to make the switch. This will be the first time I've noved to a new city since going to college..... so I feel like I'm 18 again... :juggle:

Steve

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Originally Posted by desslock

By the way, this weekend I am in Houston looking for places to rent or buy. After living in Austin for nineteen years, I've finally had it. I've had all my friends move away over the years, and I want to live in a bigger city..... one with better air flight connections....

Amazingly, I went out last night and in between JRs and the Mining Company, I ran into three people I knew who used to live in Austin. I'm sure tonight will be much the same.

After the holidays and the beginning of the year webmaster shows, I plan to make the switch. This will be the first time I've noved to a new city since going to college..... so I feel like I'm 18 again... :juggle:

Steve

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Houston has a fun nightlife. People are so friendly, unlike Dallas. We usually visit friends twice a year for the holidays... a straight couple. But we usually go down there a day early so we can have some "gay-time" before we have 2 days of christian/republican/family values. And we usually sit around the fire pit, drink beer and argue politics until 3 in the morning. I bet you didn't think that my best friend is a straight christian republican. See, I don't hate all republicans. :D

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

I didn't see a single word after you said "Andrew Sullivan". He is the SEXIEST looking republican I've ever seen! And not to mention that he is my partner's doppelgänger. Lol, I guess I'm lucky since I have the liberal version for myself.


The very handsome gay republican Andrew Sullivan....

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Andrew Sullivan? God, he annoys me! What a santimonious a-hole! Have you ever seen him on Bill Maher's Real Time? Just watching the way he carries himself on the show makes me angry. He gets angry and offensive when he doesn't get his way, and his way of getting his point across is simply to thump his chest and squawk as loudly as possible. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

Andrew Sullivan? God, he annoys me! What a santimonious a-hole! Have you ever seen him on Bill Maher's Real Time? Just watching the way he carries himself on the show makes me angry. He gets angry and offensive when he doesn't get his way, and his way of getting his point across is simply to thump his chest and squawk as loudly as possible. Ugh.

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I still wanna fuck him. :D

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Originally Posted by desslock

I feel like I'm 18 again... :juggle:

Steve

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Heh every time I move I feel less like a college student and more like an old man. Hard for me to ever find the joy in moving