So, if you were talking to someone who was just getting into the industry, do you think starting a paysite would be a good first step?
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So, if you were talking to someone who was just getting into the industry, do you think starting a paysite would be a good first step?
I honestly would start off a free site and join different affiliate programs then move on to making a paysite. That's just me though, what do you think? :bandana:
Most will say it is not the best first step, however for us, it fit our business plan. We have always focused on networking through trade events and believe that a paysite allows for smoother entrance into the industry.
The most common reasons for failure within the first year seem to be the lack of computer skills to manage the updates, hosting and 50 other things you have to know just to maintain. I bet most newbees would go pale if they peeked at how much we have invested in software and books alone.
Our first site, a turn-key was our test-bench and Leggo box, and our start up monies, our education. We have seen many of the sites started when we did, gone or bought up.
If your long term plans, include a year or two of learning a VERY convuluded business and lots of trail and error, you just might be a smut peddler. :glasses:
For new folks who can't commit 14 hour days or the sometimes scary out lay of funds .. start with a blog .. build a network of honest and helpful folks, by being honest and helpful. Really look at where your skills and talents fit in what part of the industry.
Don't know what "put to your server means" and you don't have a geek on hand? Then it might be the right time to take a few continuing Ed courses, so you can have the knowledge you should have, to keep control of what you have and will continue to work- so hard for.
Now you might be ready to learn traffic and implimenting affilate programs. Personally I think anyone is NUTs to enter the adult industry, and unless they are ready for the long-haul, should do anything else.
no, it isn't. and if they did so, i'd STRONGLY STRONGLY recommend they hire a consultant who they research the hell out of first to manage the project and do some mentoring so after the site was up, they know why certain things were done - probably the opposite of what they would do on their own.
i have watched people who felt they understood porn and the industry well enough to a start paysite or before they were ready. i've seen many spend over $25,000, a bunch spend over $50,000 and a couple spend over $100,000 before they admitted they were failing and didn't have the experience and the knowledge to pull their sites together. i worked for these people as a consultant and it was amazing but often EVERYTHING they were doing was wrong. man, could i tell you stories!
Madame,
To be fair with your comments though, a lot of what you are 'actually' involved with in running your site is handled via Badpuppy so in that sense, you arent really running a paysite, at least not in its totality as you dont have to worry about processing, gaining new affiliates, traffic, retention, etc not trying to just dismiss you or your site BTW.
That being said, there are also people in the industry and, on GWW right now who i WOULD expect to have their own paysites that dont which is something i dont understand given that the amount of work to actually run a site, once you have the basics and behind the scenes stuff down is minimal.
I beleive, as do a lot of other people, that marketing is one of the most vital parts of working in the adult industry, if you cant sell the surfer, then you have no chance of running a successfull site, to some this ability comes naturally, to others, no matter how hard they try, they cant do this.
Therefore in my mind, it stands to reason that the first thing a new webmaster should learn is marketing, not just the art of marketing but practical market techniques used in the adult industry, free sites, tgp galleries, aen sites, the hardest type of things to market, then once they have their knowledge, move on to paysites, blogs, reviews and all that other funky stuff.
Regards,
Lee
Start with AVS sites and build quality, not quantity... make them 'mini-paysites' and develop a dense and sticky hub site (or multiple niched hubs) to capture and keep traffic. Once you've mastered that, and it may take years, you should have the skill necessary to run a great paysite.
AJ and I have said many times if we knew everything we know now, we would probably have started in traffic.
You don't have to mess with content, cranky models, card fraud, password hacking, or any of that. Granted, you still, for a successful traffic biz, have to do very regular updates and constant marketing, but I'd choose traffic any day... if demand in the marketplace suddenly changes, you can change course nearly instantly and start promoting different sites.
The other thing I tell people all the time is... while I think you can still be successful with a new paysite, I do think it's a lot harder than even 2 years ago. And I think we will continue to see consolidation, both among affiliate programs and traffic sources, in coming years, so it will most likely get increasingly harder for new entrants to become large programs, at least to do so quickly.
I would have to say I would start with a free site and explore everything that is out there. This will give you a chance to submit your new site to all the search engines and get traffic coming to your site. You can get content from several affiliate programs that offer videos and images that you can use on your free site. You can have a section for that as long as you link back to the affiliate program that is giving you the content. I would also venture into VOD and get some links up for that to pull some extra rev in. I think a site like Juicygoo is a great example of how to make money off of a free site without having to deal with membership fees. Once you get the hang of it and you have income coming in from all the affiliate programs that you are promoting you can think about starting a paysite. That's just my thoughts :)
I would say avoid paysites for newbies. Ive tried it and failed and spent money doing it. Do what im doing now. Learn to sell sponsors. If you cant sell sponsors you cant sell your own site.
Id say automate! But do it smartly. You can build freesites with a script and get away with it IF you have a ton of templates and keep adding new ones. Ive recently learn this the hard way.
Id say also stop and review your business model reguarly. Every time i do this i make more money.
Right now ive learnt that using the same template is piss poor so next week when im off work ill spend time designing as many templates as i can. Newbies have to stop and be critical as often as they can imo.
On the boards, id say dont defend anyone. The people who are attacking those that you are defending will allways turn on you. Also remember that there are a few complete pricks on every board. Dont fight them, ignore what they say and remember it costs so much to sue that only the lawyers get rich, so let them say what they like, and dont get wound up by it.
I really do love this post :heartu:Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
advice to a newbie, don't get into this business unless you are willing to work your ass off for the first few years and not make much money :broccoli:
Tell them to run away... but in all seriousness, if they don't have the skills and knowledge, I just don't see them learning it by starting with a paysite. Personally I believe it is something they need to work up, and learn.
my pennies worth
Lot of realistic replies in here so far. I have to concur that starting out with a paysite isn't a good idea, as tempting as it may be to "just go for the big bucks". There's too many who try it without a solid understanding of marketing and without knowing how sites get promoted via freesites, avs sites, tgps, blogs, hubs and so on.
It also helps if they have basic web skills. I've done sites for people that didn't (and still don't) know how to ftp to their domain. And it sure doesn't hurt to have some understanding of creating the html pages and/or minimal graphics.
Halleluiah! People think it's as easy as throwing up a few photos on a site and raking in the bucks. It's a lot more work. I think a paysite could work if you really commit to it, but there are many easier ways to cut your teeth and learn by doing than to jump right into a paysite. But there have been people who have never taken a piano lesson and sat down to play like they've done it all their lives. So there's an exception to every rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilihost
my advice to newbs - go to this board, adx and awi and read, read, read. then go to cozy and learn, learn, learn. this should take no less than 2 weeks or you're not going deep enough.
as you read, note all the most interesting and informative posts and tutorials and go back and read them again after a few days off to let everything sort of settle in your brain.
now you're ready to ask some questions and begin to decide where to start - link list, free site, link dump, tgp, avs site.
one more piece of advice - don't think that your mainstream or business experience has you ready to do anything in adult. some very successful mainstream designers who work for large corporations failed in adult. it's very much its own thing, so speak softly and you'll make friends who can really help you out.
I'd suggest that they start off free.
To be fair with your comments though, a lot of what you are 'actually' involved with in running your site is handled via Badpuppy so in that sense, you arent really running a paysite, at least not in its totality as you dont have to worry about processing, gaining new affiliates, traffic, retention, etc not trying to just dismiss you or your site BTW.
But you just did ..
But I'm not surprised
BP doesn't buy my content, do out updates 3-4X a month. They did not, design or code or sites, nor did they build our reputation as honest business people. We run our own traffic, along with BP's - which is why Mega Hung made the Top 50 this month.
BP didn't build our 4 traffic hubs that promote more than 50 cash programs, including some of yours. Nor did they develope my PR4 blog, mianstream site, or PSO biz.
Oh and BTW ..
we own 3 sites on BadPuppy :fuckyou:
Really, the only difference between running a paysite and a Badpuupy or Movie AEN site is dealing directly with affiliates and the credit card processing. There is one MASSIVE advantage to running sites within a network of sites like Madame does... the network itself. It is a great help in retaining members because of all of the other content available to members in the other sites on the network.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame0120
Being part of a network may also allow you to earn more money than a paysite especially if you have a smaller site. Sure you have to revshare with Badpuppy or the AEN but you also get to charge more because of the added value of the network itself. And also, CCbill's and Epoch's processing fees can really cut into your profits.
70% of $24.95= $17.47 (Badpuppy)
$19.95 less 13.5% CC processing fees= $17.26 (Paysite)
Plus dealing with customers, dealing with password sharing, dealing with scripting, hosting, upsells, members area layout, BadPuppy does all of that for Madame but, she really does have it much better than your average paysite owner by being in the BadPuppy network, and you are right, she can spend more time generating traffic something that regular paysite owners dont have the luxury of doing once they actually own several sites because of all the additional work involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
That was my point, i wasnt trying to belittle Madame at all, just trying to point out that running her paysites on BadPuppy, is a lot different to running paysites that arent on the BP network.
Regards,
Lee
Curious if anyone has an action plan or executive plan for post pay site launch:
Here is what we've been upto - curious what examples you guys might have:
1. Launch Pay site (jizz4u.com is example) with weekly update schedule.
2. Launch Affiliate system (jizzbucks.com)
3. Install various user analytics software (Google Analytics or other)
4. Develop and execute traffic building plan
- build and implement sister related traffic network (drdicksexadvice.com and other related blog sites.
- Submit site to X number of relevant review sites
- Foster affiliate relationships with other webmasters
- Determine appropriate TGB, FGB strategies
- Seed Video Sharing sites with free trailers (pornotube, xtube.com)
- Seed TGBs
- Seed all traffic sites with content
- Implement SEO strategies
Repeat
Any ideas on what we are missing? What else is recommended?
Regards,
Chris
I think you forgot Praying, Selling your Sole to the Devil, and Chaining yourself to your PC for the next 2-3 years, and Sacrificing a virgin pig while bathed in the light of the first full moon of the year would not hurt too :jasun:Quote:
Originally Posted by aedeas
it leaves out the details. for example, the right tour and text makes much better sales than the wrong one. the join page alone can make a 10% or better difference in sales. deciding on quality and size of vids and pics, what to offer affiliates to make them want to join and so on is a lot harder than deciding on the stuff listed here. also deciding which cms to use, whether to pay per sale or go revshare and all these other things can make a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aedeas
as you all may or may not know, my little brother is soon launching his own site.
He's never done a pay site before, but he's worked in the industry for a while and knows what he's doing.
Besides, his big brother is a GENIUS.
Generally, I tell people to start doing free sites and affilate traffic, but with the connections and knowledge that he's got, I think he's going to do quite well for himself.
I wish him luck, but come on man I don’t care how smart, how long they might have worked around the industry, or what connections they think they have. This is NOT a turn key operation, and starting with a members site is a disaster wating to happen, unless your a really good photographer with a huge stable of models, and content you have already shot. This has to be one of the worlds worst ideas in fact, maybe if you want to carry him it could work out, but really man............................................... ....... :rain:
Well, his site is going to be a lot better than that mess you refuse to show us.
I'll get more into the specifics of what he's doing on his site, but it's not going to be very conventional at all. It's an idea that I think is brilliant, and we're working together to get the content ready for the launch.
Ya as long as your “working together” I am sure it has a chance of turning out ok, but I have to wonder what will happen when the REAL work hits home? Its fun to play around and shot off ideas, but a persons ability to really do the ungodly amount of work day in and day out for little or no money for months and possibly years is not something I am going to bet on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasun
But hey I am sure You can take him under your wing and it will all be ok for HIM.
Just sounds allot like nepotism too me, but I don’t really know for sure. I guess we will have to see in a year how it worked out.
Thanks for some good replies and some off topics ones.
I've taken the liberty to start updating the list of projects required.
I'd love if we could all work together on drafting a kind of guidebook for online pay sites - Feel free to add guidelines, activities etc to the list.
Pre-Launch Activities:
- Determine Overall Goals
Determine Route of Goal
- Route #1 - Build Traffic Generation Business
> Options Include:
1. Launch Pay site (jizz4u.com is example) with weekly update schedule.
2. Launch Affiliate system (jizzbucks.com)
3. Install various user analytics software (Google Analytics or other)
4. Develop and execute traffic building plan
- build and implement sister related traffic network (drdicksexadvice.com and other related blog sites.
- Submit site to X number of relevant review sites
- Foster affiliate relationships with other webmasters
- Determine appropriate TGB, FGB strategies
- Seed Video Sharing sites with free trailers (pornotube, xtube.com)
- Seed TGBs
- Seed all traffic sites with content
- Implement SEO strategies
Repeat
Thanks for some good replies and some off topics ones.
I've taken the liberty to start updating the list of projects required.
I'd love if we could all work together on drafting a kind of guidebook for online pay sites - Feel free to add guidelines, activities etc to the list.
Pre-Launch Activities:
- Determine Overall Goals
Determine Route(s) to engage in
- Route #1 - Build Traffic Generation Business
> Options Include:
> TGBS, FGBS, Review sites, directories, blogs, etc
- Route #2 - Build Traditional Pay Site Model
- Route #3 - Content Producer
Strategies?
FILL IN HERE?
1. Source Affiliate Programs
2. ????
Pre Launch:
- Determine Content Needs
- Determine or Build CMS System (Blackbox, etc)
- Populate Initial Content
- Set Up Payment Processing etc.
Post Launch
1. Launch Pay site (jizz4u.com is example) with weekly update schedule.
2. Launch Affiliate system (jizzbucks.com)
3. Install various user analytics software (Google Analytics or other)
4. Develop and execute traffic building plan
- build and implement sister related traffic network (drdicksexadvice.com and other related blog sites.
- Submit site to X number of relevant review sites
- Foster affiliate relationships with other webmasters
- Determine appropriate TGB, FGB strategies
- Seed Video Sharing sites with free trailers (pornotube, xtube.com)
- Seed TGBs
- Seed all traffic sites with content
- Implement SEO strategies
Repeat
5. Scream
Thoughts?
i'm reading all the posts with great interest. especially my new partner's posts — isn't he a treasure? ;-)
i'm always amazed to find that no one ever mentions the dreaded MC words...moral compass.
my counsel to anyone considering getting into this exciting business, in any way, shape or form — from modeling to buying content — is to have a good sense of self. have a firm grasp your boundries. the seduction of the almighty dollar will and does pull at us all all the time. if there's gonna be staying power in your presence in the biz, or if you want to be able to look yourself in the mirror in the morning, have some ethical grounding.
of course, i'd offer the same advice to anyone getting into any business.
dd
Like everyone else, I'd recommend they start off with AVS, free sites, TGP galleries, even blogs or link lists to get a sense what sells, what they're capable of selling, and how traffic works. It'll be good research and when they're ready to start a paysite, they'll have an established network that can send that site traffic.
Cheers
Michael