How Have No Console Links Affected PPS Sponsors Revenue?

So i was just wondering, with more and more sponsors offering no console links for their affiliates, and more and more affiliates wanting to use no console links, how has this impacted PPS sponsors overall?

I know a lot of the PPS sponsors look at consoles as a way to subsidize their payouts and lack of retention however, im also wondering, with more and more sponsors offering higher PPS payouts, where is this additional revenue coming from for them?

Were consoles a lot smaller than everyone though so far as income generation for the PPS sponsors or have they found somewhere new to off-set the costs of offering per signup payouts to their affiliates?

Just wondered if anyone had any insight or thoughts on this, if console free has become the thing that everyone wants, how can raised payouts or same level payouts as tours with consoles continue to be profitable for these PPS sponsors?

Regards,

Lee

most console free options pay less, often $10 less per sale. if $5 to $10 of every sale made, on average, $5 - $10, that's pretty substantial. also what i'm seeing is more and more upsells in the member area, sometimes very misleading and sometimes just TONS of them. i'm sure that helps make up for the consoles.

You know Lee, I was just wondering this very thing the other day. I can't see how they do it...sometimes even with the exit chains....much less giving the affiliates a way around them.

I have seen a lot of recurring programs offer sometimes a 10% difference in payout levels with or without consoles...

I can't see how they make these payout levels I see today anyway, even with consoles... it's gotta be upsells in the members areas..maybe email marketing...

(1) agressive one button upsell. Trial only allows access to limited content.
A one click allows full access. One click results in full membership.
Avoids the 'free riders'. No idea about gay numbers but in the mass straight market 50-60% trial cancels within hours.
Not allowed with ccbill if I am informed correctly.

(2) Cascade billing, not seen with the rev share programs and haven't see a lot of that with the gay programs.

(3) Triple cascade and geo targetting EURO countries to euro creditcard processors (ecommercegate.com / epoch.com europe).

(4) Email marketing, value 47 cnts per in the straight market, no idea about values in gay market, I assume higher. Ratio: 45 visitors results in one email

(5a) One very smart trick which I can't disclose, adds 4% and very clean user experience.
(5b) 2nd very smart trick which ads approx. 8% revenue on cancelled members.

(6) More agressive geo targetting, something not seen a lot on gay sites.
E.g. I can hit almost any gay site from Panama but can only hit half on straight.

(7) You should read klixxx more .. ads x% to your bottom line.

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Sorry forgot one:

(8) cutting costs ..

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we used to get 10% of our sales from our exit. if you add email collection with very smart mailers that not only push paysites but also offer join4free sites that sell DVDs, site memberships and anything else you can sell, exit chains, cancel plus cross sales and throw in 15% or 20% recurring, looks like a good amount of money to me. then inside the member area can be dating, DVDs, PPV and other stuff, as well.

that's not counting dialer money or member email lists, either.

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Originally Posted by basschick

most console free options pay less, often $10 less per sale. if $5 to $10 of every sale made, on average, $5 - $10, that's pretty substantial. also what i'm seeing is more and more upsells in the member area, sometimes very misleading and sometimes just TONS of them. i'm sure that helps make up for the consoles.

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Patti,

This is true however, the members area's typically have those whether or not the surfer joins through a regular or a no console link so revenue wise, the vaue of the member for the program stays the same.

Im more interested in finding out the value of the traffic instead to the PPS sponsors.

Has offering no console increased the traffic values of surfers overall because more affiliates are sending traffic due to no console options or, has the value of the traffic stayed the same for programs?

We all know that PPS sponsors not offering console free are making an additional 15-20% in sales from the consoles, im just wondering how, if the members areas still have the same amount of upsells in them, the value for the traffic being sent (in terms of the program owner) have changed over the past 12-24 months and how that translates in to actual in-house revenues.

A program offering both tours with consoles on them and no console tour automatically put a higher value on the traffic going to the regular tours because that traffic stands to make the program more right off the bat, before the surfer even becomes a member.

Regards,

Lee

Dosent bother us at all. If you have quality sites that surfers will return to after they join once then the $30-35 that you pay to the refering webmaster initially is negligible. Either that or they just enjoy the site and rebill for a long time.
We have some guys that come back 3 or 4 times within a year after being introduced to PrideMov. But on the other hand if you have sites that arent going to tempt members to return again than you pretty much have to have upsells, xsells, exits..
Those are basically the two models that affiliate programs operate under.

I don't think it is a problem as long as your site retains well. If you site doesn't retain well you would need to make up the lost income somehow. As for a higher value I would say that both pop and no pop remain the same. I always hope for the surfer to join one of our sites no matter what though.

Mark

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Originally Posted by IntenseCash.com

I don't think it is a problem as long as your site retains well. If you site doesn't retain well you would need to make up the lost income somehow. As for a higher value I would say that both pop and no pop remain the same. I always hope for the surfer to join one of our sites no matter what though.

Mark

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Right..Give the surfers quality/quantity/ease of use/ and you will do just fine whether it's console-free, console-hell..whatever..

So in theory, if consoles dont really add any revenue to your programs..

You'll be dropping them completely sometime in the next few days i presume?

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that you wont because losing the consoles will lose you revenues, despite your claims that they dont matter.

So again, how has the no console options you offer, affected your revenues in the past few years? Are you finding your in house revenues dropping as more and more affiliates choose the no console linking options?

In laymans terms, in the past 2 years, how much money have you lost because of affiliates sending traffic to no console tours? Anyone who says they havent lost revenues from adding no console tours is a liar.

Regards,

Lee

I'm not saying they dont add revenue. But the % they add to the bottom line is really small. Maybe 1% of net if i had to guess. Maybe before all the advanced pop-up blockers and firefox it was better..but these days i dont see how anyone could even factor console revenue into the plan when formulating thier biz model as it is so small.

meh .............
If the sponsor/membership is worth a fuck and the affiliate is worth a fuck rev share is the clear business choice for both. If you (as a sponsor/paysite) offer PPS the only one of the triad (paysite/member/affiliate) who stands to get fucked the hardest is the affiliate. If a paysite injects a console or popup/popunder, as for me you are history in my book as an affiliate. If your paysite has minimal value and can't sell itself, what good are 'impulse buy' popups/consoles? It has 0 (zero) value to me as an affiliate, so why promote it? Does your paysite have any value to the member? Probably not, not if you had to con the initial sale.

Rebills? probably not. Chargebacks? probably. So keep on churning affiliates and members. I'm sure that's profitable. Just the accounting costs alone would eat up the extra nickels. IMHO

Why does online porn have such a tarnished reputation? Jeez...let me think...gosh, I dunno? strongarm marketing? popups? scumware? jeez, i dunno? any ideas? Promises with no delivery? surely not.

This entire thread is about fucking someone out of their money. Either members, affiliates, or both.

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Originally Posted by glowlite

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This entire thread is about fucking someone out of their money. Either members, affiliates, or both.

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Actually Larry, no it is not about fucking anyone out of anything.

Do you not see the posts that emphasize quality products to create returning customers?

The thread is a discussion of the business model supporting the use of exit consoles (simple traffic filtering) as it relates to the new trend of offering affiliates a choice of which to promote and the resulting sales results to the sponsor program. Has absolutely nothing to do with fucking anyone out of any money at all.

Sure there are programs that are less than honorable, there are those who create horrible traffic traps for the surfer that he can't escape from, yes, there are those programs that don't have any content to retain members and don't really give a rats ass about it either.....

But just as in any business climate there are those who take the high road, those that take the low road..... it's not just the internet business or the adult business.....it's all business...globally. This thread, however is not about that. it's about an honest evaluation of a business model, a comparison .... nothing to do with fucking anyone out of any money.

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Originally Posted by tombarr

This thread, however is not about that. it's about an honest evaluation of a business model, a comparison .... nothing to do with fucking anyone out of any money.

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I agree Tom although, im guessing thats why the original question was skirted around, because of affiliates who simply do not like consoles and do take Larry's stance that they are simply put there to fuck the affiliate and the surfer.

The simple fact is, we all know consoles work, if they didnt, they wouldnt be so rife in the industry, im wondering how well they actually work these days though with the inception of SP2 and following updates.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

The simple fact is, we all know consoles work, if they didnt, they wouldnt be so rife in the industry, im wondering how well they actually work these days though with the inception of SP2 and following updates.

Regards,

Lee

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Well as someone who is actively on a tremendous amount of sites on a daily basis, probably a lot more than an actual surfer would be, I can tell you it's quite rare for popups to actually "work" on my computer and I'm not even using the higher security default settings.

Given that most pc users don't know how to even adjust the advance settings, they're probably seeing even less of them than I am.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

The simple fact is, we all know consoles work, if they didnt, they wouldnt be so rife in the industry, im wondering how well they actually work these days though with the inception of SP2 and following updates.

Regards,

Lee

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This is precisely the reason that factoring consoles into your model at all is a mistake when crunching the numbers. Maybe 1%..With like 30% of surfers using firefox these days you cant count on them. If the pops arent blocked by firefox or IE or yahoo toolbar or google toolbar..or..on and on.
Like i said pop revenue is negligible these days.

Well, even despite SP2 there are still a slew of sponsors that do pop consoles on every surfer, whether they have SP2 install or other types of pop-up blockers, there has to be a reason they keep finding ways around these console blockers, could it be because they are still profitable?

I mean, if they werent, they wouldnt be popping them in the first place $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Well, even despite SP2 there are still a slew of sponsors that do pop consoles on every surfer, whether they have SP2 install or other types of pop-up blockers, there has to be a reason they keep finding ways around these console blockers, could it be because they are still profitable?

I mean, if they werent, they wouldnt be popping them in the first place $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Unless of course they didn't want to drop the payout amount they give affiliates. Some programs probably see their own doom in dropping payouts.

I got rid of consoles because they were too difficult to pop and the amount of traffic and revenue they generated was on a steady decline. So, I just removed them and adjusted payouts accordingly. I would much rather focus on giving members a great experience both outside and inside the paysite than trying to figure out how to keep up with blockers :)