This Is One Fetish I Just Dont Get...

Bug chasers/chasing.

Last night we were talking to this guy who turned around and told us he liked having sex with HIV+ men even though he was negative and he actually *wanted* to get HIV himself.

I just dont understand that mentality at all its kinda creepy actually.

He then went on to explain that the reason he wanted to was because he wanted to 'share' something special with the person he was fucking and *hopefully* (so it might not even happen) build a lasting relationship with them.

Does anyone else find this odd?

Regards,

Lee

Sounds like a strange form of suicide to me. Sorta like someone taking small amounts of arsenic or cyinide for a few years to see when it will kill them.

Nope, I don't get it, but then I don't get 'people' anymore either.. :kickcan:

There was a big article in Rolling Stone sometime back about this. Basically, these guys have serious mental problems; they are royally screwed up people who are seeking attention and somehow have the misguided notion that they will be part of an "in crowd" if they catch HIV.

The Rolling Stone article included interviews with guys who had caught "the bug" and now realized how foolish they had been, because of the health complications, medication regimen, etc. that they had to follow.

I wish good quality counseling/therapy was available for everyone who needed it, because I think a lot of the people who get HIV and don't intend to are people who have esteem problems and don't feel assertive enough to ask their partner to use a condom, or are the "bug chaser" types. Some are just simply playing the odds, and perhaps that's their choice, but I really wish the ones who are making those decisions because of not feeling good about themselves could have access to the assistance they need to be able to make healthy decisons.

Yeah, it's a real binding experience... for all of the 10 seconds the orgasm lasts.

I met someone like this once also, and he equated it to getting bred/pregnant by his partner.

I wanted to tell him to just get a puppy, but it was sort of an awkward silent moment after that. :hmm:

It's really sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee

Bug chasers/chasing.

Does anyone else find this odd?

Regards,

Lee

---

Odd? That's not even close. What bothers me the most.. is that someone like that, will want to share himself when he does contract some sexual illness, without reguard to anyone else.

For 25 years I've been watching gay men do the stupidest things. This about take the cake.

Wow, just when I thought I had seen it all. No, I have not heard of "bug chasing". Sad if you ask me.

--Chubbs

Isn't there a strong movement to help empower and bring HIV positive people together. Perhaps that sense of support and community is attractive to some people. People love to play the victim, perhaps bug chasing is voluntary victimhood. It seems like there are programs in place to catch you and take care of you the moment you take the plunge into being positive. Maybe I'm ill-informed, but then I'm sure that many bug chasers are too. Perhaps aids has been destigmatized to the point where it's not scary enough to outweigh the community and support for the members.
It would seem that being gay would be enough of a minority to belong to, but the grass is always greener on the other side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaystoryman

Nope, I don't get it, but then I don't get 'people' anymore either.. :kickcan:

---

how true!

bug chasers are mentally ill and need help fast!
if someone tells you that they are bugchaser then you've got to treat them like you would anyone else who tells you that they thinking seriously about committing suicide.

ie be proactive: get them help yourself... tell everyone they know that the person needs help... parents, friends, lovers etc.

if you stand by and do nothing then you are aiding and abetting their (slow)suicide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

somehow have the misguided notion that they will be part of an "in crowd" if they catch HIV.

---

The brotherhood aspect is the number one thing people talk about.

When I lived in St. Pete I had a chance to meet a few Chasers as well as someone who went to a bug party and did contract hiv.

His pride was not in the brotherhood but something that "bugged" me out...

The party had 2 guys from a bb studio and the guy was the proud owner of the "model name" strain.

I'm not going to say the model or the studio but it kind of takes celebrity worship to a new level.

On the straight side, when Lara Roxx got infected from doing an internal scene I remember straight men saying that they would want to see it. That it would be kind of hot to watch her get infected as it's happening.

I remember one straight webmaster who made an std site, about how hot it is to play with girls who have herped and other stds. And hiv was sexy.
So its not just the gay side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee

told us he liked having sex with HIV+ men even though he was negative

---

not for long

Eh...he's living in a fantasy. Either he's talking about it to have something to jack off thinking about, or he's caught it by now and living in a fantasy that he's neg so he can keep his fantasy going. It doesnt take that long to get it.

This is from a profile from someone who is positive. I think its fantastic he wrote this:
for you bug hunters its about 2,800.00 + A month to live with HIV I pay 33% of that out of pocket every month.
think long and hard before you ask for it or go looking for it. and if you think getting it makes you cool HAHA guess what your not

There was a time in my life when I had just graduated college and was really lonely and depressed and would have done anything to "fit in" with almost any subculture. I think, in a lot of ways, this is what draws people to religious cults, gangs, and the bug chasing culture. It's wanting to belong. The sad thing is that there are a lot of predators who look for people like this because they know they can exploit their weakness. I don't know how one attains the feeling of belonging once they catch the bug, maybe they graduate into being a gift giver. I don't know. I can't say anyone is stupid for doing anything if they have their own reasons, I just wish people would make more informed decisions or that there were more options available to them. Maybe a support group for people who are into bug chasing so they can find alternate means of acceptance, love, maybe even hot sex. Then again, there are people who like to get tied up by people they don't know because the fear of death excites them. And there are people who like to swim in shark infested waters, jump out of planes on boogie boards and all manner of crazy things.

Should health insurance and medicare be able to ban someone who was proven to be a bug chaser? It would be a lot less attractive of a community if the main topic of conversation was, "How will I get ahold of the money that I need to stay alive?"
That's harsh, but right now the fact that you don't have to pay any portion of the costs is essentially endorsing it as a lifestyle. You should be able to put people on the list the moment they mention the interest so that they know they're on their own if they go through with it.

I actually understand the attraction to being a part of something. I think that this is a huge part of human behavior and bug seekers are simply one manifestation of it. Plenty of people give up their free will to their church every day. They have a way out, but their not thinking about the way out when they get in.
Are HIV positive people compensating for the stigma with an extra dose of confidence? If someone is confident in themselves and conveys a mastery of the world around them, whatever they're doing is immediately attractive to those around them. Salesmen do this. They fake success and happiness to get people to follow them.
Bug chasing doesn't seem to be that unusual for the human condition. I think instead of viewing bug chasers as crazy, you need to look at what makes it attractive and break down those aspects. "You're a crazy person." doesn't focus on the reasons that the person took it up in the first place, and seems easy to brush aside.

I call it the Cleansing of the Gene Pool!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redapplechris

I call it the Cleansing of the Gene Pool!!!

---

While there's some overlap into straight, this seems like mostly a gay thing, so we're not really dealing with "breeders" to begin with. You can't really cleanse from the gene pool a population that isn't reproducing much in the first place. Also, somehow, someway, a lot of those bug chasers are going to end up on thousands of dollars worth of drugs a month. They don't sound like they're the sharpest tools in the shed, so the government is probably going to help them with that while they drag on for however long HIV positive people can live these days, which is probably longer than the life expectancy in Afghanistan.
Read, "drain on society". The biggest impact that AIDs is having in Africa isn't the wholesale slaughter of people, but all those young people who could be working are suffering a wasting illness, at great economic cost. We're not so close to subsistence level that we feel it, but bug chasing isn't a Darwin award giving event.

How big of an issue is this anyway? How big is the bug chasing community. Is this overblown because it's so freakish?

if people who get hiv in this way are not covered, many will end up dying in the streets - or turning tricks to avoid that fate, and that would be a disaster for all involved. let's face it - your average lazy person isn't going to get a potentially fatal disease in order to avoid working. bug chasers are already in desparate need of a psychiatrist, which means that they already should probably be receiving medicare and treatment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesXR

Should health insurance and medicare be able to ban someone who was proven to be a bug chaser? It would be a lot less attractive of a community if the main topic of conversation was, "How will I get ahold of the money that I need to stay alive?"
That's harsh, but right now the fact that you don't have to pay any portion of the costs is essentially endorsing it as a lifestyle. You should be able to put people on the list the moment they mention the interest so that they know they're on their own if they go through with it.

---

DonMike hits it right on the head.

It all just about fitting in.

There's entire section about this psychology at your local library. Or, just go watch The Breakfast Club.

Steve


"Claire.... are you a virgin????" Just answer the question, Claire...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basschick

if people who get hiv in this way are not covered, many will end up dying in the streets - or turning tricks to avoid that fate, and that would be a disaster for all involved. let's face it - your average lazy person isn't going to get a potentially fatal disease in order to avoid working. bug chasers are already in desparate need of a psychiatrist, which means that they already should probably be receiving medicare and treatment.

---

The thing is that our society doesn't let people die in the streets. People expect to be caught when they fall down. That is a great thing, but not if it encourages someone to jump. If medicare covers $1000 a month of someone's HIV medication, that wipes out the taxes I pay. Poof, not available for schools or hospitals. Gone because someone decided to do something stupid, knowing that they wouldn't have to pay the consequences alone.
If we cut things off and 1000 new bug chasers died in the streets, but 3000 more opted for bible study instead, would it be worth it to have spared the 3000. It's a tough question, but I feel that it should be at least be asked.
Also, I don't know if the problem is of a scale that would justify the healthcare companies putting together a list. Anyone have numbers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamesXR

The thing is that our society doesn't let people die in the streets. People expect to be caught when they fall down. That is a great thing, but not if it encourages someone to jump. If medicare covers $1000 a month of someone's HIV medication, that wipes out the taxes I pay. Poof, not available for schools or hospitals. Gone because someone decided to do something stupid, knowing that they wouldn't have to pay the consequences alone.
If we cut things off and 1000 new bug chasers died in the streets, but 3000 more opted for bible study instead, would it be worth it to have spared the 3000. It's a tough question, but I feel that it should be at least be asked.
Also, I don't know if the problem is of a scale that would justify the healthcare companies putting together a list. Anyone have numbers?

---

Yeah, but James, saying that bug chasers should not get medicare is like saying that anyone who smokes, or doesn't eat healthy and exercise should not get care. You have cancer? Well, you smoked all your life, you don't get any neener neener neener. What good will that do? How about anyone who engages in risky behavior? People who ride motorcycles without helmets. People who surf (yeah, say you're being safe but anything could happen out there). You can deny someone medicare because of their lifestyle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DonMike

Yeah, but James, saying that bug chasers should not get medicare is like saying that anyone who smokes, or doesn't eat healthy and exercise should not get care. You have cancer? Well, you smoked all your life, you don't get any neener neener neener. What good will that do? How about anyone who engages in risky behavior? People who ride motorcycles without helmets. People who surf (yeah, say you're being safe but anything could happen out there). You can deny someone medicare because of their lifestyle.

---

I'd say there's one big difference. Smokers aren't smoking to get cancer. Fat people don't get fat to have heart disease. Bikers don't ride motorcycles to get in accidents. Surfers don't surf in order to get eaten by sharks.
Bug chasers become HIV positive, unless I suppose they're really terrible at it. This is the culmination of the lifestyle. Then they go on drugs to keep from dying and enjoy their newfound community.
Health insurance is in case you have an accident. It does cost more if you have a riskier lifestyle. If you were running a health insurance company and one of your clients informed you that they were going to actively acquire a disease that would cost you thousands a month, and wanted you to cover them, you'd say "Hell no!" A biker might get in an accident, and they might not. They aren't 100% guaranteed to get in that accident, and if they wipe out on the freeway, there's a good chance that they won't need any medical services. You can figure out the margins on that so you could cover bikers, and average everything out so the income from 100 bikers covers the guy who gets in a survivable accident. If 100 bug chasers are going to get HIV on purpose, who's going to pay. They're sticking it to everyone else. That's an abuse of our system.
The cost of HIV drugs look to be around the same as sending a kid to college on a scholarship. If it actually came down to that choice of, sponsoring the lifestyles of a million bug chasers or sending a million underprivileged kids to college, would you really turn down those million kids and tell them that you need to finance the lifestyles of fools instead. Then again, if you're not paying out a dime to those million bug chasers and they have to come up with all the money on their own, how many of them stay bug chasers? How many of them see two or three thousand a month to stay alive as enough disincentive to keep them bug chasing. Would you deny them that drug coverage, if it meant that half of those million wouldn't contract HIV? If you could prevent a 500,000 from contracting an expensive wasting illness by condeming the others to indefinite financial hardship or perhaps quicker deaths, would you?
To put another way, would you let 500,000 become infected because you didn't want to tell a million that they were on their own if they followed through with their stated goals.

By the way, you didn't mention meth. From my understanding serious gay meth users have a near 100% chance of getting HIV if they don't quit soon enough. I didn't say we should ban them from HIV drugs because they're not actually out to get HIV, and telling serious drug addicts that the state wouldn't pay for their HIV drugs probably wouldn't slow them down.

if peoples want to kill themselves with not using condoms let them it is there live