You heard it here first, folks! :)
http://avnonline.com/index.php?Prima...tent_ID=281558
Discussion? What do you folks think?
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You heard it here first, folks! :)
http://avnonline.com/index.php?Prima...tent_ID=281558
Discussion? What do you folks think?
Wanna bet? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Oh well. Can't help it if you had inside info before there was an official announcement. :)
LMAOQuote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
Regards,
Lee
I guess this means that Naked Sword will begin to benefit from all the great bareback traffic that they've been missing out on - we're still on the front page of AEBN and raking it in!
Any change in gay feeds as far as price, quality, or number?
No they wont, they arent going to carry any bareback movie titles so it would be stupid to send that type of traffic to Naked Sword.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
Regards,
Lee
I kinda figured that - don't forget, they "edited" out all of the barebacking from our first movie - go figure?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Well they have a no bareback policy, the same as we do as a company so i can understand why they would edit it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
Until you mentioned it though i didnt know they did that, im sure nobody else knew either.
But again, knowing they have a no bareback policy and sending them bareback movie titles is well, kinda strange imho. That would be like me sending you a female model looking for porn work - It just doesnt compute LOL
Regards,
Lee
Hmmm, AEBN allows BB. I wonder if that will change now that NS owns them.
yeah well - they invited us to SF to do an interview about our new bareback film company - aired the interview and ran our movie "censored" until we pulled it - that's a fact - this is after we endorsed Naked Sword, wore their t-shirts around the bars for them, etc. - I don't like their lack of style and hope that the AEBN folks inject a little class into the Naked Sword actQuote:
Originally Posted by Lee
oh yeah, and less I forget - they did invite us to add all of our titles if we changed the names from BAREBACK WHATEVER to WHATEVER, etc. and edit out all of the barebacking -
we pulled our movie from their line-up - I really hate people that use us!
That would acually be a really good thing to do from a business standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
If you have a new revenue source ready and willing to start generating income from works you have already shot, why not edit them and create new titles?
Not only would you then have an avenue to distribute the content via NakedSword but, more importantly, you could potentially have a bunch of *new* DVD titles that you could distribute to online and bricks and mortar stores that dont carry bareback titles.
Just seems like smart business to me, maximizing the revenue potential for products you already have.
Regards,
Lee
This has to be the worst kept secret. I heard it back in March at the Phoenix Forum. Thought it had already been done. I guess that was the Unofficial, Pre-Launch, Warm-Up Party Merger.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
:)
Michael
It seems like stupid business to us to CUT OUT ALL OF THE BAEBACK FUCKING in a Bareback movie - no fucking, no film! that's not maximizing anything - that's censoring a production - that goes against the basis of our film making -Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
As a pioneer in producing content you should be open to new business ideas, cutting the bareback from your titles, as i have already said, WILL give you new revenue streams plus, you can condense verious titles in to new product lines (who said they had to be 'bareback' movies, i certainly didnt) and sell those also, there is a HUGE market place for softcore gay nude content right now, as in, no sex, just naked guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
No matter how you look at it, re-using existing content is a good business model, it has worked for many, many years in the online world, affiliates dont purchase a set of content, use it on one site then buy another set and do the same thing, they use the content they purchase over and over again, ad infinitum.
Regards,
Lee
I guess that's why we'll never be "content providers" - we're just film makers at heart and our films are not to be cut up and censored - by us or any of our licenseesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Well I'll comment on this.... I think it's a very interesting development, and I have no idea of the ultimate outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Of course, this merger has been if anything the "worst kept business secret" for months. You would had to have been lost and deafened deep down in the road construction at the Gay Phoenix Forum hotel in order to miss it.
And the printed news itself leaves to an analyst many more questions than answers. Note the article's fronted statement "Terms of the deal, which was finalized today, were not disclosed."
I think the best that can be made of it is that the transaction indicates that very good money can be made with these kinds of companies. It also indicates how fast things move in our industry.
One economist famously described capitalism as a "process of creative destruction," and I think we are watching an example of such a process here.
I do significant business with Naked Sword and AEBN - and I know many of the N.S. employees. I've always admired their business model and acumen.
Frankly I have no idea what their "merger" with AEBN will ultimately mean. They are so very different companies. AEBN has looked from my viewpoint as a place where as long as the computers stay turned on, the money pours in.
SO maybe Naked Sword will receive some of that midas touch. At the same time the San Franciscan hippies will teach the North Carolina hillbillys some business basics, like branding.
Now I happen to have a good bit of "hillbilly" in my blood, mixed oddly with a gay creative arts gene. So perhaps I will relate to this newly minted entity.
I wish everyone success.
Steve
Who bought who, or who will remain the controlling entity?
Yeah, I heard about this quite awhile ago and wondered how it affected bareback. I can't imagine that AEBN is going to stop with the bareback...way too profitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
The word I get is that AEBN bought Naked Sword and that Barebacking WILL continue on AEBN.
Bill
Lee,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Not so sure I agree with you. Since our inception in 1998 we've been making bareback titles. That is our market and that is what our customers want. We have a very loyal customer base which is growing everyday. The day I produce a film with condoms.....frankly, I'll catch hell from my customers. They don't want condom films. If they did they would not be buying from us. The day I release the SECOND film with condoms....I'd be out of business.
Why should I or DeAngelo or any successful bareback film producer take the risk of losing theircurrent customer base and market share, to venture into an area that would be totally new and would force us to basically start from scratch?
Unlike DeAngelo, we are a content provider as well as a film production company. But the majority of the content we provide, as you know, is bareback. We use all aspects of a film shoot to produce income, but to get away from producing and shooting bareback would, I think, be the beginning of the end for HDK.
I guess it's like the old saying...."if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Bill
Exactly. There was talk, and, of course, everybody heard the rumors, but the deal had not been made official and announced. It's not 'news' until it's official. So you heard the rumors. We reported the news. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Thank God for responsible journalism. Nice to see someone who reports the news as opposed to creating it!Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXWriterDude
Good job Ken!
Bill
Official or not, we like the folks at AEBN and have enjoyed a tremendous relationship with them for the past 3 years -
they are agreeable to our product and have provided a fantastic source of revenue for us -
we applaud them in this deal (alleged or not) and Cam and I wish them well in this venture -
see everyone in Vegas?!?!
Bill, you just made my point perfectly, how many potential customers do you think you are losing because you arent editing and re-editing the movies you have already to take out all of the barebacking in them?Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
As you said, your existing customers want bareback, yes we agree on that, but what about the thousands of other potential customers you could get by re-editing/re-packaging your existing work and selling it as 'softcore'?
Your existing customer base wouldnt be looking for 'softcore' titles so they would never know that you had even done that, at the same time, those porn viewers who are looking for softcore, will be coming to you to buy it.
Thats the best of both worlds IMHO.
Hell, you dont even have to use the HDK brand name if you didnt want to, setup another company name and use that on the 'softcore' titles.
Regards,
Lee
Also, just to add to the discussion, this thread..
http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=20821
Can work both ways, not just about online producers not making the most of their existing content, but offline producers not making the most of their content also.
Regards,
Lee
Because, as Lee said, it would be a NEW market. If you or Tony were to do it, I definitely wouldn't do it under your existing studio names; I'd start up an entirely new studio. You could explain to your retailers/distributor that it's a "safer" line from the same studio, and clearly mark it as such so that your existing customers wouldn't be alienated.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
You would probably find that many of your bareback customers would be perfectly happy buying safer sex films; we've found that a lot of our customers buy almost exclusively bareback stuff from other studios but buy all of our titles as they come out.
In other words, we've found that at the end of the day, the presence or absence of a condom really doesn't make as much of a difference as people think; we (18 West) compete in a marketplace (twink) that has been completely overrun with bareback product and yet our sales numbers are consistently competitive with the largest bareback producers in our market, and grow every quarter.
Given a choice between shitty condom porn and bareback, many people will probably choose bareback. But given a choice between topnotch condom porn and so-so bareback, many people will choose the condom porn, because, from what we hear from the bareback buyers we talk to, the presence or absence of a condom isn't the sole deciding factor.
No one *has* to shoot bareback to be successful or competitive. It is a choice, and I admire the people like Chi Chi, Naked Sword, GayVN, and the others that have chosen to focus on safe product in spite of the economic advantages that would undoubtedly be present if they chose otherwise.
Definitely not cool that they did that without disclosing up front what they were planning to do. I can understand and respect their position, but I can also understand and respect yours; if your studio has made a name for itself as a bareback producer, and people viewing through Naked Sword get the impression that you aren't a bareback studio, it could definitely affect your market positioning and the perception your customers and potential customers will have.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
I would hope that was an oversight or somebody not thinking rather than a corporate philosophy, but who knows?
http://www.nakeddollars.com/merger_faq.aspx
Here are the facts of the merger from Naked Dollars, including commissions, payouts and deep linking issues.
I think Desslock made a good analogy about the hippies and the hillbillies! Very cute.
we don't know what they were thinking other than pulling us in as "celebs" to help them market their relatively new site and to help plug us and our new venture into the unknown world of video productionQuote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
its all history and unfortunate and very creepy but an important statement on how hypocritical the porn world is - use the "stars" to promote business and then kick em out the door after you're done with them!
In reading the FAQ following the link posted by Lavender Lounge, it is interesting to note that AEBN seemed to be seeking a guiding hand in the gay market from Nakedsword, which sort of indicates they plan to more agressively pursue that market but also that Nakedsword may have a big say in how that is developed going forward...
And then further down the FAQ under the question concerning bareback, it is explicitly stated that Nakedsword will still absolutely not carry bareback...so it remains to be seen how this attitude concerning bareback affects the Nakedsword "guidance" on developing the gay brand on AEBN.
Interesting to note that Nakedsword is abandoning the membership model...which is good for studios that have been providing them content as the previous payout model really sucked for smaller niche studios...
And it is also telling, as I have always considered Tim V at Nakedsword to have his finger on the pulse of technology, and it's relationship to the adult industry (and vice versa), and for them to abandon the model that made them what they are in favor of a VOD and download video, says that they believe, and I tend to agree, that the future is quickly upon us and the future is more streaming, move vod, more download to own, less retail and less recurring membership....
I think it's a great merger, a great synergy, with lots of potential for studios, affiliates and of course the customers.
Wow what a huge merger of 2 porn giants. I wonder if this means someday I can get some leased NakedSword feeds, that would be awesome. :)
Mark
Yes - that's the big take away from that notice - abandoning the membership model. That indicates to me that in order to pay movie studios competitively, they couldn't afford to keep things the same. That's very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by tombarr
That also completely destroys the way I have always organized my marketing between maleflixxx, naked sword and aebn. I'm now going to have to reassess these products and figure out the best way to sell them in this New World Order.
Plus - for the sake of discussion, let me inject a "Contrarian" note here:
Is it possible that VOD providers will face tougher times in the near future? Because increasingly I see that Naked Sword and others are having to compete with the actual studios whose movies they are selling. One example - Naked Sword declares their sweetheart deals to provide Falcon and Mustang movies. However, for months I have been linking potential viewers directly to Falcon's website, which I think more powerfully sells the movie via video on demand.
Now most other studios do not have the rich amount of extra complimentary content on their membership site, combined with the powerful Falcon brand - so other studios can't really trump their VOD provider..... yet. But two or three years from now - possibly.
(I pulled all my SX Video links from aebn to their new paysite a few months ago for the same reason)
Now I have seen NakedSword started addressing this competition by establishing with itself an "online sense of place." You know - with Naked Sword you were a member, so you were in the club. And if you were bored, you could go see Tim and Roma and the gang.... see what's humming on their blog, etc. AEBN has absolutely no sense of place. So I would suggest that confronting that is what may carry these companies successfully into the future.
Maleflixx also has their work cut out for them.:innocent:
Steve
I think the VOD providers are going to go through a major period of consolidation and "thinning" in the next year, probably even before the major period of consolidation and thinning happens for the DVD studios and membership sites.
The market is definitely changing rapidly. Xtube and its imitators, the explosion of VOD, and the influx of a million producers with crap product shot in their basement are all going to affect the production and distribution of adult content.
Additionally, AEBN and Maleflixxx are both desperately trying to lock up exclusive deals with studios (which, in my opinion, is a *terrible* idea, particularly with Maleflixxx) clearly because they are trying to create unique marketing opportunities for themselves.
I would not be surprised to see somebody (perhaps CCBill or Epoch) come up with an out-of-the-box, easy to implement VOD solution that webmasters can run on their own sites, because the percentages that the major players are paying out is almost to the point of robbery. Then, the existing membership models may continue, but with a pay-as-you-go model instead of a month-to-month one.
Hi Guys... I know it has been ages since I have posted, but have been very very busy... as this thread can obviously imply:-).
I wanted to offer some guidance on the issues that I am completely confident in that I have seen on this thread, mainly regarding content. Other things I am not going to touch too much on as I am not as well versed in the other areas of this deal and though I know some details...I just wish not to disclose what I know until I have tied down the facts.
The main thing is for the bareback video producers. The traffic that we are receiving for bareback products will continue to be available on the AEBN sites... including moviemonster, aebn.net, malepayperview, and every other aebn owned site that your content has been shown on. It will only not be available on the Naked Sword sites and the affiliates that plug into their sites.
As far as affiliates that are plugged into Naked Sword, this is not my area of expertise... My first suggestion would be to contact your Naked Sword affiliate representative first.
Also in regards to feeds, though I am not working directly with this project, I do know that our current feeds on AEBN will continue to be used on the AEBN sites. I will keep my ears open as to where we go with combining the AEBN feeds with the Naked Sword program.
I hope some of my words leave a lot of you guys with ease, I know I am not able to answer a lot of these questions, but hope that I was able to help the best that I can.
We are really excited about this merger and I am definitely looking forward to seeing how far we can go.
Thank you
Chris
thanks for your insight Chris - you're great!
oh, and I really love what you've done with your front page - it always bumps our numbers way up!!!
Thanks Chris for the clarification. We appreciate it and AEBN.
Bill
:) I think this will be great for both Naked Sword and AEBN. I congratulate both of them and I totally agree with Mark. I would LOVE to buy feeds from Naked Sword also! I look forward to seeing what comes in the future from this merge.
Very Cool!!
Thanx, Bill. Your thoughtful comments are very much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by hdkbill
damn NakedDollars owe me money and they are ignoring all my emails and ICQ messages.They never paid me as I wanted.
I get cheques consistently every month from Naked Sword, there must be other issues involved in your payment.
Michael