Are Animal Experiments ok?

Been watching a really interesting documentary about Animal experiments, tests on animals for medical purposes. It really challenged my fundamental belief that testing on animals is bad. I always thought that the animals suffered for example, turns out many are unconcious and put down before waking. Also they showed some of the conditions we can cure as a result.

I wondered what everyone here thinks.

I know most here are animal lovers but i guess were also people lovers. So if you can cure nasty diseases but have to test on animals to get those drugs, is it ok?

For me, im not sure i believe this idea that the animals dont suffer. Im still not happy about cosmetic testing and never will be, but im unsure now about medical tests. It seems different if you cure a dieing child because of it.

I just read that thy did some genome mutations or thelike on rats so they can be infected with human HIV viruses. They could use those rat-types to test medication more quickly.

For Desslock & german speakers: http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/m...457451,00.html

:D

for y'all others :D long url here

it's VERY rare that animal experimentation is okay with me. in fact, i have boycotted products that do them for over 14 years. most experiments have no reason to them - consider testing sunblock on animals. their melanim is not the same as ours, but also they are naturally fur-bearing. this means their skin is not designed to be in the sun - but human skin IS. so we aren't really gathering any useful information that way as their skin and eyes are almost totally different.

most - not all but most - information that the government makes companies test for is literally already known anyway. in fact, most of the info is so well known that you can use computers to run the tests because we already know every possible animal response to most chemicals.

and considering that pigs, rabbits and mice don't get the same diseases we do, experimenting on them is also lame because where we have certain antibodies, we expose them to diseases they literally don't get - so again, the response is totally different than it would be in a human.

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Originally Posted by basschick

it's VERY rare that animal experimentation is okay with me. in fact, i have boycotted products that do them for over 14 years. most experiments have no reason to them - consider testing sunblock on animals. their melanim is not the same as ours, but also they are naturally fur-bearing. this means their skin is not designed to be in the sun - but human skin IS. so we aren't really gathering any useful information that way as their skin and eyes are almost totally different.

most - not all but most - information that the government makes companies test for is literally already known anyway. in fact, most of the info is so well known that you can use computers to run the tests because we already know every possible animal response to most chemicals.

and considering that pigs, rabbits and mice don't get the same diseases we do, experimenting on them is also lame because where we have certain antibodies, we expose them to diseases they literally don't get - so again, the response is totally different than it would be in a human.

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As ever great and well thought out reply. To play devils advocate. Say you had a medical illness that could be cured. But the drugs used to cure it had been tested on animals, or that the treatment was the result of animal tests. You wouldnt boycot that right? Does that not mean that your ok with those tests when its suits? Again, just devils advocate. I tend to agree with what you said.

i wrote a long answer to this, than realized you did it to me again.

how about you post some stuff about webmastering?

I have done.

Ive posted in the thread about are sponsors allowed to shut you down for no reason:

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=21369

And started:

Do you feel ashamed about what you do

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=21344

Affiliate programs through verotel

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=21368

I wasnt aware my ratios were being monitored.

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Originally Posted by basschick

how about you post some stuff about webmastering?

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I would have to agree. Maybe you should put this stuff in GayWebmaster Fun. (Although I don't see how testing animals can be fun...but who knows.

:bunny: :whip:

No, not really fun.

I would like to see the new year keep this forum topic focused a little more on industry stuff. Just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by basschick

and considering that pigs, rabbits and mice don't get the same diseases we do, experimenting on them is also lame because where we have certain antibodies, we expose them to diseases they literally don't get - so again, the response is totally different than it would be in a human.

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That's what I don't like ... or get. THAT just seems so unnecessary and useless.

Hell no!

I know that too many people like to think we humans have more rights, or deserve to be on this rock more than any other creature, and would say yes, but they are wrong!

A life is a life no matter how one looks at it, so at the end of the day all lives are equal, or are supposed to be!

As for those christians whom say yes (it is okay to experiment on animals): what happened to your do unto to others attitude?
or is your religion truly that much of a joke?

i wasn't going to return to this thread, but seeing your name as the last person who posted, i took a shot.

thanks, paco! i felt put upon but this is what i also think. no lifeform is more or less important than any other.

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Originally Posted by Paco

Hell no!

I know that too many people like to think we humans have more rights, or deserve to be on this rock more than any other creature, and would say yes, but they are wrong!

A life is a life no matter how one looks at it, so at the end of the day all lives are equal, or are supposed to be!

As for those christians whom say yes (it is okay to experiment on animals): what happened to your do unto to others attitude?
or is your religion truly that much of a joke?

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Originally Posted by basschick

i wasn't going to return to this thread, but seeing your name as the last person who posted, i took a shot.

thanks, paco! i felt put upon but this is what i also think. no lifeform is more or less important than any other.

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I am a magnet. I suck ... people, in.

Throughout my life, I have lived with way too many fuzzy companions for me to think differently.

I am THE :king: of all trollers ;)
ft_zzzzzzzzzzz...
p.s. sorry for making you add to this OT (off topic) thread.

I think where it's necessary, it's necessary. If they can't simulate the tests using computers (many of these tests can be simulated, it has been shown), then I'm more apt to accept animal testing when it has to do with curing cancer or AIDS or something like that.

In terms of cosmetic testing or ANYTHING along those lines, where it's about product consumption or marketing or commoditization, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. It should be made illegal.

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Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude

In terms of cosmetic testing or ANYTHING along those lines, where it's about product consumption or marketing or commoditization, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOT. It should be made illegal.

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Yeah that makeup testing is appalling.

And who ever thought painting your eyelids blue was attractive anyway? That still mystifies me.

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Originally Posted by basschick

thanks, paco! i felt put upon but this is what i also think. no lifeform is more or less important than any other.

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My dog (weiner dog) just pissed on my laptop. I was sitting on the couch, and I got up to get a drink of water...come back...and walla.

I am herby giving notice that my dauchsaund is now availiable for testing. Inquire within.

- Michael

PS. Just kidding. He did pee on my laptop, but he is not availiable for testing. Unles you can test things on dead animals.

PPS. Just kidding, he is not dead, he is right here. I love my dog most days.

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

My dog (weiner dog) just pissed on my laptop.

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I know someone who just got one of those. Is it NATURAL for them to bite EVERYTHING in sight (people included) and steal shoes when they're newborns?

How about we send a few people out into the woods so the bears can test the sharpness of their claws and determine if they need adjustments. Or how about we tie down a few people and let some rats chew on them so the rats can tell what time of day is best for softer skin to chew on.

Humans rule over all creatures for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Opposable Thumbs. Does NOT mean we should fuck with them doing all kinds of test and trials. I HATE animal testing and hope the board members/owners of companies that do so catch a wicked case of flesh eating virus in their crotch!

--Chubbs

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

I know someone who just got one of those. Is it NATURAL for them to bite EVERYTHING in sight (people included) and steal shoes when they're newborns?

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Yes, and according to the book I have, you should warn them that they use piss to express extreme displeasure. So far I have had my laptop pissed on, my pillow, by bed, my shoes, etc.

Everytime it snows they (I have two of them) get pissed and piss on something I own to express their disdain for going outdoors.

I even shovel them a path to a patch of grass I shovel off. Tell your friend good luck.

it is WAY beyond pathetic how some will allow innocent living creatures to be experimented on FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN TO SAVE TH@ BEINGS LIFE all the while they piss and moan and stamp their feet @ the mere mention of human stem cell research.

I guess some arrogant faith following persons have no problems with living a life that's packed full of hypocrisies and lies.

it looks kinda bad and sad but sorry to say
that animals are usually used for experiments before trying it to humans.

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

Yes, and according to the book I have, you should warn them that they use piss to express extreme displeasure. So far I have had my laptop pissed on, my pillow, by bed, my shoes, etc.

Everytime it snows they (I have two of them) get pissed and piss on something I own to express their disdain for going outdoors.

I even shovel them a path to a patch of grass I shovel off. Tell your friend good luck.

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Ah, so that explains why this one pees whenever it gets put in the doggie sweater. Can't say i blame it.

I'll pass on the good luck wish!

I've always thought prison inmates should be able to volunteer for testing and in return get out early.

We'll be using animals until we find a way to clone humans in a way that allows for testing.

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Originally Posted by chubbs

Humans rule over all creatures for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Opposable Thumbs. Does NOT mean we should fuck with them doing all kinds of test and trials. I HATE animal testing and hope the board members/owners of companies that do so catch a wicked case of flesh eating virus in their crotch!

--Chubbs

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I do not really think it’s Opposable Thumbs, more our communication abilities, with out communication of knowledge we would still be running from lions today. :eek:

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I do not really think it’s Opposable Thumbs, more our communication abilities, with out communication of knowledge we would still be running from lions today. :eek:

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I would agree. In fact, the Bornean Orangutan has opposable thumbs on all four hands. Their interdigital grip gives them the ability to pick fruit...not rule over all creatures.

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

I would agree. In fact, the Bornean Orangutan has opposable thumbs on all four hands. Their interdigital grip gives them the ability to pick fruit...not rule over all creatures.

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You mean we've stopped running from lions?

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

You mean we've stopped running from lions?

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Not quite yet...but I imagine it won't be a problem much longer....

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/sci...ons/index.html

LIONS:whip:

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Originally Posted by TropixxxStudios

Not quite yet...but I imagine it won't be a problem much longer....

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/sci...ons/index.html

LIONS:whip:

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That's sad. I like Lions. They lounge all day and send their women out to kill stuff.

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Originally Posted by SPACE GLIDER

You mean we've stopped running from lions?

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Ya we no longer run we shot them, they better be the ones doing the running, personally I am not going to romp around the African bush without some big fire power. :scared:

I will say about all this as I head out to get a hamburger, is that if I will eat a cow how can get upset about the bacon I am going to have on it any more than some lab rats. We are omnivores, not herbivores until that changes not sure how strong of a stance we can take on all this one way or the other.

I doubt if I'd be alive today, if there weren't experiments done on animals. I grew up in the times when polio was a real danger, and still effecting the population. Iron lungs and death vs the life of bunnies ...

Humm...

Not a hard decision in my mind.

:bunny:

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Originally Posted by chubbs

I HATE animal testing and hope the board members/owners of companies that do so catch a wicked case of flesh eating virus in their crotch!

--Chubbs

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Would you say NO to the cures that non-human animal testing has produced?

Diabetes
Polio
AIDS

Which do YOU choose to die of?

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Originally Posted by maxpower

I will say about all this as I head out to get a hamburger, is that if I will eat a cow how can get upset about the bacon I am going to have on it any more than some lab rats. We are omnivores, not herbivores until that changes not sure how strong of a stance we can take on all this one way or the other.

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Wow - I simple had no idea that all the experiments were to see what goes best with a bacon & cheese burger.

So are you the person that's eating the animal after they've been frankensteined?

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Originally Posted by Paco

Wow - I simple had no idea that all the experiments were to see what goes best with a bacon & cheese burger.

So are you the person that's eating the animal after they've been frankensteined?

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Hell yes you got to love anything that will make a better bacon & cheese burger, even cheaper that’s the shit. (Cloned Beef) Just talking about it makes me want to go get one now, but its only 8:00 am :( What could be better on a summer afternoon, than BBQing some animal flesh outside even if you do not eat meat the smell has to drive you nuts. ;)

YEEHAW - what a perfect redneck response!

See folks, I told y'all many times that society is regressing, quickly, and ideologies a such (^) clearly show the direction of the devolving movement.

funny thing - after all the animal testing is done for each new situation, they still test it on humans very cautiously because in reality a mouse and a human don't really work the same way so no conclusions can be drawn.

and again, most current animal testing is on things we've animal tested before. amazingly enough, after torturing thousands more animals to death, the conclusions are exactly the same. yet almost all that testing could have been done on computer models and guess what - since most of these tests are old news, the computer results have the same accuracy.

and never forget, in college they do animal testing for no real reason at all. ucla used to vivisect just so students could learn to vivisect. torture for its own sake - by people who are in college to learn to save. there's something very wrong there :(

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Originally Posted by Madame0120

Would you say NO to the cures that non-human animal testing has produced?

Diabetes
Polio
AIDS

Which do YOU choose to die of?

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^^
WOW - talk about a loaded question!

Do you know what kind of results were yielded from the many experiments that occurred in Auschwitz? Tons, so I guess it WAS all worth it.

From what I know none place the life of one being over or above that of another-of course this excludes the oh-so many off the wall factions.
*doing that screaming thing while wiggling my tongue and brandishing a scimitar*

NO living creature's life is worth more than anothers!
If so; I am going to club the first baby I see (they are beyond useless to me) and use it to help save my father (many forms of cancer).
And after that, I'll club the first rich person I see over the head so to help me survive the winter by allowing me to ski everyday!

What? I am more important than he or she.

So, exactly why is it so many complain about using live &/or dead babies as test subjects?
Everybody knows they are THE best guinea pigs.

How about using clones of humans?
Of course not - that would be too cruel .. to the religious folk and their so-called god would be so upset he'd kill another of his bastard fanatical sons!

That shame thing is spreading, quickly.
I guess the archane belief that the strongest survive is returning, so let's throw out that BS PC equality idea and start slugging it out!

I've got no problem with it 'cause I know I'll be one of the last remaining beasts!