Learning The Industry Whats The Best Way?

We've all seem articles and tutorials written by people who have learnt the industry by reading and writing about it however im wondering, as a webmaster, in your opinion do you think that physical 'hands on' practical learning is needed at all these days?

It would seem to me that you can pretty much go to any resource site these days, find all the information you need in articles and message board posts and become a huge success overnight just by reading the information.

What are your thoughts on this? Does a webmaster need to put the stuff he reads or writes about in to practice or does 1+1 really equal 2?

Regards,

Lee

1+1 DOES equal 2 in my book - but having said that, most tutorials are written by people who either aren't well-grounded in what they are saying or just aren't writing it down well.

the other part of 1+1 not equalling 2 is the fact that most people take directions incredibly poorly, so those people do need to do rather than read.

i've given someple who can follow directions as written on how to get started and they all did well. i'm not the end-all be-all of webmaster knowledge, but what i do know i know from solid experience and i'm happy to share with anyone who really listens. the results were not identical but similar enough to confirm my belief that 1+1 DOES equal 2 in webmastering. and also that most people can't follow directions without adding or changing things to suit their pre-existing opinions.

tutorials and books are nice but not everyone learns/grasps "text" and/or some "instruction" requires more of a "visual" approach. (interpreted: it would be easier for me to show you how to use a camera and/or set up the perfect lighting system than for me to sit down and write a "how to photograph in 10 easy steps!" - available now at amazon.com for $49.95

sincerely ~ ..."where is it written?"...

an interesting example. i prepared for my first video shoot by reading a couple lighting tutorials, a white balance tutorial and an umbrella tutorial on a sponsor of samy's. i asked a few questions of bec (who used to work as a photographer), read my camcorder manual, bought my lighting and did the shoot. i really took those tutorials to heart and guess what - my first shoot isn't exactly steven spielberg, but the lighting is tons better than a lot of the porn out there and was better than i'd even hoped. no dark spots, no dingy yellow video - it showed natural skin tone and even lighting. nothing was overlit or particularly underlit.

GOOD tutorials made my first video a 1+1=2 situation but bec helped me realize they were good tutorials. the web is full of bad advice *LOL* so you have to research your tutorials. bec helped me there by validating part of the tutorials.

btw, i sent a couple friends to those same tutorials and they didn't get the same results. it turned out they didn't find out how to white balance in their own cameras. had they read that tutorial and used their white balance, they'd have had the same results i did. needless to say, they blame their cameras or the tutorials ;)

It's true that sex sells.... but porn sites are composed of a very intricate, and specific, formula for even the most mediocre of successes.

Something most of us have learned, no matter how specific the instructions you give others, you have to possess the knack, the flair, to make a successful site. It's like a cake recipe. You could follow the directions in a cookbook to a T and still not get the perfect recipe.

The best way to learn the industry is to go under someones wing who has experience, and SUCCESS, in the industry and is willing to go through all the miniscule details with you. I define success as making over $100k a year on one or two sites combined, minimally. $0.02

While info exchange is very important, I do not believe ANYONE can be handed the proverbial Gold Key. Most webmaster have a habit of burring bridges behind them, the same path will only get you so far.

But to answer the question I think the best way to learn most things is by doing it. You could go to school for 10 years to learn how to swim, but if you’ve never gotten in the water you still cant swim yet.

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Originally Posted by maxpower

While info exchange is very important, I do not believe ANYONE can be handed the proverbial Gold Key. Most webmaster have a habit of burring bridges behind them, the same path will only get you so far.

But to answer the question I think the best way to learn most things is by doing it. You could go to school for 10 years to learn how to swim, but if you’ve never gotten in the water you still cant swim yet.

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Very wise Max except for the fact that trial and error in this business is a matter of months and years, compaired to a mentorship.

SEO alone is a 6 month or so learning curve based on the search engine updates.. and SEO is only one small aspect of a successful site.

No matter what business you're in you will never make all the people happy all the time, that's a given. I'm not sure what you mean by "burring bridges" but I assume that has something to do with your own business practices, which, undoubtedly, are not the norm in our industry ;)

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Very wise Max except for the fact that trial and error in this business is a matter of months and years, compaired to a mentorship.

SEO alone is a 6 month or so learning curve based on the search engine updates.. and SEO is only one small aspect of a successful site.

No matter what business you're in you will never make all the people happy all the time, that's a given. I'm not sure what you mean by "burring bridges" but I assume that has something to do with your own business practices, which, undoubtedly, are not the norm in our industry ;)

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You dont think your mentor who ever you pick is not using the trial and error methods to this day? I could also add science, and medicine both credit trial and error methods today for (I really hate to say All about anything) Most of their advancements. :bunny:

Ya I am a bit of an unorthodox bloke, you could say I guess. ;)

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Originally Posted by maxpower

You dont think your mentor who ever you pick is not using the trial and error methods to this day? I could also add science, and medicine both credit trial and error methods today for (I really hate to say All about anything) Most of their advancements. :bunny:

Ya I am a bit of an unorthodox bloke, you could say I guess. ;)

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You're green, not unorhtodox.

Tweaking is much more different then trial and error.

You, being new and unguided (assumption) learn the hard and long way vs. the mentor route that would take you right to the formula leaving you to only have to tweak your success. :pimp:

You would not work well with a mentor. You would take everything you could then stab them in the back, it's just the way you work. You have no loyalty to anyone who does anyting for you, no matter who they are, or how hard they try.

Your many conflicts on this board, as well as asking for advice from everyone that you end up ignoring, shows that you prefer the long hard, rocky route in life, and that's ok. To each their own. No dramas, just an observation

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Originally Posted by Squirt

You're green, not unorhtodox.

Tweaking is much more different then trial and error.

You, being new and unguided (assumption) learn the hard and long way vs. the mentor route that would take you right to the formula leaving you to only have to tweak your success. :pimp:

You would not work well with a mentor. You would take everything you could then stab them in the back, it's just the way you work. You have no loyalty to anyone who does anyting for you, no matter who they are, or how hard they try.

Your many conflicts on this board, as well as asking for advice from everyone that you end up ignoring, shows that you prefer the long hard, rocky route in life, and that's ok. To each their own. No dramas, just an observation

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What the Hell are you talking about?:loser: (tweak your success) that’s really funny man. Pixie dust is hard to find now days you know man

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Originally Posted by Squirt

You would take everything you could then stab them in the back, it's just the way you work.

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I gotta jump to Seans defense here and say that statement, at this moment in time has no merrit to it whatsoever, Sean has done nothing that i can see since being registered here that would make me (or could make you) think he would stab someone in the back.

Sure he's an idiot and doesnt listen to some of the best advice people have given him but thats about all he could be accused of imho.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

I gotta jump to Seans defense here and say that statement, at this moment in time has no merrit to it whatsoever, Sean has done nothing that i can see since being registered here that would make me (or could make you) think he would stab someone in the back.

Sure he's an idiot and doesnt listen to some of the best advice people have given him but thats about all he could be accused of imho.

Regards,

Lee

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Thanks I guess man, but really I have held off doing things because I wanted to offer the best I can for everyone. Not sure how I could stab someone in the back to start with, but if you can find me a knife then stand at the right angle I will give it a shot. :shitpoke:

i also haven't seen max stab anyone in the back. he's not exactly his own best friend when it comes to business relationships but that's a different issue. his pm's to me lately have been courteous and show he's sometimes listening. sure, he has to bust out sometimes and show us the old ignorant and pointlessly rude max, but these periods are getting shorter.

now if only we could convince him to use spell check ;)

At one of the Xbiz seminars last week an audience member asked if there are any books out along the lines of "Porn Business For Dummies".

Everyone laughed, but I think a lot of people thought to themselves, "I should write that book!"

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Originally Posted by Lee

Sure he's an idiot and doesnt listen to some of the best advice people have given him but thats about all he could be accused of imho.

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Yeah that's my point

It's no big deal, just an observation. No dramas

Usually people who ask for advice, then don't follow any of it, from anyone, are the same people that will turn on you in a second if it will benefit them making a dollar or two. ;)

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Originally Posted by basschick

i also haven't seen max stab anyone in the back. he's not exactly his own best friend when it comes to business relationships but that's a different issue. his pm's to me lately have been courteous and show he's sometimes listening. sure, he has to bust out sometimes and show us the old ignorant and pointlessly rude max, but these periods are getting shorter.

now if only we could convince him to use spell check ;)

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Thax Bass, I really do try to take in everything, even if sometimes it might not show. Your help has always been invaluable to me, and regardless of my attitude of sometimes wanting to learn the hard way your opinion has always served as the best starting point I can find.

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Originally Posted by LavenderLounge

At one of the Xbiz seminars last week an audience member asked if there are any books out along the lines of "Porn Business For Dummies".

Everyone laughed, but I think a lot of people thought to themselves, "I should write that book!"

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And that brings to light a good point

There is no place to learn this business. You either have to depend on instinct via trial and error or mentoring / teaming up with others.

To date I haven't seen any success stories of a single person doing everything on their own with no input from anyone and relying only on trial and error. Plain logic dictates that anyone reading and posting on these boards is relying on a form of mentoring to foster their success ;)

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Originally Posted by basschick

.... he's not exactly his own best friend when it comes to business relationships but that's a different issue. his pm's to me lately have been courteous and show he's sometimes listening. sure, he has to bust out sometimes and show us the old ignorant and pointlessly rude max, but these periods are getting shorter.

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Yes exactly.. he's learned to modify his behavior to get what he wants. The core values that make up his character still remain. He is no sith, yet he's far from even the least acquiescent padawan :smoke:

I did kind of stab one person in the back and that was Luke from chilihost. Around when I first joined I said I would create some feeder sites for him to help promote his service, and after he got like 50 sets ready I was in the middle of doing something else so I could not do them for him. :embarassed:

I still feel bad about this 1 ½ years later, but I also never agreed to create anything else that I was not 100% sure I had time to do.

Trial & Error. There's no other way, for Control Freeks like us.

Trial and error has cost me almost $50k and nearly 3 years of what I consider wasted time. Had I had a good mentor from the start, I'd of spent much less money and learned just as much, probably more than I did doing it "the hard way". Oh well, live and learn.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expection different results. I guess I was temporarily insane.

Needless to say I have started to ask for a lot more advice and am taking the advice I get to heart. Man I wish I'd of known there were people like Basschick when I started. Or even just this board. :(

Hope this helps. --Chubbs

I want to be clear .. yes we've done lots of trial and error, but it wasn't flying in the wind. I spent more than 6 months doing basic research, had a business plan, a geek and some working capitol, before we ever launched the first site.

After that, it is really just other ppls opinions.

I don't think 1+1 always = 2, in other words, I don't think there's a formula that'll work every time if you follow it. I don't believe you say, "Do your TGP gallery exactly like this and it'll make money."

For instance, basschick does a killer TGP gallery and it sells buckets. You copy the template and change the background and text colour add your own content, and it tanks. Was it the colour that tanked or was it content that tanked or was it that content with that colour that tanked?

When I was with my last employer I told a guy exactly how to make a good AVS gallery. He followed my instructions to a tee -- everything I did to make lots of money -- and he didn't make a dime. So maybe the AVS didn't have a lot of traffic that liked black guys or maybe his content was over-exposed, or maybe I was lucky and don't really know what I'm talking about, who knows.

I tried two hubs with UGAS and couldn't make a penny. Another webmaster who makes galleries that aren't as nice looking as mine makes a lot of money, using sponsor content a lot of times, too.

I think there are some basic points that are good to learn from, but essentially I think you have to get in there and play around. You need to see what works with your particular traffic base. Just because something works with bear traffic doesn't mean it'll work with twink traffic.

You can tell someone to submit to these six link lists and they'll get buckets of traffic, but if they submit on the wrong day, at the wrong time, or if Anna Nicole Smith dies on the day their galleries show up, they won't get any traffic.

Cheers
Michael

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

I don't think 1+1 always = 2, in other words, I don't think there's a formula that'll work every time if you follow it. ...
Cheers
Michael

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I'll "piggy"back off Michael's comment with one other point. The business does change quickly and often in my estimation. What's hot one month may be slow a few months from now. Trying things out and measuring results is necessary.