Paying a Consultant?

I have resonantly been thinking about paying a consultant to take a look at my business model and help improve thing where ever possible. Hell I would probably even consider paying 2 separate consultants at some point, and too quote our glorious leader “its good to get a new set of eyes on it” I just have a few questions about this I guess.

Are their really good people in this area that specialize in the gay adult market and who are they?

What is the price ranging on this stuff?

Can you recommend someone (not only yourself LOL)?

What would you consider the normally service of someone like this?

Dont waste your money Sean, if you cant listen to free advice given by those in the know on GWW you certainly wont listen to advice you have paid for.

Just my $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Dont waste your money Sean, if you cant listen to free advice given by those in the know on GWW you certainly wont listen to advice you have paid for.

Just my $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Just because I challenge some things does not mean I do not believe them or think they might be right.

Just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by maxpower

Just because I challenge some things does not mean I do not believe them or think they might be right.

Just my $0.02

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:edit:

Just because I challenge some things does not mean I do not believe them or think they are wrong necessarily

Just my $0.02

See if I could edit longer it would help some of us Lee

most - not all - of the consultants people i know have had dealings with cost around $2500 and up and gave little or no results. when i do consulting, i either charge an hourly fee with each part of the work being approved in writing by the client or else i quote by the project after finding out what needs to be done.

if you go with a consultant, get some references. there are people out there who charge a flat fee and imo that isn't possible since every site, niche, situation and webmaster is different.

I agree with Patti - a fix all flat fee situation isn't what most webmasters need. I'd look for those willing to tackle certain problems on an hourly or per job payment arrangement.

And I suggest to take one or two of the guys and GIRLS on this very board - the folks here are VERY knowledgable


DEVELISH

Interesting thread.

(I know first post here) ;-)

Most consulting we've done over the years is based on a (smaller) flat fee + incentive (% payout increase following months).

Flat fees don't work since it destroys the consultants name if things don't work out ..

My 2 cnts

->

i never take work for a percentage for more than 1 reason.

one is that several attorneys have told me that if you take a percentage, you are more likely to be prosecutable if the site has legal troubles - even if they have nothing directly to do with you.

clients are never obligated to implement your suggestions or use your work. i have one client spend over a hundred grand on his sites and the things he was doing wrong were all pretty obvious but he wouldn't change them. in fact, he had to sell those sites and his program to someone who is now running them at a profit. i'm glad i got paid my hourly rate because i wouldn't have made any money on a percentage deal.

of course, one can take only the jobs where the clients are obligated to use one more as a project manager, but that's really not the same as consulting although i have done both,

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Originally Posted by basschick

most - not all - of the consultants people i know have had dealings with cost around $2500 and up and gave little or no results. when i do consulting, i either charge an hourly fee with each part of the work being approved in writing by the client or else i quote by the project after finding out what needs to be done.

if you go with a consultant, get some references. there are people out there who charge a flat fee and imo that isn't possible since every site, niche, situation and webmaster is different.

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Thanks Bass, Ya you would defiantly be at the top my list of all the people on this board (well that would even consider doing consulting) you seem to understand viewers in my niche as well as the market as a whole, which is rare. (OMG it seems soooo RARE sometimes) Things are just changing so fast right now, really faster and bigger than about anytime I can remember, and I am trying to expand at the same time and I am just getting a bit sea sick. I am really thinking after the new year I am going to give this consulting stuff a real shot, and I will defiantly be contact you about this first.

Ya most of the “work” I guess in my mind come down too, Q&A stuff, Tutorials, Reviews, Suggestions, stuff like that really very intangible things I guess, but necessary to have differing once to mine sometimes. And yes I know some on the board will say that is what this board is for, but sometime you do get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by Bec

I agree with Patti - a fix all flat fee situation isn't what most webmasters need. I'd look for those willing to tackle certain problems on an hourly or per job payment arrangement.

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Could you recommend someone that is effective and affordable that would now my niche (other than Bass?) “god I don’t ask for much hu” Its just that I would like a back-up consultant take a second look at things like 6 months after I work with the first one, maybe even keep rotating them in the distant future or something like that if it works out as a good long term idea. It would just be really nice to have options and a better feel for how all this stuff works.

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Originally Posted by fabianb

Interesting thread.

(I know first post here) ;-)

Most consulting we've done over the years is based on a (smaller) flat fee + incentive (% payout increase following months).

Flat fees don't work since it destroys the consultants name if things don't work out ..

My 2 cnts

->

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I don’t know about a % thing man I am open to talk about possibly if need be, but would have to think about some kind of term limit on those %’s

Maxpower:

I have an out of the box suggestion. Consider befriending people with some good business skills. I have always made it a point to get to know people who have talents beyond me, not only have I benefitted from watching them work, but later on I have a friend to lean on for questions.

Now specifically to our business, one of the main benefits for me in attending shows is that I can meet people like this, who I otherwise would never get to know.

Patti and Bec are absolutely correct - finding a "consultant" will essentially mean that you find someone who will take one to two thousand dollars from you and say Thanks!

Personally I wouldn't do that. There is no shortage of people on the boards, at the shows, everywhere giving endless streams of advice. My constant issue has been applying myself to do what I need to do with such information.

Steve

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Originally Posted by desslock

Maxpower:

I have an out of the box suggestion. Consider befriending people with some good business skills. I have always made it a point to get to know people who have talents beyond me, not only have I benefitted from watching them work, but later on I have a friend to lean on for questions.

Now specifically to our business, one of the main benefits for me in attending shows is that I can meet people like this, who I otherwise would never get to know.

Patti and Bec are absolutely correct - finding a "consultant" will essentially mean that you find someone who will take one to two thousand dollars from you and say Thanks!

Personally I wouldn't do that. There is no shortage of people on the boards, at the shows, everywhere giving endless streams of advice. My constant issue has been applying myself to do what I need to do with such information.

Steve

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Well man not sure I can get much help with allot of this stuff from the boards, no offence but most the people on the boards are Rep’s, or really just promoting their programs or have no idea what my market is like. I do try from time to time too get info from the boards, but the big stuff most of the time people will not talk about you know. Like optimizing your sites for search engine traffic, or maybe better connections with companies that will help promote your program.

And what advice do I lesson too, and from who? Now I would love to pay someone like Mark or get a endless stream of free advice from him LOL, but for the most part people that can perform at that leave do not have time to mess with me. Not that I do not understand that, but still I work alone I can not watch other people work or anything I have to kind of make this stuff up as I go. It would be nice to get a real review on marketing from people that would fell comfortable with really helping me, not really used to getting to much for free. I am sure their are many things I am not doing correctly, and others I have not even thought of, that would be better to spend my available time on.

Max... just out of curiousity is that twink movie site you were building last year up and running? If so can you post or PM me the URL (unrelated to this thread.)

thanks
Dave

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Originally Posted by ArmpitLover

Max... just out of curiousity is that twink movie site you were building last year up and running? If so can you post or PM me the URL (unrelated to this thread.)

thanks
Dave

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Ya sure I will do that, just dont want to burn it out before its ready.

But man I must say that the sites are not really the problem or what I am after, more effective ways to dive traffic to my sites, and I am about to open an affiliate program for the first time would like to start off running with that too.

Some of the people on this board would be great consultants, but all the professional consultants we've ever worked with were awful wastes of money and some even hurt our business. Feel free to pm me privately for more info.

Max,

Just a hint. Before hiring a consultant, why not try changing the way you deal with people here first.

Let me be blunt and my hope is to help you, not hurt you. But I have to tell it like it is first. Most of the people here find you to be an ass -- flippant, critical, argumentative, and quick with the reply button. You have a reputation of not listening, but just droning on about things and not listening.

Now, if you worked on your board personality so that you were more helpful with your posts, then you'd probably find a lot of people would be willing to chat with you on AIM and give you free advice. I can be an ass, too, and a little quick with my reply button (check the link list thread) but I also try to be helpful. I've built up a number of good relationships with people here, several of whom I can always buzz for advice.

In my close relationships here, I work with people, give as much as I take (I hope), help with links and cross-selling. Hell, look at xstr8guy and me, we have the exact same products with a lot of the same content and we still send one another traffic. We co-operate, we don't compete. I've gotten heaps of free advice from Bec, Lee, AndyMike, basschick, GayDemon, JUB Bryce, Brian Pistol Media, Andy Dill, and many others.

If you really want to make it in this business, I think you need friends. Consultants, while they may deliver some information to you, really just want your money. That's not to say that they're all bad. But I would listen to Bec more carefully than I would listen to some consultant I didn't know.

Take, for instance, the AVS is dead thread we recently thrashed about. You continued to argue with me about whether AVS is dead or not, and I worked for an AVS for two years in one stint and a year and a half in another contract. I've been in the AVS market since 2001 both personally and professionally. While AVS has changed and it's not the cash cow it once was, it's far from dead and still quite profitable. Yet you wouldn't listen to what I had to say. You had your ideas and there was no getting through, and on more than one occasion I thought, "Why am I trying?"

Sure, you may have thought I was a board rep just trying to get your business, but my "Dzinerbear's Moving On" post had 24 replies and 268 views. It was kicking around for quite some time. How'd you miss it?

Max, I think you'll find that if you try to contribute more real information and opinion here rather than just "going off," you'll find that over time you'll start building relationships, and these people will be willing to help you. But for now I think so many people have you on "ignore" that you're not even getting through.

But the fact is that people still try to help you. That speaks to the quality of people we have here. These people who take the time to reply to your posts aren't after anything. They just want to help.

Why not try and benefit from the incredible resource that you have right in front of you, and why not start by reaching out and trying to build good, solid relationships. You can see by the responses here that in spite of rubbing people the wrong way, they're still willing to help you.

Anyway, enough. I'm truly sorry if I've hurt you, but I think -- I hope -- the blatant honesty will help you.

Michael

speaking as a boardmember and a consultant (and sometimes project manager), i'd like to point out that asking advice on a board can get you a lot more advice. the problem is that without a lot of knowledge - and depending on the advice, even with a lot of knowledge, there's no way to know which suggestions are good ones. all advice is not equal.

btw, desslock, i have worked as a consultant for over 8 years and one thing about hiring a consultant - one that the client has talked everything over with - makes the client a lot more likely to really listen and implement changes than from getting advice on a board.

sure, there are plenty of horror stories out there but that doesn't mean there are no good consultants. it means get referrences - plenty of references - and check them!

Basschick: Good point to me about consulting. I didn't intend to paint such a black and white picture. As an example, if I decided to expand my business into China... that would be a really new area which could deem some paid consulting. However, if I wanted some advice on the very basics of my day to day business... I'm not so sure hiring a consultant would be the right way to go.

Everyone's situation is different, your mileage may vary.

If you were a culinary chef running a restaurant, you should probably consider hiring a consultant on an alien subject - like putting up a website for the restaurant. However if you were a webmaster, I'd be careful of hiring people to tell you how to run a website business. That's my distinction.

So much of running a small business.... particularly our kinds of businesses.. is trial and error. But that's okay, for me that's how I've attempted to be innovative. And of course my own mistakes don't happen to cost me very much, out of pocket at least.

I suspect that MaxPower, however, has set his expectations improperly regarding what to receive from hiring consultants for your main business.

Steve :frog:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

Max,

Just a hint. Before hiring a consultant, why not try changing the way you deal with people here first.

Let me be blunt and my hope is to help you, not hurt you. But I have to tell it like it is first. Most of the people here find you to be an ass -- flippant, critical, argumentative, and quick with the reply button. You have a reputation of not listening, but just droning on about things and not listening.

Now, if you worked on your board personality so that you were more helpful with your posts, then you'd probably find a lot of people would be willing to chat with you on AIM and give you free advice. I can be an ass, too, and a little quick with my reply button (check the link list thread) but I also try to be helpful. I've built up a number of good relationships with people here, several of whom I can always buzz for advice.

In my close relationships here, I work with people, give as much as I take (I hope), help with links and cross-selling. Hell, look at xstr8guy and me, we have the exact same products with a lot of the same content and we still send one another traffic. We co-operate, we don't compete. I've gotten heaps of free advice from Bec, Lee, AndyMike, basschick, GayDemon, JUB Bryce, Brian Pistol Media, Andy Dill, and many others.

If you really want to make it in this business, I think you need friends. Consultants, while they may deliver some information to you, really just want your money. That's not to say that they're all bad. But I would listen to Bec more carefully than I would listen to some consultant I didn't know.

Take, for instance, the AVS is dead thread we recently thrashed about. You continued to argue with me about whether AVS is dead or not, and I worked for an AVS for two years in one stint and a year and a half in another contract. I've been in the AVS market since 2001 both personally and professionally. While AVS has changed and it's not the cash cow it once was, it's far from dead and still quite profitable. Yet you wouldn't listen to what I had to say. You had your ideas and there was no getting through, and on more than one occasion I thought, "Why am I trying?"

Sure, you may have thought I was a board rep just trying to get your business, but my "Dzinerbear's Moving On" post had 24 replies and 268 views. It was kicking around for quite some time. How'd you miss it?

Max, I think you'll find that if you try to contribute more real information and opinion here rather than just "going off," you'll find that over time you'll start building relationships, and these people will be willing to help you. But for now I think so many people have you on "ignore" that you're not even getting through.

But the fact is that people still try to help you. That speaks to the quality of people we have here. These people who take the time to reply to your posts aren't after anything. They just want to help.

Why not try and benefit from the incredible resource that you have right in front of you, and why not start by reaching out and trying to build good, solid relationships. You can see by the responses here that in spite of rubbing people the wrong way, they're still willing to help you.

Anyway, enough. I'm truly sorry if I've hurt you, but I think -- I hope -- the blatant honesty will help you.

Michael

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I truly do want a good relationship with all the members of this board and the adult community as a whole, but I am a webmaster after all sensationalizing things is in my blood, so I hope you will expect my apology.

No one cares if you say “ever decreasing sales and traffic” but if you say DEAD, then all of a sudden people start to pay attention. I don’t know its just how the world works sometime man.

I would love nothing more than to work out some equitable relationship with everyone on this board, and I am working hard to create the most profitable sites possible for its affiliates, as well as working with as many trusted professional leaders in our industry I can, to insure a professional and trusted system for everyone involved.

Again I would like to apologize too anyone that is upset with me I will try in the future to not annoy everyone. :crybaby: