New Webmaster Show: Introducing the GAYVN Retreat!

Yes, folks, the rumors are true: We are launching our own gay-specific webmaster retreat, co-sponsored by Epoch, Cybersocket and Channel 1 Releasing. See below...

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2006-12-11

First GAYVN Webmaster Retreat Scheduled for October
By: Rick Richards
Posted: 3:30 pm PST 12-11-2006

CHATSWORTH, Calif. - AVN Media Network announced today that in addition to February's GAYVN Summit there will be a second, but-webmaster-specific, event held in October 2007...

Read all about it here:

http://avnonline.com/index.php?Prima...tent_ID=280574

In October? Because CCBill has their gay forum event in October?

Interesting stuff, i hope CCBill sticks to October for their gay forum event next year, because out of the two shows, im pretty sure who'll get the attendance :)

Regards,

Lee

I think another event similar to the Gay Phoenix Forum could be extremely valuable. I know that the GPF was and it showed that such an event could be extremely well attended, be a tremendous success, and help a lot of people. I'd love to attend as many as I could.

Just don't see why another such event has to be set up on a time frame to compete with, rather than compiment, the other. Why not spring? Summer? Any other month of the year?

I'd hate to see what could have grown and blossomed in to an invaluable resource for all of us for many, many years to come get damaged by competing events that affect attendance and resources because that doesn't help any of us - even those that might attend both.

Hopefully timeframes will be such that as many people as possible - especially those with smaller sites and more constrained budgets - will be able to attend both and not have to choose one over the other.

OK, so I'm going to get scolded by GayVN (and I DO like those folks personally) but it seems like the GayVN events are all big-name "pat yourself on the back" events for the SoCal companies. Does anyone else think it's about time the independent non-SoCal-clique folks organized their own awards competition and event? Maybe have it coincide with CCBill's October show? Just a thought..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by citiboyz

Does anyone else think it's about time the independent non-SoCal-clique folks organized their own awards competition and event? Maybe have it coincide with CCBill's October show? Just a thought..

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Everytime someone not in that 'clique' organizes something like that things go wrong, buses get cancelled or diverted, cops show up to raid the locations etc etc.

Its actually quite scary because it ONLY happens when its something that 'clique' isnt involved in.

On the plus side though, those events usually end up getting a lot more publicity and attendance and a lot of business gets done all around :)

Regards,

Lee

Well I think this new one could be an awesome event. By the looks of those putting it on they'd definitely have the resources and expertise to put together a kickass event.

I just hope neither one suffers on account of attendance ending up being split between the GPF and this new one, because that'd decrease the value of each to attendees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CorbinFisher_BD

Well I think this new one could be an awesome event. By the looks of those putting it on they'd definitely have the resources and expertise to put together a kickass event.

I just hope neither one suffers on account of attendance ending up being split between the GPF and this new one, because that'd decrease the value of each to attendees.

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Many thanx, Brian. I have to admit; I was a little surprised myself to see that the event was being scheduled for October. If I'd been consulted, I would have steered them away from that. Sadly, I don't have any control over the trade show department.

Should be totally fun, though. I mean, just look at those sponsors. :)

I just had a thought and wanted to throw it out there for discussion based on what Steven mentioned..

When you look at the webmaster events to attend, does seeing the same list of companies sponsoring an attending put you off going to the show in question?

I know over the past 12 months ive had a lot of one-on-one discussions with company owners who have been cutting back their show attendance for that very reason, same people, selling the same product, at the same shows, i was just wondering if anyone else felt this way?

Have webmaster shows become so saturated that they have lost their broader appeal so far as making new contacts and getting business done for the 'regular' webmaster goes?

I know we're not planning on attending any shows this coming year unless one of them stands out in terms of sponsors, location, and attendees.

If the same sponsors, same venue and same attendees go a show, no matter which, its not even going to be considered for us.

So what are you folks thoughts on this, does the fact that these shows happen at the same venue and times of the year, with the same sponsors and attendees put you off registering and actually attending?

Regards,

Lee

I'm glad to see more gay events, but I'm really, REALLY annoyed to see AVN being so petty as to try and directly compete with CCBill's events.

Nobody should forget how they initially tried to schedule Internext 2007 in March, conveniently competing with Phoenix Forum, and rescheduled it only when it became clear people would vote with their feet.

There is enough room for both AVN and CCBill to host successful events. Perhaps AVN has already learned from CCBill how to run a successful event in 2007, but AVN still has a lot to learn... gouging people $350 for a ticket to an event is not the way to get the up-and-coming webmasters that many big sponsor programs (gay and straight) are looking for, and attempting to directly compete with two very successful events is also not the way to do this.

The industry needs to work together, not to splinter itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

Nobody should forget how they initially tried to schedule Internext 2007 in March, conveniently competing with Phoenix Forum, and rescheduled it only when it became clear people would vote with their feet.

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You know, i totally did forget that they did this.

It does make you wonder why all of a sudden AVN seems to have their sights set on CCBill events.

No matter, lets just hope the retreat date DOESNT get changed and CCBill continues to schedule their Gay Phoenix Forum event in October, that will send a resounding message to AVN if it happens.

Regards,

Lee

I believe that attending industry events is a good thing. It means you're serious about being a part of this industry. I go to shows for the networking value. I don't expect to sell anything at the show itself. But IMHO there's too many damn shows and 1 or 2 a year is all I can justify, so I'm going to pick the ones I think have the best value for my business. I'm sure I'm not saying anything that 90% of you aren't already thinking, though.

Sorry I can't afford to go to two shows in the same month. Given the fiasco that I've always found the Internext shows to be -- what a disorganized mess -- they'll really have to pull out all of the stops to get me to another one.

Ken, I'd highly recommend you push the organizers to move the show to another date. Here's how it looks to me: Patrick Curran started the ccbill Gay Phoenix Forum, Patrick Curran left ccbill for Epoch, now Epoch and others have announced a new show in the same month as ccbill's. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

Or course, ccbill hasn't committed (I don't think) to doing another gay show in October, but still there do seem to be certain factions of this community that are happier when they're trying to split it up.

Michael

I think it's really unfortunate. Every one that went to the Gay Phoenix Forum this year thought it was a great event worthy of being supported. I agree with Chip - it would be to the gay industries benefit if events weren't scheduled at the same time.

A split audience kills the worth of sponsoring either event.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

Or course, ccbill hasn't committed (I don't think) to doing another gay show in October, but still there do seem to be certain factions of this community that are happier when they're trying to split it up.

Michael

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My impression in talking to Sherri and other folks at CCBill is there's no question there will be another Gay Phoenix Forum in 2007. The only issue they were discussing is where to hold it... they were interested in the Mission Palms, but the date coincides with football season so they thought it was unlikely they'd be able to get the Mission Palms. Haven't talked to them in a month or two so dunno what's up, but I'm guessing they are pretty booked out right now dealing with the regular Phoenix Forum in April.

Thanks for the info Chip - appreciated.

I agree scheduling this in October is just ridiculous. If you guys really want your show to be a success you have defintely started out on the wrong foot. Interesting how this has happened before too. I think if most webmasters had to choose they would go to the GPF. Sounds like a great idea if it were any other month but right now it sounds like a horrible idea being anytime in October.

Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

Patrick Curran started the ccbill Gay Phoenix Forum, Patrick Curran left ccbill for Epoch, now Epoch and others have announced a new show in the same month as ccbill's. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

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I really dont think that Epoch or Patrick had anything to do with the dates, bearing in mind that last time AVN did this Pat was still working at CCBill.

Personally i think the powers that be at AVN have lost sync with the industry and that Paul is trying to grab as much money from the industry as possible, that is the only reason why i can think of to have their thing in Feb which was billed in part i seem to recall as a 'webmaster' event and to have another in October.

Paul F has realized that the straight side of the industry are no longer interested in attending the Internext shows as they are unproductive for them, and it would also appear based on that article Ken wrote about this years Florida show, that the gay webmaster community is also quickly coming to the same conclusion as our straight counterparts have.

Shows just arent profitable to attend or sponsor anymore, im trying to remember when it was, i think about 2-3 years back we saw a major shift in the sponsorship and attendance patterns from several of the large industry players, ARS and MaxCash dropped their GameWorks events completely and even consolidated their show floor attendance and presence, CE dropped their usual larger than life show floor presence, SicCash, SilverCash, PlatinumBucks, TrafficCashGold, the list really does go on and on.

Yet at the same time, these exact same companies who started to consolidate their major tradeshow spending, started expanding their presence and attendance to the smaller, less formal gatherings, Phoenix, San Diego, Toronto, Curacao.

AVN are basically trying to remain profitable and still manage their tradeshows however, they realize that what they have been doing for the last X amount of years no longer working, but because they have lost touch with the industry, they dont know what works so they have to duplicate the successes of others, and charge attendees for all their hard work in duplicating the successes of others.

The industry has changed in the last 5 years, AVN has been told this on numerous occasions, by numerous people, on numerous boards, they chose not to listen, now they are feeling the effects of not listening to what they were told.

Regards,

Lee

Well the Florida was always a dog as far as I was concerned. You could practically count the gay attendance on two hands.

Michael

I appreciate your comments about the launch of this new show! Basically, I felt that a show in Los Angeles specifically for the gay webmaster market would be a success for everybody. It is very difficult picking a time and location with the many events ever month and with as much cross-over as there already is. Also, securing a hotel in major cities is not simple so, some times we just have to do what fits best. I personally tried to partner with CC Bill in regards to this venture for months but, could not even get a return phone call so, I had to move on my own. I run events differently than most and my business is to support the community. Additionally, I am not gouging people with the GAYVN Summit price as that is a different kind of show and if you look at what comes with it, including the paid speakers, the awards show and the very large amount of gifts plus all conference food is paid for and more, you will see that it is well worth it. That is a show for the entire industry, not just web, and the cost of the event and the goal is different. AVN is putting a lot into these events and I think it is important to facilitate the business this marketplace produces and in order to do that I feel that someone had to build events that accomplish just that. I don't restrict business as Lee stated and I don't make it difficult to participate. We are going to have two great events and I look forward to seeing everyone at these events! Please don't hesitate to email me if you have questions and/or concerns at chad@avn.com. Take care!

Chad Beecher

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cbeecher

I don't restrict business as Lee stated and I don't make it difficult to participate.

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Would you mind if we put that to a general vote Chad?

Im pretty sure the results will be an eye opener to us both :)

Regards,

Lee

It seems like a lot of response to this is that the AVN Tradeshow Group is again doing something wrong or bad. I personally, like the feedback and have been using it to make change in our business as any business should. However, I am running the GAYVN events out of the GAYVN division. I am doing things a bit differently for these events to really make a memorable experience and to bring as many people together as I can by offering as much as I can and I think the participants at either of the two events will experience that. Again, I would love to chat with anyone about these events or anything related to the industry, so please don't hesitate to email me at chad@avn.com. Take care!

Chad Beecher

I'd like to chime in here. I've seen the comments about AVN being out of touch and the comments on the cliques.

Anyone is invited to participate and be part of our shows and events. Our group has had a lot of conversations and we've done a lot of planning to create different productive and enjoyable business events in both the summit in February and the retreat in October.

When I came over to AVN almost two years ago it was because of Paul's commitment that he has had in the past and continues to give the Gay Adult Industry.

Before GAYVN became its own magazine there were at time only 3 advertisers supporting the Gay section but yet there was always plenty of editorial coverage of our industry as well as his commitment to continue to throw the GAYVN Award show as a thank you party to our industry.

With GAYVN now it's own division under Chad, we have worked even more closely with companies not only on the video side but as the industry is changing and the need to work across various platforms, have help facilitate more ways for the traditional hard good manufactures and content providers to create business partnerships with the internet companies.

A lot of companies have seen this value and have supported the magazine this past year and this January we are launching our largest issue of GAYVN at over 100 pages, thanks to the support of the industry.

At this summer's Internext we actually underestimated the GAY attendance and because of the support and attendance at our closing night party extended the evening longer then we initially committed for.

I am excited to be part of these upcoming events we have planned and really would like to invite everyone to first participate and then comment. Being part of the show or attending is open to anyone not an elite group of companies.

I am available and reachable through our offices all day. If I'm not in the office I am so addicted to my Blackberry that you can just email me your number and I will call you back. Before jumping to what is wrong with a show lets work on what all of us can do for the best show experience.

Jeff

I am really glad to see Chad and Jeff's input here, and particularly glad to know they are listening and interested.

The web communities and the film communities are certainly different, rarely talk to one another, and are almost completely different worlds. There are a few (and growing number of) companies that have their feet equally in both camps, but most are video companies with a couple small websites, or large webmaster programs with a handful of DVDs.

It's admirable to try to bring the two communities together, and I realize that was the (ill advised) intention behind putting AEE and Internext together in 2006... but I honestly believe that if AVN is to be successful with these events, it should really throw out everything that's been done before (including the revenue models) and re-invent from scratch, and NOT re-invent from within; the market is entirely too competitive now for an organization to create an event and hope it's what webmasters want; the reason that ccbill has been so wildly successful is that they organized their shows from the ground up around what webmasters wanted.

I know there was some attempt to reinvent the Florida Internext, and there's at least a nominal effort at that for Internext Vegas... but both of those reinventions were (as far as I know) created by AVN people deciding what they wanted to provide, rather than AVN saying to the potential sponsors and attendees "What would it take to make a fabulous show?"

CCBill seems to have that down. Ditto, from what I understand, the Island Gathering (which I've never been to, but heard great things about.)

Has anyone done any *detailed* market research to see if webmasters *want* a bunch of "gifts" vs an admission ticket that's $50 or $100 per person instead of $300? Has anyone looked at what it would take to have sponsors host and pay for the expensive parties instead of generating that from ticket revenues? Has anyone really looked into exactly what seminars are wanted and needed, then perhaps offered two-tiered pricing (as used to be the case) so the webmasters that want to network don't have to pay for something they won't use?

Maybe all of this has been done, and if so, my hat's off to you. I don't mean to come across as grumpy or negative... I've just spent many years consulting for companies who were often in the process of a product development cycle, and observed more than a few develop what looked like a great product internally, only to discover that the market wanted something else entirely, but nobody had bothered to really examine this, other than to make a few calls to some key customers.

Granted this industry is notoriously hard to get any consensus out of, but if you put your mind to it, you can make it happen. There are people who will give their time for free, if you ask, and with the right people, you can collect information from a LOT of different sources and sort it out and produce an event that people will want to go to.

I want to be clear that I'm not trying to just express annoyance with AVN; the first adult show I went to was Internext, and we've been to almost every AVN show since. I have just seen a consistent pattern of events that are growing more and more out of touch with what the community wants, while another group is producing events that are more and more *in* touch with what people want. There is definitely room for both AVN and CCBill to produce great shows, but it has to be done with a LOT of input from the communities they are trying to serve, and it should certainly be done with the interests of the overall community put first, avoinding even the *appearance* of trying to "steal the thunder" of another show.

Of course, all of the above is just my humble opinion :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cbeecher

I personally, like the feedback and have been using it to make change in our business as any business should.

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I don't think you have listened to the feedback. Independent webmasters have been screaming -- begging -- for you to make your shows more accessible to us. But what did you do? You moved the Vegas show from the $300 a night Mandalay Bay (or was it $400) to the $500 a night Venetian. And you booked your show in Vegas to coincide with two other huge conferences that made it impossible for anyone to find a reasonably priced room anywhere.

Your show pass is still $250 to $300 depending upon when you register. ccbill manages to throw a show with free attendance. Your GAYVN Summit is also $300.

You rarely ever have a seminar agenda posted in a timely manner, so attendees cannot make a reasonable decision about whether that part of the show is worthwhile. I'm certainly surprised that the Summit seminar schedule is in fact posted because this isn't normal AVN behaviour.

I've been to three AVN shows and seen almost the exact same line-up of seminars each time. They almost appear to be an afterthought.

Michael