Are Tube Sites Killing The Porn Industry?

I was just reading some threads over on GFY where people were bitching about Tube sites and how they were stealing traffic, content, sales, etc, etc

I was wondering what you folks thought about these types of site, do you think they are going to be what finally kills sales for adult webmasters and site owners or do you think they can be used as a tool to build more sales?

Im actually torn on the subject, on one hand, i can see how Tube sites that dont police their content and users upload stolen stuff can be a greater damage to the industry than webmasters themselves however, on the other hand, i can also see how, if done right, these types of site can be used to drive traffic and sales.

What are your thoughts on this, are you for or against tube type sites and why?

Regards,

Lee

I'll let you know right after I finish up about a dozen fake tube sites I've got in progress.

I do think these are the "new" MGP ... longer videos and instant play makes those 10 second download half a dozen clips style of gallery very old school. Done right from the sponsor end of things, where videos are just enough hot to get click throughs, properly watermarked, and submitted by the owning site I can see where it could be quite profitable.

I'll tell you that Fratpad's customer base is made up mostly of people who found us through tube sites.

When I started to flood them with full scenes from our site, membership skyrockted. Our top affiliates on Fratpad include xtube, Gaytube and Rockettube.

You know what the crazy thing is, about 4 years ago when DRM first came out i spoke to a couple of large company owners and several of the DRM providers about setting up something similar to a Tube site where the movies were DRM protected, had embedded affiliate links and all kinds of neat stuff.

In essence, i was looking at setting up an affiliate program purely based on content alone, the content could be shared between users, uploaded, downloaded, emailed, whatever and wherever the content ended up, it would have a DRM feature that tracked it back to the affiliate that originally distributed it.

Back then, every single person i spoke to said i was crazy and that content sharing would never become popular enough to make that a viable business option, i put it on the back burner but now, im really wishing i hadnt, id be rolling in cash right now if i had steadily developed the concept when i first thought about it.

In my mind, Tube sites are pretty much the concept i had except there is no direct way for affiliates to profit from the 'content' itself especially now because DRM has such a bad name after it has been abused so much.

Regards,

Lee

Tube sites helped a lot to build my traffic .
i like esecially xtube,boyztube,mymusclevideos and rockettube,

straight tubes like megarotic ,spankwire do bring traffic but very little sales .

I don't buy the "tube sites are helping our industry" crap

Illegal tube sites are some of the highest Alexa ranked sites.. Rapidshare is ranked 14 I believe. A "membership" to rapidshare gives a person all the free porn they want for a few dollars a month. Porn that we create at a cost, and that you market at a cost.

Pirate blogs and pirate tube sites are stealing from the pockets of affiliates and producers. :pimp:

Member Tube sites that directly pay me revenue outperform legacy VOD sites, and free Tube sites that allow me to promo the full length version on the clip on legacy VOD sites help my VOD revenues.

Tube sites have been a win/win for me.

We need a more concerted effort against pirate sites. Titan alone can only do so much. Just as FSC keeps the government legal in the intimidation of adult producers, we need a group to constantly monitor and put out of business the pirates.

Just as the RIAA worked against Napster a few years ago, we need someone to work against the pirates. By the way, Napster is being bought by Best Buy to compete with Apple iTunes Store, et.al.

AEBN, SureFlixxxxxxxxx, and Hot Movies have a lot at stake when it comes to pirate streamers. Put a coalition together of them and a few big studios, and there could be a huge turn around in the fortunes of pirates.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I don't buy the "tube sites are helping our industry" crap

Illegal tube sites are some of the highest Alexa ranked sites.. Rapidshare is ranked 14 I believe. A "membership" to rapidshare gives a person all the free porn they want for a few dollars a month. Porn that we create at a cost, and that you market at a cost.

Pirate blogs and pirate tube sites are stealing from the pockets of affiliates and producers. :pimp:

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Hey Guys:

I am working on a way for both content producers and affiliates to monetize tube site. At jizzflixxx.com, I am working on a webmasters, tool. It is 99% finished. Right now, I need sponsors to send me banners etc to make it work. Here is a boydollars example: http://www.jizzflixxx.com/webmasters...lars/index.php

All boydollars affiliate has to do is enter their CCBill code and one of the surferes watch and click on the postroll, they get full credit for the sales.

If your a sponsor and want to add tube videos to your program, send me a message via icq: 346 982 423

If you really wanted to monetize JizzFlixxx, create a pay plan where viewers pay something, that you share between JizzFlixxx and the producers.

8 cents per minute VOD is a dinosaur model, just like 25 cent long distance of a previous era turned into a few pennies.

Create a package plan like in the equivalent range of a few cents per minute.

Short free preview clips, vs longer PPV clips, but instead of paying by the minute, pay by the day or week (with a cap on minutes/bandwidth usage to prevent collapse of the model).

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Originally Posted by nickbaer

If you really wanted to monetize JizzFlixxx, create a pay plan where viewers pay something, that you share between JizzFlixxx and the producers.

8 cents per minute VOD is a dinosaur model, just like 25 cent long distance of a previous era turned into a few pennies.

Create a package plan like in the equivalent range of a few cents per minute.

Short free preview clips, vs longer PPV clips, but instead of paying by the minute, pay by the day or week (with a cap on minutes/bandwidth usage to prevent collapse of the model).

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Actually working with sponsors has turned out to be more profitable than any kind of pay model.

Never say never.

everything is killing the industry

of course they're bitching

stealing their traffic? how? by directing visitors to something other than a cruddy paysite with 1024 cross sells that also spams the shit out of them when they sign up for a trial and cancel or rebill just one month?

that's like saying yahoo is stealing traffic away from newspapers, or other free email services.

Didn't DVD distributors bitch and moan about the internet stealing their sales?

taking the pirates out will be difficult, and it's impossible
unless you make it really expensive to run their operation
and how would you make someone pay when they have no intention of paying in the first place. Someone just will not pay for porn. Period.

i think we're getting further and further away from the 1 site for $30/month

people want variety
as much as possible
they apparently like hunting for whatever's out there

why would otherwise someone pay a pirate site/forum, sometimes as much as $50, so they can have access to working links to rapidshare and the other services?

Granted there are people out there that would download for the sake of downloading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickbaer

AEBN, SureFlixxxxxxxxx, and Hot Movies have a lot at stake when it comes to pirate streamers. Put a coalition together of them and a few big studios, and there could be a huge turn around in the fortunes of pirates.

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I've pitched this same idea over and over and over again to them all and nothing ever happens. My argument has always been that the VOD distributors have just as much, if not more, to lose from online piracy. They are in a much better position, representing multiple studios, to tackle blogs and torrents sites.

It needs to be set up similar to AICO in Australia whereby it is an independent body with a full time lawyer on staff. I’ve proposed that members studios contribute 2-3% of their VOD sales revenue, to be matched by the VOD distributor, to fund the organization. The governing body be made of up reps from the major VOD producers and select studio reps. By representing multiple producers you can afford to fund major legal battles that benefit the entire industry.

We’ve offered to help give advice and help set-up the organization, but it needs to be handled by the big VOD vendors, not by us. We are happy to help, but we simply cannot afford to take on the set-up and running of the organization. It’s bigger then we can handle.

This is not the same model as GAPA or the FSC trying to teach each individual producer how to write DMCA take down notices. If all you do is try to throw it back into the laps of each producer, nothing will ever get done. It needs to be an organization that represents multiple producer, just like the MPAA.

My two cents….

Didnt MaleFlixxx and a couple of other companies try setting something like that up a year or so back though Keith?

It never got anywhere because nobody was interested in helping with the organization, i beleive it lasted for about a month.

Regards,

Lee

I remember there was a nonprofit group that was anti-piracy and the former publisher of Freshmen Mag/Specialty Publications was the exec director for the first couple of months.

I haven't heard much about the organization since and I don't remember the name of it. Was that the one, or was there another one?

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

I remember there was a nonprofit group that was anti-piracy and the former publisher of Freshmen Mag/Specialty Publications was the exec director for the first couple of months.

I haven't heard much about the organization since and I don't remember the name of it. Was that the one, or was there another one?

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Thats the one, was something setup with Caryn (?) from Specialty and Sureflixxx, basically, there was a press release one day, and that was it, nothing else was ever heard about the group.

Regards,

Lee

An update on Alexa ratings for porn tube sites, torrents and file sharing sites:

10. RapidShare (FYI Microsoft is #11)

21. Youporn.com

29. Dailymotion

30. Redtube.com

32. Mininova

40. Yourfilehost.com

52. MediaFire

59. The Pirate Bay

62. Depositfiles.com

65. Zshare.net

67. 4shared

71. Isohunt.com

79. Easy Share

80. Pornhub.com

81. Megaupload

91. Torrentz.com

95. FileFactory.com

17% of the top 100 most visited sites, according to Alexa, are sites where stolen porn files are traded for free, or posted and people pay a minimum fee for all the stolen porn they like.

From the perspective of a one-man shop: I offer that perhaps instead of a committee sending a press release, rather a group pool some funds together and hire a paralegal and get some action going with Yahoo Groups where so much promotion is occurring, the pirate sites themselves, and the server farms that they host on, and whoever processes the fees from their consumers...

The VOD providers who have the most to loose, plus a few big studios, should have enough bucks to get 1-2 people sending e-mails and certified letters to all the parties involved.

Like a year ago when AEBN took the 2257 bull by the horns and put in a legal staff to review and approve docs on all of our titles, sure took a ton of weight off of our shoulders... the next step will be a small paralegal/legal staff to light a fire under the pirates and friends.

Following up on the great post by Titanmen:

I think that instead of getting 10 top VODs and Studios to commit to ante-ing in some "per cents", and everyone brags how huge their revenue is until its time to do their taxes, perhaps someone like Titan, who has the top experience factor in dealing with pirates, could set a budget and agenda for an office of 1-2 paralegal types, then ask for a voluntary contribution (share) in a whole number to fund it.

Say a hungry law student or paralegal in SFO would work for $50,000 plus office on a one-year contract... 5 VODs and 15 Studios would put in $5,000 - $7,000 ea. Fixed number of dollars, for a fixed number of months, for a first try to attack the problem.

Get the SFO studios, plus what's left of LA, and hottie Michael Lucas, then AEBN/NS, SufeFlixxx, HotMovies, Yappo, XTube.

I checked the Alexa rankings of three of those VOD providers. (For me the top 3 VOD providers).

Interesting how all three have had Alexa declines in traffic in the past 3 months. And then to compare the downturn in traffic to my (as a studio) monthly revenue history.

While all three went down in traffic, on one my revenue went down, one my revenue stayed the same, and one my revenue went up dramatically.

when sites posting the backdoors to paysites and avs sites first appeared, everyone said "they're killing the industry!"

then when pic posts started giving free daily pics, lots of webmasters said they were killing the industry. when tgps appeared, webmasters got more vocal about how they were destroying the industry.

it's been over ten years that people have been telling me that free content sources were destroying the industry but i notice it isn't destroyed yet. sure, it totally 100% sucks that so many tube sites are making a living through theft, but even so lots of people i know are making many sales. i think we'll have to adapt, but i don't think anything is killing the industry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickbaer

Following up on the great post by Titanmen:

I think that instead of getting 10 top VODs and Studios to commit to ante-ing in some "per cents", and everyone brags how huge their revenue is until its time to do their taxes, perhaps someone like Titan, who has the top experience factor in dealing with pirates, could set a budget and agenda for an office of 1-2 paralegal types, then ask for a voluntary contribution (share) in a whole number to fund it.

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Already being worked on. :) I posted about it a few weeks ago at Gaydemon. I hope there will be more info in a month or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip

I remember there was a nonprofit group that was anti-piracy and the former publisher of Freshmen Mag/Specialty Publications was the exec director for the first couple of months.

I haven't heard much about the organization since and I don't remember the name of it. Was that the one, or was there another one?

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It was called GAPA and it was a very generous attempt by MaleFlixxx to try and do something. The problem was they decided to try and teach each company how to do anti-piracy themselves instead of acting as the lead organization.

Trust me, I've been to this rodeo before.....ain't nothing going to happen if it's left to individual studios to try and handle piracy. Until the industry bands together into something like the MPAA, nothing major will get accomplished.

And, I'm really sorry guys but it's not something we/I can handle or take the lead on. We are too small of a company to devote the time and energy needed to make it successful. The VOD vendors are 10 times our size and have the resources and staff to handle this...we don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickbaer

Following up on the great post by Titanmen:

I think that instead of getting 10 top VODs and Studios to commit to ante-ing in some "per cents", and everyone brags how huge their revenue is until its time to do their taxes, perhaps someone like Titan, who has the top experience factor in dealing with pirates, could set a budget and agenda for an office of 1-2 paralegal types, then ask for a voluntary contribution (share) in a whole number to fund it.

Say a hungry law student or paralegal in SFO would work for $50,000 plus office on a one-year contract... 5 VODs and 15 Studios would put in $5,000 - $7,000 ea. Fixed number of dollars, for a fixed number of months, for a first try to attack the problem.

Get the SFO studios, plus what's left of LA, and hottie Michael Lucas, then AEBN/NS, SufeFlixxx, HotMovies, Yappo, XTube.

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See my posting above. We (Titan) simply cannot afford the time and energy needed to make something like this successful. We are too small of a company and do not have the resources. The 3 VOD companies you mention have the resources to make this happen and they get hurt the most from online piracy. They need to be the leaders in this, not the individual studios.

As we have told them all....we would be happy to help plan and set-up the organization and develop strategy. But in the end, it's got to be the big guys that take this by the horns and make it happen.

If you are a producer whose content is distributed on any of these VOD network...speak up! Tell them you want them to be more active in protecting online content and that you are willing to contribute. You are the ones that are going to make this happen. It's got to come from the ground up, not the top down.

Nonetheless, it can't be overstated the valuable effort Titan has demonstrated in its own effort to deal with pirates.

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Originally Posted by nickbaer

Nonetheless, it can't be overstated the valuable effort Titan has demonstrated in its own effort to deal with pirates.

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Thank-you very much, your acknowledgement is appreciated!

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I love putting embedded sponsor tube clips on my porn blogs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titanmen

See my posting above. We (Titan) simply cannot afford the time and energy needed to make something like this successful. We are too small of a company and do not have the resources. The 3 VOD companies you mention have the resources to make this happen and they get hurt the most from online piracy. They need to be the leaders in this, not the individual studios.

As we have told them all....we would be happy to help plan and set-up the organization and develop strategy. But in the end, it's got to be the big guys that take this by the horns and make it happen.

If you are a producer whose content is distributed on any of these VOD network...speak up! Tell them you want them to be more active in protecting online content and that you are willing to contribute. You are the ones that are going to make this happen. It's got to come from the ground up, not the top down.

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I just spoke up and sent out emails to three of my VOD companies we work with! We are in partnership with them, they need to take the lead. It will protect all of our business interests. Without us they have nothing to publish and without them I am not able to fully exploit my contents profit potential. The web is their battle ground. They need to take the lead with our (The Producers) support.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

when sites posting the backdoors to paysites and avs sites first appeared, everyone said "they're killing the industry!"

then when pic posts started giving free daily pics, lots of webmasters said they were killing the industry. when tgps appeared, webmasters got more vocal about how they were destroying the industry.

it's been over ten years that people have been telling me that free content sources were destroying the industry but i notice it isn't destroyed yet. sure, it totally 100% sucks that so many tube sites are making a living through theft, but even so lots of people i know are making many sales. i think we'll have to adapt, but i don't think anything is killing the industry.

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I think social networking sites like FaceBook are doing way more harm. After spending 40 hours a week on Facebook, how many people have time to watch porn.

There was actually a study done about the shift in our demographic audience from % spent on porn to % spent on social nets (non porn).

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

I think social networking sites like FaceBook are doing way more harm. After spending 40 hours a week on Facebook, how many people have time to watch porn.

There was actually a study done about the shift in our demographic audience from % spent on porn to % spent on social nets (non porn).

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LOL, after 40 hours on facebook they then spend 5 mins on a Tube site to jerk off and be done with it. No more searching around needed, it's all there and easy to find! The time done searching for porn is way down because we've made it so easy to find for free. People are still jerking it just as much, they just spend less time finding it these days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FierceDog

I just spoke up and sent out emails to three of my VOD companies we work with! We are in partnership with them, they need to take the lead. It will protect all of our business interests. Without us they have nothing to publish and without them I am not able to fully exploit my contents profit potential. The web is their battle ground. They need to take the lead with our (The Producers) support.

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1 down, 2772 to go! According to the AEBN banner at the top of the page they have 2773 studio content partners! And they do $3.5 million a month in affiliate payments. Imagine if each studio contributed just 1% of their VOD sales and AEBN matched it. That would be around $150k+ a month. More then enough to fully fund an office with a full-time attorney and a couple of staff. And that's just AEBN, add in the other top VOD distributors and there is plenty of money to fully fund an MPAA type organization.