How would YOU feel if ....

You had a paysite with 250 to 300 models on...

In your office you had, correctly filed for 2257, colour scans of IDs and model release forms for all the models on your site....


You apply for a billing company, of which you have done many times before with very little trouble, but THIS TIME ...


Their compliance department asks for copies of EVERY SINGLE ID and Release form, which, your going to have to scan, upload, resize, and deliver ..

Over 600 ITEMS!
Say bye bye to a few days.
....


Would you be pissed, and dump that biller before you get started and go to a biller you already work with, who have 99% of the content already approved on running sites.

OR

Would you just do ask they ask and blow away a few days that could be spent doing something constructive?

Id want to know who the billing company was and what the site url was :)

Regards,

Lee

I will tell you, if you tell me what u would do lee :glasses:

all il say is "about to run back to CCBILL"

Oh and il say, some things ARE to good to be true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samebb

I will tell you, if you tell me what u would do lee :glasses:

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Well it would depend on WHO the processor was, which would dictate what i would do.

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

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all il say is "about to run back to CCBILL"

Oh and il say, some things ARE to good to be true.

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So its Epoch or Verotel giving you problems?

Which is it so others know not to bother :)

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

Well it would depend on WHO the processor was, which would dictate what i would do.

Regards,

Lee

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Well on a new project, i had the choice of CCBILL (who i have used for a long time with no probs) and EPOCH, with all the FREEBEES and great new features.

I went with Epoch, but 20 minutes ago, im starting to think "im such an idiot, why not stick with a company i know can cater for my needs, without wanting me to perform crazy, time-wasting tasks", Free MPA3 maybe, but when you have to know away days and days of worktime, that free-ness starts to become an expense because of time that could have been far more constructivly used.

Epoch has been really strick latley...I think it's just the way of the times.

Billing companies are not letting thing slip through the cracks anymore...It seems they hold all they keys...
I've been delayed and delayed by Epoch with my new sites, and it's getting mighty frustrating...They have all these new policies and rules now if you want to do business with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samebb

Well on a new project, i had the choice of CCBILL (who i have used for a long time with no probs) and EPOCH, with all the FREEBEES and great new features.

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Well if you go with CCBill again you'll be able to get a totally different main account and not have to pay Visa fees again, whilst with Epoch, you are going to get hit with another $750.

Regards,

Lee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lee

Well if you go with CCBill again you'll be able to get a totally different main account and not have to pay Visa fees again, whilst with Epoch, you are going to get hit with another $750.

Regards,

Lee

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I didnt have to have to pay $750, im based in the EU!

did you talk to a rep about why they need them? i've always found epoch to be extremely helpful and both rand and frank are very available to answer questions or help straighten out issues.

and keep in mind that ccbill is also getting more strict - remember the thread where they are not allowing certain bonus sites any longer? it's more about visa than about the processor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by D-Rock

Epoch has been really strick latley...I think it's just the way of the times.

Billing companies are not letting thing slip through the cracks anymore...It seems they hold all they keys...
I've been delayed and delayed by Epoch with my new sites, and it's getting mighty frustrating...They have all these new policies and rules now if you want to do business with them.

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I compleatly understand the part about slipping through the cracks. I for one like the fact that billing companies are becoming more vigulant!

But asking companies to jump through stupidly high hoops is just pissing me off!
Its not like im setting up Mike18.com !! Most of these models are 21-23

The part of this that REALLY pisses me off, and it will irritate a few of you i can bet with me saying this,

Is the fact that Non-US webmasters are upheld to laws not of their own.

Yes, i keep releases and IDs, because i i want to know im not breaking any laws, piece of mind, but the fact is laws do not require me to.

I REALLY would not mind at all, if like on most twink sites, a biller said

"this model and this model look borderline, can you please mail us their IDs so we can confirm they are of legal age". I would jump on it straight away and have them the IDs in a matter of minutes.

But the fact im being pressured to give over release forms and IDs of ALL models, to comply by laws that are not my own, is crazy in my eyes.

Yes, i know the company in question are based in the US, and have to watch their own back, and keep visa happy, but it STILL seems crazy to me.

Why are CCBILL so much easier to work with?

sounds like the problem might be an overzealous newcomer to the compliance department. or else perhaps visa made the request through epoch.

sam, i have found epoch very easy to work with. when i have a problem, it's easy to communicate with them and get the issues dealt with. have you tried talking to rand about this?

This has only happened in the last couple of hours, and i know i have to pass their compliance before visa or anyone else, this is where its stuck. The site went into compliance department a couple of hours ago.

Luckily i have managed to find a LOT of original IDs of the models and post them up for compliance to look at. About 50% of them.

Im hoping this will be enough, and i really cannot be bothered to waste days scanning, not to mention the fact i dont even know if the scanner works anymore, iv had no use for it for a LONG time.

I would contact them. The free thing is quite good after all! I wouldnt piss arround following through this request unless it came from visa. I would give them any id they ask for, if they state which models are a problem.

Sam, you will know when you talk to them if they are resolute on this. If they are id stick with ccbill as will they do this evertime you update the tour?

Well i have no provided them with IDs for 2/3'd of the models on the site, which also covers ALL the models on the tour pages, and all of the photoset models on the site. The ones missing are for a number of the videos, where in my opinion the models all look way older then me, and im 20!

We will see what happens when i get a reply from their compliance department. I will give them any other IDs they request for a model they see a problem with, but i dont have the time to spend 48 hours behind a scanner, i just have WAY to much going on at the moment, including personal stuff such as moving!

to think in less than 48 hours i could be up with CCBILL with no problems, i will take that route is they push this any further and i cant find a compromise with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samebb

The part of this that REALLY pisses me off, and it will irritate a few of you i can bet with me saying this, Is the fact that Non-US webmasters are upheld to laws not of their own.

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I have not read the forums for a few days, and this was the first.

Bottom line, at this time, most porn income is generated via the USA. The credit card industry is now similar to the "world bank" but still rooted in the USA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samebb

... to think in less than 48 hours i could be up with CCBILL with no problems, i will take that route is they push this any further and i cant find a compromise with them.

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Rest assured, until a new European internet banking solution becames viable worldwide, you are stuck with USA dominance of the market and it's "wierd" conditions.

And as was written, some processors like CCBILL are knowledgeable of the gay industry, when others suddenly wanting gay bucks decline.

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Originally Posted by wnc

And as was written, some processors like CCBILL are knowledgeable of the gay industry, when others suddenly wanting gay bucks decline.

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So true. My rep told me i got the member of the compliance team that was the most "gay friendly".

I dread to wish what would be happening if i got one that wasnt. "We cant approve your site as its to GAY" ?

lol

oh, PUH-LEEZE!

epoch has always been gay friendly - i've worked with them on and off. they were there for our first attempts at gay paysites - around 1998 - and they are there today. they've always been there for gay events, have been very supportive and cool in every way. rand from epoch has been a member of this board for 3 years, btw - not exactly brand new to the gay scene or this board.

sam, i've had plenty of problems over the years with ccbill AND epoch because in real life, things go wrong. but these 2 companies have been outstanding in getting issues most issues resolved quickly. you haven't tried to talk to anyone else there yet, so you have no idea how this will end up.

That is pretty crazy I could not imagine having to send them 600 model releases and id's. I know the main billing companies are definetly a lot more picky then they used to be. Now they check whois info to make sure it matches your visa registration, they check all outgoing links etc but what they are asking from you is pretty crazy.

Mark

At least they are letting you offer ID’s in the first palace, and did not tell you to take your documents and fuck off. Bass is right its sometime comes down to some new guy that has been given to much power for their pay grade.

From past problems, I would advice creating the shortest, blandest, with oldest looking models possible in the tour you offer for review. I would also only offer like 25% of the content in the site when first asking for approval. Not that I have underage guys or am suggesting you are doing anything illegal, but the sad fact is these bank guys should not be making content decisions. You basically have to treat them like children and just lie to them to insure your legal sites have a chance of approval.

I'd go with a biller I work with and regard with some degree of trust.

Sam - Unless I missed it I didn't see your site mentioned in this thread.

I saw your site for the first time this morning (before I knew about this thread) and the first thing I said (and TRUST ME I've seen a lot of sites) was "Wow! These models look really young").

That being said, if "I" have that reaction I can guarantee that Visa compliance will. Epoch has a much better chance of getting your site approved quickly if we have the information we need to answer their questions. We work with them on a daily basis and we know what they are going to be looking for.

A billing company provides a service and part of that service is to protect your interests. And yes, our interests as well. Compliance is doing their "due diligence". Everyone who's seen your site has had the same reaction.

We (and I personally) have extended every ounce of support to you. We are not the Internet police and we have no interest in causing anyone to "jump through hoops". Helping you get approved with as little friction as possible is the entire goal. And making sure our assets and yours are protected is worth the effort.

I'm available to you for any questions you have as is Frank, tech support, compliance, risk management, etc...

You have a lot of people working for you.

Thanks Rand.

Yeah spoken to Frank a few minutes ago.

This whole Rant isnt really anything again you guys at Epoch, its more about my personal stance on US laws being enforced on international webmasters. I dont really have a problem abiding by them, because i want to suceed in this business and i take it as one of the requirements.

What i am wondering is, when is this going to clash with other laws? Its only a matter of time! So many countries are working my make the internet safer for their citizens, which is something i also support.

I wonder what will happen though, when say Canada, or the UK, impliment their own laws, that physically prevent or clash with US? Interesting...

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Anyway, Im still waiting to hear from compliance. I guess they have only had 24 hours, so no rush really. I guess a few of the models do look under 20, but then again they are over 18.... Seems even if a model has fuzzy haired legs, a 9inch dick, pit hair and stubble, as soon as their skin colour varies from "white", years must drop off them.... All i can say is thank god i dont im not working with Asian twinks!

IDs for ALL the models featured on the tour pages, and about 70% of the models inside the members area have been provided to compliance, so id be amazed if their was a problem now. Id be upset to, the new MPA3 admin area of Epochs site is awesome, im so excited to get going!

Anyway thanks for the reply Rand. Was cool to hear i was a topic of conversation in your company meeting :square: *im famious*!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by samebb

What i am wondering is, when is this going to clash with other laws? Its only a matter of time! So many countries are working my make the internet safer for their citizens, which is something i also support.

I wonder what will happen though, when say Canada, or the UK, impliment their own laws, that physically prevent or clash with US? Interesting...

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What is going to happen you can already observe in the travel industry. The US are asking for personal information about people traveling to the US which are protected under European laws. According to laws of the European Union it's clearly illegal to pass on some of these personal information.

However, the information are given anyway because the US simply threatened to ban airlines from flying to the US if they don't supply the data. As you can see from this example business is more important than laws nowadays. So my guess is that all the laws which are different to the US and which might disturb business activities will either be ignored with approval from the highest courts or simply changed to 'US standards' by the legislative. You can observe this happening in some of the member states of the EU already.

On a personal note I wouldn't jump through every hoop for a few freebies. There is a bottom line and there is only so much I will take.

To be fair to Epoch (who is NOT on my "happy people" list), one of our sites passed Epoch compliance, but then Visa, and then separately, the processing bank each wanted to see IDs on a couple of our models.

We provided the IDs and the sites were fully approved within 24 hours.

As far as the efficiency and cooperation of their compliance people, they are topnotch.

As far as their handling of the current issues surrounding the event they sponsored, used to kill GPF, and shut out CCBill, and their complete silence on the issue, they are far from the top in my book.

Well here is an update.

Gave ALL the IDs over,

Now they want all my model releases?
I will not waist the hours and hours scanning pages they dont even NEED.
They are suppost to be compeating with CCBILL, but they really are failing badly.

I am already almost compleate signing up with CCBILL (again).

Seems Epoch grabbed my eye from ccbill with their new stuff, but they really need to look at their way of doing things.

Correct me if im wrong, but 2257 does not include model releases as a form of documentation to prove a models age? or am i wrong ?

I think Epoch might have been asked for a model release for one or two of our models, I can't remember.

You are correct that nothing in 2257 makes any reference to model releases. They are required only for your own records, to prove you have the right to use the images in case the model tries to claim you don't.

My guess is they are just trying to verify the date of production, and unfortunately the model releases are the only way to do that, but an unscrupulous producer could easily fake the production dates, so what's the point.

If this is Epoch making the request, I'm sure they are just doing so in anticipation of what Visa or their acquiring bank might require. I can't imagine they would do this if they weren't relatively confident it was needed... it's certainly extra work for them.

However... plenty of reasons to go with CCBill at this point in time :)

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

However... plenty of reasons to go with CCBill at this point in time :)

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Agreed.

Within 5 hours of initial contact, I have just corrected the 1 compliance issue with CCBILL (a mistake on my join page), sent the email back, and i guess i will be live very shortly. If they do it within 6 hours i myself will hand them a?.. Biscuit! Will be impressive...

So, story all all is..

IF you dont want a week of fucking about, before being told that you have to spend a further 2 days stuck behind a scanner, providing compleatly pointless documents to a biller...

And you would RATHER be setup inside a day (If you are inside the EU)..

Then CCBILL is the choice for you :cheekymonkey:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

and unfortunately the model releases are the only way to do that, but an unscrupulous producer could easily fake the production dates, so what's the point.

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Such a good point. In all honest, if somebody really wanted to put themselves at risk, models releases, and a photoshopping of any ID could change everything with a model who is 18, or a model who is 30....

One major downfall in 2257, and one major downfall for a "certain" biller.
No names mentioned :uhoh: Dont want to be accused of corporate sabatage!