STD's and HIV possibilities - What do you do?

I have a studio... we produce one weekend per month. This month we filmed our last shoot for the year, last month we filmed as well.

This morning I received a phone call from a local dept. of health agency stating that one of my models caught Syphilis from one of my other models in a shoot and that I need to prompt all models to get tested.

Well.... in the model agreement it states, "model is aware that he/she can contract STD's including and not limited to Syphilis, gonorea, chlamidia, etc." and the model initials a line beneath that stating that he acknowledges that.

This is a bareback / safe-sex studio. I leave that up to the models. If they want to engage in bareback sex AWESOME! if not, thats cool to. I do supply condoms.
Personally, I would be a complete bareback studio if I could find the models to do so, it's much more profitable.

Anyways, would it be wrong if I asked models to show me a test of their HIV reports and STD reports and they must be less than 30 days old before a shoot? I know that HIPPA is a law, I know about it. Would this invade into that?

I just have a lot of concerns here. This is the 3rd time we've had this problem in the 4 years I've been producing.

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Originally Posted by SebSloPro

This is the 3rd time we've had this problem in the 4 years I've been producing.

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Yet there are studios that have been doing porn for 10+ years that have never had this problem.

Makes you wonder.

Regards,

Lee

I will say ahead of time, we do not produce content.

You state this:

This is a bareback / safe-sex studio.

Yet you say this:

Anyways, would it be wrong if I asked models to show me a test of their HIV reports and STD reports and they must be less than 30 days old before a shoot? I know that HIPPA is a law, I know about it. Would this invade into that?

I don't see how you can claim to be a bareback / safe-sex studio, if you don't require proof of HIV status. If HIPPA is the law, why aren't you following it?

I'm sure others with more knowledge on the subject will comment. Maybe I misunderstand your business practices, but it seems very neglectful to allow unprotected sex, without some proof of health.

When you pay models to have sex and commercially exploit the resulting film, you have the moral responsability and legal liability to protect the health and safety of the models!

You are lucky it was just syphillis and not HIV! Just wait until someone claims they got HIV on your set, you are in for a legal battle that will take every single penny you have.

You are responsabile for everything that happens on your set whether you like it or not. If a model is injured on your set, you are legally liable and responsabile. That includes STDs, HIV, accidents, etc., etc.

It is a safe assumption that any model willing to perform bareback without a vaild testing procedure in place is already HIV positive. If they aren't already, they will be soon enough. And if it happens on your set, you will be held liable.

Good luck, it sounds like you are going to need it!

SebSloPro, most str8 studios and a lot of gay studios require HIV tests, even if they're not shooting bareback. the catch here with month old testing is that the guys can get it the night before and still give it to others - and others won't show positive yet at one month, but it's a start. and of course, they can give other performers hep c, from which some of the boys can die as less than 50% of those with hep c respond to current medical treatment.

i don't know where you are, but in california, cal osha will eventually pay a visit if the health department reports you. where you are there may also be such an organization, and when they fined one company, they fined over $20,000 plus made them stop risking performers.

if you're working with twinks and you don't require test results as well as testing on site, you're going to keep having these problems - not only because eventually the state investigate you further. the kinds of models who actually know they have an STD often tries to bullshit their way around giving you test results - and those are the guys to avoid using at all costs.

You guys are just ass holes! Get laid or something!

I suggest that you study up the HIPPA laws because you don't know much about HIPPA.

Also, this is Pennsylvania. Not California. We have different laws to abide by than you do.

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Originally Posted by SebSloPro

You guys are just ass holes! Get laid or something!

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Do you come here just to call everyone names and tell everyone how stupid they are?

No, I dont.

It seems that someone's trying to attack someone because they may lack some knowledge or they're asking for help or maybe even an opinion.

I am the most nicest guy in the world.
But when someone talks like this and what not, thats when I'm going to say something and I lose respect.

it seems to me that the reason that you think that i - and the guy from titan, one of the biggest and most respected gay studios in existance - don't know what we're talking about is that you don't actually know the industry that well. test results are very commonly required to do porn shoots - guys who won't get them and won't let you test are very bad risks.

taking models' words for their STD status doesn't work. many don't know and some lie.

who cares about laws? you are working with human beings, some who are naive and poorly educated in matters relating to sex and health. do you sit down with each one before having him sign anything and explain the potential dangers of all the things he could get, then have them sign off each item after you've explained it?

i suspect that you are just being a prick because you don't like what we're saying. legal requirement or not, all the big porn companies have required tests for at least for HIV for years. there's an entire clinic the str8 industry uses.

and btw, chip's is one of the companies that test on site the same day.

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Originally Posted by SebSloPro

No, I dont.

It seems that someone's trying to attack someone because they may lack some knowledge or they're asking for help or maybe even an opinion.

I am the most nicest guy in the world.
But when someone talks like this and what not, thats when I'm going to say something and I lose respect.

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I think people are trying to help you, and you seem to take what people give you, and just throw it in their face. No dis-respect towards you at all, just an observation. You have been hostile on this board towards people many times.

Also, can you help answer everyones questions in this thread:
http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=18859

And sorry to post again, but I just caught this in your post... Are you seriously allowing models to do bareback porn without getting tested at all?

OH MAN!

I can say ANYTHING I want in my contract and it doesn't amount to a piss hole in the snow if it is not in lines with the laws in the jursidiction in which you do business. LOL. That's business 101.

Quick example of a contract that would not cut it in Boston,

"We use REAL bullets in our gun on the set. While we will never aim at you directly, shit happens. You may die. Deal with the risk."

Disclaimers ONLY work if they are within the law. Otherwise EVERY work place in America would have a disclaimer that we are not responsible for accidents that happen. Then there would be no need for a company to carry workers comp...

PS - There is NO safe way to film BB. tests wont prove a damn thing unless they are both positive.

My question to you are you the same guy as Sebastion Bleish. If so you have more things to worry about.

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Originally Posted by deanb

And sorry to post again, but I just caught this in your post... Are you seriously allowing models to do bareback porn without getting tested at all?

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Negative tests prove NOTHIING when doing bb....

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Negative tests prove NOTHIING when doing bb....

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I wasn't making a reference to that in particular, though it may have came across that way. What I was trying to say is it is alarming that no testing whatsoever seems to be happing. Correct me if I am wrong Sebastian.

Everyone else has pretty much already said it, but I'll say it again.

Shooting bareback without testing is, in the most charitable light, irresponsible. Taking a model's word that they are STI negative and/or have been recently tested is simply stupid.

You're on the hook regardless, because you are setting the requirements that the models have sex as part of their work for you. You can't disclaim responsibility simply because you've had models sign waivers of liability, otherwise every employer who has exposed their employees (or contractors) to hazardous conditions would simply have them sign a waiver. It doesn't hold up.

Furthermore, since you shoot a lot of younger guys, most in the industry would say you have an additional responsibility to educate and/or provide a safe working environment because many of them may not realize the risks they are taking .

And you bring up HIPAA, but I don't know how or why you think HIPAA somehow prohibits you from ensuring that your models have been screened and are STI free. It most certainly does not; "need to know" is included as part of HIPAA, and when federal OSHA requirements impose the requirement that a work environment be safe and free of workplace hazards, including infectious disease, then of course you as an employer have the "need to know" imposed by HIPAA regs. Of course, since you've already previously told us that, as a matter of course, you allow your important business records to be strewn around your living room and kitchen after a shoot, then I can assume that you would do the same with medical records which fall under HIPAA, and that would, in fact, be a HIPAA violation.

We tell every model that we will test them when they arrive (currently we test for HIV, syphillis, and hep-C; we will be adding gonorrhea and chlymidia soon), and we also require them, on the agreements they sign before they fly out here, to tell us the date of their last HIV test, which they always claim is within the last 3 or 4 months. But I can tell by how nervous some of them are as they are getting tested, and by listening to what they say to the other models when they think I'm out of earshot, that some of them have *never* been tested, or it's been a year or more since their last test.

If they're willing to lie on an agreement they're signing under penalty of perjury, you can bet they are, as Patti said, lying to your face.

It seems obvious you put your own profit above the importance of a model's health and safety, and while that's your choice, it's a pretty screwed up priority. You can try and rationalize it all you want, but when you are dictating the actions that put your models -- the lifeblood of your business -- at risk, you are putting their lives, and the life of your business at risk.

I would encourage you to think twice and perhaps adopt at least some basic standards to protect the models that are crucial to the success of your business and every other adult business. It's the studio policies like yours that are going to get the entire industry regulated even further than it already is and make it near impossible to continue doing business.

I respect Titan, in fact I look up to them.

I felt as if I were being attacked by several studios.

I am working on a deal with Orasure on conducting HIV Tests on site before ANYONE conducts themselves in acts of sexual nature.
(Orasure is less than a mile from my front door).

Anyways, yes in the model agreements it is in bold capitalized print that if they should lie about their HIV and/or STD status and say they are negative when in fact they are positive of STD's and HIV I as well as the models reserve the right to prosecute.

Yes, I do know this industrys points of different areas. Do I know the ENTIRE industry, absolutely not. Am I learning or expressing a desire to learn? Absolutely. That's why I am a member to GayWideWebmasters.com and GayWebmasters.com.

It just feels that I am being attacked by several at once which creates an uncomfortable atmosphere. And you talk about everyone being human beings.... I will respect people a lot more as human beings as long as they talk to me like one. Until then, I will treat someone like shit. I believe in you get what you give.

I come on here just like others may to gain answers to problems and questions that I may have about a certain perspective.

I don't go to the shows and expos... I went to three and I felt it was a waste of my time. It's not for everyone. So I use this service like i said above.

I have nothing personal against anyone on here. Nor will I ever. But just talk to me like I'm a man and don't talk threats to me.

No offense, it just seems that you are taking such a major issue and treating it so lightly. I find in, really in no other words, repulsive, that you have just taken it into consideration to get your models tested on the 3rd issue like this. I guess as working in this industry first as a model, it was like second nature to have everyone tested before shooting (even though, I might add, I only shoot condom porn!) Even while there is safe sex, there are risks, and we as producers, have to take that into account and act accordingly. And your contract, really doesn't mean shit, your models could be signing it, not knowing what they have, as they may or may not have been tested recently.

And can you please finish out the other thread, GWW was left a bit confused and you seem to have left that thread. Here is a link again:

http://forums.gaywidewebmasters.com/...ad.php?t=18859

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Originally Posted by SebSloPro

I respect Titan, in fact I look up to them.

I felt as if I were being attacked by several studios.

I am working on a deal with Orasure on conducting HIV Tests on site before ANYONE conducts themselves in acts of sexual nature.
(Orasure is less than a mile from my front door).

Anyways, yes in the model agreements it is in bold capitalized print that if they should lie about their HIV and/or STD status and say they are negative when in fact they are positive of STD's and HIV I as well as the models reserve the right to prosecute.

Yes, I do know this industrys points of different areas. Do I know the ENTIRE industry, absolutely not. Am I learning or expressing a desire to learn? Absolutely. That's why I am a member to GayWideWebmasters.com and GayWebmasters.com.

It just feels that I am being attacked by several at once which creates an uncomfortable atmosphere. And you talk about everyone being human beings.... I will respect people a lot more as human beings as long as they talk to me like one. Until then, I will treat someone like shit. I believe in you get what you give.

I come on here just like others may to gain answers to problems and questions that I may have about a certain perspective.

I don't go to the shows and expos... I went to three and I felt it was a waste of my time. It's not for everyone. So I use this service like i said above.

I have nothing personal against anyone on here. Nor will I ever. But just talk to me like I'm a man and don't talk threats to me.

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i have reread my own and everyone else's comments and can't find anything that could be construed as a threat. btw, the "everyone" i am talking about as human beings are the models, many of whom might live without an STD or even live years longer because you've initiated testing. hopefully you'll test for hep c as well as hiv - at the very least. you can not only save some model's life, but if you can explain a little about the risks to each one, you might change a lifestyle or two - for the safer!

You are being attacked?

Who said, "You guys are just ass holes! Get laid or something!"????

I don't get it. You ask for opinions then when you don't like what you hear, you try and turn it on someone else.

I don't think Titan considers you a competitor at all (I could be wrong).

You seem to be very quick to jump the gun, but one of he first to run from the kitchen when the heat gets turned up and something doesn't go your way.

There is just something about you that I can't place my fingers on, but since we don't and never will do business together I am not going to sweat what it is....

p.s. Do you have it in bold in your model contract that if the model pulls his back, then you are not responsible?

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Originally Posted by basschick

all the big porn companies have required tests for at least for HIV for years. there's an entire clinic the str8 industry uses.

and btw, chip's is one of the companies that test on site the same day.

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Basschick,

I'm confused about two issues here. First, you say that "chip's company test on site the same day". I'm assuming you mean testing for HIV. Can you explain to me and the rest of us how he tests on the same day and gets the test results? The only instant tests I'm aware of is OraSure and one other. I've checked into getting those and have been informed that they are only available to dr's offices, clinic, etc. The only other way to do it is if he is fortunate enough to have a clinic nearby that is willing to come to his location and test, or he takes his models to the clinic. Unfortunately, where we are located, we don't have that luxury.

The other question I have is you keep making the comment that the big porn companies have been requiring HIV testing for years. Where are you getting that information? I talk to many porn companies and damn few do testing and those few that do are straight companies. The numbers I keep hearing about straight studios requiring tests are around only 20% of them do. Other than Chip, if he's is testing, I don't know of any other gay company requiring HIV tests, regardless of whether they shoot condom or bareback films.

Bill

bill - ask chip. i do know he tests for several std's on site. and keep in mind that, even with testing, chip's models wear condoms.

i have a large number of friends in straight porn including an ex. vivid was among the condom-only DVD studios. also i was told by several canadian models that a few years ago, condoms were so widely used in the u.s. by larger companies that one big star who directs his own stuff did shoots in canada so he could shoot condom-free.

btw, i see condoms with my own two eyes in most straight porn as i go reviewing sites. true, brad shaw's stuff doesn't have 'em, and there are a number of creampie sites. doesn't pink visual use condoms?

We test after our models arrive using CLIA-waived screening tests, similar to Orasure, that were originally developed for use in public health mass screenings in Europe, Canada and many third world countries.

The testing technology is a whole-blood antibody test that is better than 99.8% accurate for HIV, slightly less (I think 99.0 or 98.5) for the hepatitis-C and syphillis tests. Like any other screening test, for anyone who receives a positive result, the test is repeated using the same testing technology and then again using one of the standard confirming tests. The personnel conducting the tests have appropriate training in the medical procedures involved in administering and reading the results of the test.

As Patti said, we do not shoot bareback content, and we also take additional steps to minimize risk in other sexual behaviors (models are not allowed to cum in another's mouth or eyes, models are not allowed to brush their teeth within 90 minutes of a shoot, and we do not shoot any content other than solo, even with condoms, involving any model who tests positive for any STIs.)

We also clearly explain to our models that the tests we do will not detect someone recently infected with HIV or hep-C, and that the window period could be up to 90 days, so they should not rely on the test results (again, even though we shoot using safer sex techniques, there are still risks, and we clearly explain them.)

As to the availability of instant HIV testing, there are labs in nearly every county in the US that offer the Orasure 20 minute test on a same-day basis. I believe that Labcorp, which has blood draw stations practically everywhere in the US, is one company that offers that service. I know this because if a model has engaged in high-risk behavior and has not been recently tested, we require that they get tested in their home location before we fly them out, and I've never had a situation where I was unable to find a same-day test location for any of our models throughout the US.

I have also talked to many, many gay producers who do some level of testing, either requiring that their models use AIM (which works with Labcorp), or getting tested and having the lab provide a copy of the results to the producer, or taking the models to the lab when they arrive.

I know that Dean Berkeley takes his models to a local testing lab. Corbin Fisher takes all of their models to a same-day lab and tests for every known STI including genital herpes, syphillis, gonorrhea, chlymidia, HIV, hepatitis, etc. Numerous other studios I've spoken with also use same-day testing labs.

In 2007, there is simply no excuse for not testing models when shooting bareback content, unless you simply don't give a damn about the safety of your models.

While it may be considered excessive by some, the "best practices" standard followed by Gaybucks/18West and a few other condom studios we know of is, in my mind, the only ethical way to treat the models, both as human beings whom we care about, and as the extraordinarly valuable talent that allow our companies to be financially successful.

Finally, from a business risk management perspective, it is simply foolish to shoot models, condom or no condom, without testing, fully informed consent, and written and oral disclosures of risk. If you have even a single model that becomes infected as a result of your studio's failure to take reasonable precautions to make the working environment safe, your entire business could easily go down the tubes paying for the resulting lawsuits. An "I accept the risk" disclaimer is nearly worthless if the model can show that the studio was aware of the potential risks, had an opportunity to mitigate them, and chose not to do so.

So from a legal, ethical, and risk management perspective, there are very strong arguments for testing, and, except for arguing cost or convenience, absolutely no valid arguments against testing, at least in my book.

This is an excellent thread! Thank you for the contributions.

I am about to hit the road for the GayVN Retreat, and although health issues is not one of the scheduled topics (it never is!), I hope it comes up in at least one of the panels.

Chip,

Thanks for the information. We checked into using Orasure and were told that we could not perform the tests ourselves on location. I understand their reasoning behind this due to training and counseling issues.

We do have two Lab Corp locations in Palm Springs. I was not aware that Lab Corp offered Orasure testing. I will call them tomorrow and find out. I do know however, that if blood is drawn, the Lab Corp locations here in Palm Springs send the draw off LA, the results of which normally take two to three days.

Again, thanks for the info.

And Patty, thank you for your information as well. Not sure if Pink Visual uses condoms or not. My viewing of straight films is, needless to say, pretty darn limited, but the majority of the ones I've seen don't feature condoms and most of the folk on that side of the industry that I've talked with tell me the either don't use condoms or they let the individual model make his/her own decision.

In any event, their is definitely a double standard between the straight and gay industry where condom use is concerned and I've never heard the term "bareback" used when referring to a straight film without condoms.

Thanks,

Bill

Also, check with the health department in your area. That is where I have taken models in the past, they did blood testing for hiv, with the results coming back in just 45 minutes. That may be an option for you as well.

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Originally Posted by hdkbill

Chip,

Thanks for the information. We checked into using Orasure and were told that we could not perform the tests ourselves on location. I understand their reasoning behind this due to training and counseling issues.

We do have two Lab Corp locations in Palm Springs. I was not aware that Lab Corp offered Orasure testing. I will call them tomorrow and find out. I do know however, that if blood is drawn, the Lab Corp locations here in Palm Springs send the draw off LA, the results of which normally take two to three days.

Again, thanks for the info.

And Patty, thank you for your information as well. Not sure if Pink Visual uses condoms or not. My viewing of straight films is, needless to say, pretty darn limited, but the majority of the ones I've seen don't feature condoms and most of the folk on that side of the industry that I've talked with tell me the either don't use condoms or they let the individual model make his/her own decision.

In any event, their is definitely a double standard between the straight and gay industry where condom use is concerned and I've never heard the term "bareback" used when referring to a straight film without condoms.

Thanks,

Bill

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dean, i'm picturing a director leading a string of 8 twinks into the health department for testing, and it's a weird image... almost surrealistic...

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Originally Posted by basschick

dean, i'm picturing a director leading a string of 8 twinks into the health department for testing, and it's a weird image... almost surrealistic...

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The funniest part may be that I call them ahead of time and get appointments and tell them what it is for, and then pay for 8 twinks test at a time...

Having been a hospital administrator for many years, and through the evolution of HIPAA and several JCAHO surveys I thought I would throw this in, since HIPAA was mentioned...

As far as I know, HIPAA regulations apply to health-care providers, insurance companies and other vendors that are in the reporting end of that business. If you aren't a health-care provider, insurance co., clearinghouse or a provider of equipment, then the very minimum requirement for you would be to get a 38USC7332 (speaks to information on HIV/Alcohol/Drugs/Sickle Cell) specific Authorization to release information signed AND dated; I don't think you have to worry about the rest of the HIPAA regs and standards.

...required when using individually identifiable healthcare information for a purpose other than treatment, payment, and/or health care operations.

...All authorizations MUST contain an expiration date, event or condition, and be signed by the patient and must be returned to the requestor.

USC7332 releases require that the purpose of needing the information and what it is to be used for be documented as well.

Keep in mind that if there is no specific expiration date on the release, it is not valid.

A sample USC7332 release can be found here:
http://www.va.gov/vaforms/medical/pd...-5345-fill.pdf

Just my opinion... I've also been a management consultant for behavioral health providers for a few years, and have had to deal with this type of issue since many of our clients' patients had Alcohol/drug issues...