How personal do you make it?

On another 'board' the question popped up, about how personal do you make your sites? I mean do you encourage the surfer to participate, other than just say pulling out the CC to buy, or do you just use your text / images / market strategy to talk about the benefits only.

I am trying the more 'personal approach' with my latest 'revamp of Gaystoryman' and its a gamble, but I wonder, does anyone really care about trying different styles of approaches? or do you just stick to a set formula, because well, others do.?

It depends which site is is. I have some that I really work on the site's "persona" ... others are out there just to move traffic to upsell sites and so on.

I do think any paysite that can have a spokesperson or persona has an advantage over one that doesn't. I know of a few solo girl type sites that have members rebilling month after month because of the attention they lavish on them.

Personalization on paysites doesnt work.

All surfers want to know is how much porn they can get and how much it is going to cost PERIOD.

The type of sites webmasters compare when it comes to personalization and porn are standard porn sites and 'solo' model sites where the 'member' isnt actually just buying porn, they are buying 'friendship' so yes, with solo sites interaction is required.

If a surfer/member wants personalized or interactive porn, they'll join a solo model site or a live cam/chat network, not a 'porn' site.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Personalization on paysites doesnt work.

All surfers want to know is how much porn they can get and how much it is going to cost PERIOD.

The type of sites webmasters compare when it comes to personalization and porn are standard porn sites and 'solo' model sites where the 'member' isnt actually just buying porn, they are buying 'friendship' so yes, with solo sites interaction is required.

If a surfer/member wants personalized or interactive porn, they'll join a solo model site or a live cam/chat network, not a 'porn' site.

Regards,

Lee

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So basically you are saying, that putting a 'face' to a paysite is not of any benefit? Interesting when you look at many trigger words where it is one on one, which is why I would also assume that putting a 'face' to the site would help encourage sign ups from outside, plus retention. I also think it would lead to more trust, to encourage upsells.

Maybe I just went to the wrong business school... ' :kickcan:

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

So basically you are saying, that putting a 'face' to a paysite is not of any benefit? Interesting when you look at many trigger words where it is one on one, which is why I would also assume that putting a 'face' to the site would help encourage sign ups from outside, plus retention. I also think it would lead to more trust, to encourage upsells.

Maybe I just went to the wrong business school... ' :kickcan:

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Putting a 'face' on a site isnt the same as 'personalization' though.

Giving the user a 'personal' experience means they get to do much more than just join and view porn, they get to inter-act, say what they want in the site, chat with the models, chat with other members, define layouts, upload their own pics, etc, etc.

All of that, apart from the potential to land the site owner in a lot of legal trouble by allowing the member to have access to YouTube/MySpace type features, is actually cutting the site owners revenue potential down, why offer the surfer personalization within the paysite when for the price of another membership, they can join a live cam network and make you some more $$$ in the process via the upsell?

Putting a 'face' on a site, in the sense of what you are talking about it basic branding, making your site stand out over the countless others and giving it a 'face' isnt the only method of doing that, and it certainly isnt the most cost effective way of branding a site.

Most of the time, the people who tell you that surfers 'want' personalization inside a paysites members area:

1) Dont own paysites.
2) Say it because it sounds good.
3) Wouldnt do it themselves if they did own a paysite.
4) Dont have a clue what 'surfers' actually want.

Regards,

Lee

Just to prove my point, when asked in a recent poll if interested by 'live' chats only 9% of respondents said that live chats made them stay a member longer....

http://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=3187

When asked what porn surfers hated most in membership sites, a whopping 0% of all respondents said no interactivity.

http://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=2506

When asked if every porn site should have a trial membership 89% of respondents said yes.

http://www.pornusers.com/replies_view.html?id=4682

As you can see, im not just spouting crap either, surfers tend to agree with me.

Regards,

Lee

Well I think my concept of 'personalization' is different. I am not talking about inter action like putting up pics, or even chatting with the models. Seems that would be costly, and lead to models doing stuff on the side I'd not be comfortable with. (from business perspective)

Putting a face on a site, is a bit more than just branding, though I suppose in a broad sense it would be similar. I just think that in how we approach the surfer, is too cold, too ineffecient. It doesn't build up trust, which may or may not be important but I think it is.

I guess it depends on the style one wants to project. But interesting discussion, as it does help clear up some things I was questioning in the old noggin. Perhaps the term should be personable, rather than personal. Just seems that so many sites, are cold, are too similar that it doesn't lend itself to being more stable in a long term, but then again I do see some pretty staid sites that do keep on making money.

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Originally Posted by Lee

All surfers want to know is how much porn they can get and how much it is going to cost PERIOD.

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I don't agree with this at all. The more personalised a site, the more the member feels comfortable and wants to stay (and rebill) longer.

I hope Lee from MiamiBoyz or Ren from MenWithCams or Diesel from DieselLive...even anyone from JustUsBoys drop in and give their points of view on this thread. All these webmasters do fantastic jobs of personalising their sites and building a community of loyal, dedicated members.

Plus RandyBlue, Corbin Fisher, Jake Pays ...

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

I don't agree with this at all. The more personalised a site, the more the member feels comfortable and wants to stay (and rebill) longer.

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Did you miss those poll results i posted above? You know, the ones where the SURFERS/MEMBERS actually told us what they want inside sites?

Also, comparing MWC and DieselLive to regular porn sites, like i mentioned above it stupid, there is no comparision because they arent traditional porn sites, they are livecam/solo model sites, which i already said the surfer joins because they want to become 'friends' with the performers, not because they want to jack off or get their porn fix.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Bec

Plus RandyBlue, Corbin Fisher, Jake Pays ...

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Yep id love to hear from those guys, because it quite clearly isnt the quality of their content that makes the surfer rebill when coupled with their market penetration and brand name :)

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Did you miss those poll results i posted above? You know, the ones where the SURFERS/MEMBERS actually told us what they want inside sites?

Also, comparing MWC and DieselLive to regular porn sites, like i mentioned above it stupid, there is no comparision because they arent traditional porn sites, they are livecam/solo model sites, which i already said the surfer joins because they want to become 'friends' with the performers, not because they want to jack off or get their porn fix.

Regards,

Lee

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Am I reading this right? Are you calling me stupid?

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Originally Posted by Chilihost

Am I reading this right? Are you calling me stupid?

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No im saying comparing a live webcam site to a paysite is stupid.

Its like comparing an apple to an orange.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Did you miss those poll results i posted above? You know, the ones where the SURFERS/MEMBERS actually told us what they want inside sites?

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I've looked over those polls you posted before. The polls are geared at straight surfers and the number of people polled are miniscule. Useless.

Sorry, I strongly disagree here. I think surfers are tired of all the "this is the hottest site on the planet" and "we have 120,000 photos" BS and the one-page tour model that cons them.

Universal Bear is one of the most successful bear sites out there and it's highly personalized. I don't just talk about how hot the men are, but I talk about what I'd like to do to them and I talk about personal sexual experiences (whether they're true or not, is another issue). And I get countless e-mails from members saying how much they love the hot talk.

I've also got members who are still rebilling from the very first year the site opened. So I'm doing something right.

Now mind you, UB isn't a paysite. But it's also not your typical AVS site in the true sense of the word.

Furthermore, a lot of porn surfers are pretty lonely people. I think that personalizing a site can make them feel a deeper connection with a site.

For the record, Ian I think you're on the right path. I think your site is already appealing to a different crowd than your regular run of the mill porn site. You're attracting people who don't mind reading ... hell, people who can read. I think personalizing it makes sense. And it's certainly worth trying it out.

Michael

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

I've looked over those polls you posted before. The polls are geared at straight surfers and the number of people polled are miniscule. Useless.

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Yet its all the actual feedback from surfers we have to go on so we must give it some emphasis until some better source of data comes along, like trying stuff out ourselves, which i have done.

I recall when talking about members area, EVERYONE on GWW said that simple to navigate, clean members areas are what surfers want and what helps members retain... Were they right?

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

I recall when talking about members area, EVERYONE on GWW said that simple to navigate, clean members areas are what surfers want and what helps members retain... Were they right?

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We inititally didn't take any advice on the member's area of UKnakedmen. So I can't vouch for what other people said. And yes your advice was greatly appreciated!

But I think you are way off on what members want. Our member's board is greatly appreciated by our members and we really do use some of their suggestions for future shoots. Some of them are very creative. We spend lot's of time writing text descriptions for our tour. But we haven't carried that over to the member's area until this week. But I'm quite sure that the members will appreciate the extra information if they aren't looking at the tour for updates. To many members, that extra little bit of information can make them feel closer to the models.

Imo, you only have the opinion you have because you run an affiliate program where any kind of personalization is absent. You simply want to believe that your's is the only correct opinion.

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Imo, you only have the opinion you have because you run an affiliate program where any kind of personalization is absent. You simply want to believe that your's is the only correct opinion.

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Actually no, i added all kinds of interactive features inside the Condom Cash sites, message boards, chat rooms, instant messaging, private web space, blogs, you name it, ive tried it and it did nothing to help retention or sales.

From phpfox, vbulletin, bloghoster, world wide messenger and every other type of personalization/interaction script inbetween that you could potentially think of, they have all been used inside the members areas and they all did nothing because the members just wanted to get off.

Ive wasted thousands of dollars on personalization/interactive scripts for my members because i thought it would be good for the sites, but it wasnt.

Ill admit that i had a few good suggestions on the board that helped with improving retention, like placing banners lower on the pages but other than that, the features themselves did nothing to add to the profitability of the sites.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Actually no, i added all kinds of interactive features inside the Condom Cash sites, message boards, chat rooms, instant messaging, private web space, blogs, you name it, ive tried it and it did nothing to help retention or sales.

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But Lee, you didn't give the members the one thing that is really important – good, original content. You can't expect any member to stick around a site, regardless of the bells and whistles you might add on, when you're not providing them with something they haven't already seen all over the Web. Perhaps if you were to take one of your sites – your best selling site – and update it twice a week with original content, you might see some improvement in your retention. Until you do that, I'm afraid your argument can not be substantiated.

Michael

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

But Lee, you didn't give the members the one thing that is really important – good, original content. You can't expect any member to stick around a site, regardless of the bells and whistles you might add on, when you're not providing them with something they haven't already seen all over the Web. Perhaps if you were to take one of your sites – your best selling site – and update it twice a week with original content, you might see some improvement in your retention. Until you do that, I'm afraid your argument can not be substantiated.

Michael

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Original content is over rated when it comes to people saying that is what the surfer wants.

Surfers dont care about original content, they just want to get-off... To hot guys.

If surfers were concerned about exclusive content then id not be making any sales at all by your conclusion.

Surfers want to join a site to get-off, they dont care if the content is exclusive or not, so long as the model they join the site for it 'hot' and turns them on.

For the record, my retention right now is almost at 40%, thats damn good considering its not original content... I know people who have original, exclusive content that cant retain above 15%.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Original content is over rated when it comes to people saying that is what the surfer wants.

Surfers dont care about original content, they just want to get-off... To hot guys.

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Amazing! Just too amazing to respond.

I don't think 'original content' is over rated, i think the term is 'overused' and even 'misused' which does dilute it at times. I do think the surfer cares along with other factors. I just don't buy into this, that the surfer is simply out to jerk off to whatever comes up that mildly interests them.

Maybe some of the supposed facts, about why exclusive isn't selling, has more to do with the price, the quantity, and other factors, but I think real exclusive content does give a boost to sign ups, if properly marketed, and is real.

I see stuff that is claimed to be exclusive, when i have seen in other places. If I notice that, the surfer sure as hell does, because I am not a surfer, no where near their level. :kickcan:

I don't know about anyone else, but when I watch porn for the purpose of jacking off, I want to see something new. I don't want to watch some scene from 2001 that I've seen several times already. I don't think I'm all that unusual in that respect.

Michael

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

I don't know about anyone else, but when I watch porn for the purpose of jacking off, I want to see something new. I don't want to watch some scene from 2001 that I've seen several times already. I don't think I'm all that unusual in that respect.

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But you also dont want to see exclusive content, you want to see something NEW that you havent already seen. Im sure there are movies from the 80's that you havent seen which you could jerk off too.

New doesnt mean exclusive.

You also wouldnt be jacking off to the content just because it is exclusive would you? I mean if that was the case, you'd be jacking off to straight porn sites as a lot of those feature exclusive models, youd be jacking off to twink sites because a lot of those have exclusive content, you jack off to something because of 1 reason and 1 reason only, the guy in the movie/image set, whatever is 'hot' to you.

You dont jack off to the content because its exclusive. Just like the surfers dont, they get off to the content because the model feratured in it is hot, whether its exclusive content or content thats 100 yrs old.

Regards,

Lee

I think it very depends on what type of site/sites you chose to operate. I believe the exclusivity of content has great value. Perhaps a surfer doesn't care while he is watching if the content is available elsewhere, but if it is only available on a particular site, then he will have to go there to get it. We have added some features that allow a member to customize his experience and the response has spurred us to do even more.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Manifest_M

but if it is only available on a particular site, then he will have to go there to get it.

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Exactly, but with so many sites now using the same producers to get their 'exclusive content' many sites also now have the same models on them also, hence why i said that exclusive content these days is over-rated.

It used to be 'exclusive' meant exclusive, the model/models could only be found on 1 site, nowadays the same models appear on 20+ sites on one site they are a bottom, the next a top, the next they are a sub, the next they are dominant, the exclusive content factor no longer matters, because the same models can be found on a multitude of sites.

Ultimately it now comes down to the model being 'hot' and the surfer wanting to see that model naked, no matter whether the content is billed as 'exclusive' or not because even 'exclusive' is no longer 'exclusive' in the industry.

For exclusive content to really start to matter again we need to be looking at the exclusive 'model' business model but the costs involved with that are going to be astronomical.

Regards,

Lee

i think it depends on the type of site