For example, not just bareback content, what about other practices such as watersports, spitting, cum eating, etc, etc...
Is piss play, cum eating (self) and spit play considered 'unsafe'?
Regards,
Lee
For example, not just bareback content, what about other practices such as watersports, spitting, cum eating, etc, etc...
Is piss play, cum eating (self) and spit play considered 'unsafe'?
Regards,
Lee
From a strict public health sense: ABSOLUTELY!
Anytime one person's bodily fluids are placed in or on another person, bacteria and virii, as well as hormones and enzymes, can be transfered, and with it any number of diseases and infections, as well as the unmetabolized hormones and enzymes.
Prescription drugs, and illegal and illicit drugs can be transfered to another person via bodily fluids.
90 some percent of what a person excretes is via his skin, as part of his sweat.
Whatever you ingest via your mouth or vein, can be transfered to another person via one or more bodily fluid.
any body fluid exchange is considered unsafe in california as per cal osha, although condom-free intercourse is the only thing i've heard of them actually citing a porn company for (t.t. boy's). and it is by ucla medical, although piss is less likely to pass certain STDs. i can't see how self cum eating could be unsafe, but then i'm not a doctor.
Ingesting one's excrement (piss, cum, feces) through the mouth, can introduce bacteria, virii, hormones and enzymes into the top of the alimentary tract where they can become infectious.
What is produced at the bottom of the digestive tract can be destructive to the organs at the top.
true... and aside from that quote all that has been said is true. There really is a need to use protection, especiialy to a person making a career of having sexQuote:
Originally Posted by nickbaer
For example - If you get some of your own feces in your mouth, because your fingers were in your ass, or your partner's dick was in your ass then pulled out and you performed oral sex on him, you could contract Hepatitis or get an e-coli infection - from yourself!
It doesn't matter that it is YOUR feces (or other rectal fluids), it is that the mouth and stomach cannot protect against Hepatitis or e-coli period.
And, there's other ways in which infection can enter the body - though cuts, sores, tears, abrasions or other weak points in the skin.
I will add to the above that oral transmission of hep-c, hep-b and HIV through semen is considered to be possible.
There are a number of studies in conflict with one another as to the actual risk, but from what I last read (some time ago) there's at least some credible evidence that it is not as low-risk as was once thought.
However, given the unreliability of self-reporting and the ethical problems with asking someone to expose themselves to HIV or hep-c for the purposes of actually determining the risk, it it not likely we'll have a definitive answer to that question any time soon.
yes, and per CalOsha, a licensed medical practitioner such as a registered nurse is suppose to be on the set at all times during a sex shoot. This licensed professional is suppose to have full knowledge of all of these types of sexually transmitted diseases and so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
funny thing - we never saw a single rn or licensed professional on any of the 20 shoots we did for the companies we worked for as models PRIOR to starting our own production company and working within guidelines....
nor did we ever receive any types of counseling re: these issues even though I made a big deal about it on one of Chi Chi' sets where she wanted me to eat the ass of someone who was very unclean - I was the one who had to lecture her and the entire crew as to the unsafe practices she was trying to get me to engage in... sheeeeshh!
I often wonder what happens when I'm NOT on those sets of hers and the others...
that's why we don't do THOSE shoots anymore - you could easily come away with a disease or amoebas or something dreadful
So i guess it begs the question then.... Why is it only bareback that most webmasters have issue with when it seems obvious there are other 'unsafe' issues happening in porn shoots?
Regards,
Lee
While you cant doing bareback ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by A_DeAngelo
Regards,
Lee
well, and my experience is that of the producers in the gay adult industry that *do* provide any testing at all, most (with a few exceptions) only test for HIV, and pay no attention to hep-C, which is equally incurable and can actually be harder to treat, and syphillis, which can also be really difficult to treat if not caught early?
I think, as Tony implied, the answer is ignorance. In some cases, I think the producers really have no clue as to the safety issues, and aren't really interested in hearing about them, because they themselves do some of these things and don't want to think about the risks.
I think HIV tests are prevalent because of the cultural aspect, where as Hep C doesn't carry that same weight of having been called "the gay cancer" or whatever the phrase was back in the early 80s. Just a thought on that. Might be an interesting line of inquiry for a sociologist.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
And eating poo is just gross! Yeah, there! I said it! People shouldn't be eating feces on set to begin with!
let me finish the sentence for you Lee,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
No, while you can't doing bareback on our set -
I don't know about that many other bareback producers because we have only worked for a few but, I do know about our practices and know that we go far beyond guidelines to ensure that our models are screened, counseled and made fully aware of their on screen partners' status, etc...
I think most everyone knows that - and what the general public doesn't know is the fact that we spend a great deal of time and money matching up our performers and, we also turn away numbers of guys who don't meet our standards
its the only ethical thing to do
And I've even tried to pull together a producers' conference to review production practices re: this very issue and no one has taken me seriously or has even responded to my invitation to join us, doctors and panelests to such a thing - that shows how much serious interest there is in this industry...
This first paragraph is just FYI, since drinking one's own piss was mentioned, I think. (Many people probably know this already, and
I'm not taking a stand on this.) Setting aside the erotic aspects of piss, drinking one's own urine has been used as an effective health tonic for a long time. "Urine therapy" actually has scientific merit, but don't ask me. Also BTW, fresh piss is sterile. It's said that if you cut yourself outside or somewhere without access to no sanitary water to wash the cut with, your own piss is supposed to do in such a case. Just reporting on this, not defending or rejecting.
As for the topic at hand, certainly no models should be put at any risk. Industry standards not only have to be made, but stuck to if they mean anything.
Here's the rub. You'd think what's safe or not is technically cut and dry, but it isn't. The mix contains scientific research, taboos, preferences and tastes, and differences defining reasonable limits. Scientists or not, it's people who decide what's safe. Hey, if someone believes that everyone should be wearing bubble suits to protect themselves from you name it (what's around us in the air, things we touch, etc.) that put our health and even our lives at risk...there's already plenty of scientific evidence to support this.
For example, lots of scientists working hard to fight AIDS (and very supportive in the gay community, not anti-sex by any means whatsoever) think all cocks should be wearing condoms period, including during oral sex. It's science. Should that be an industry standard? I'm not answering that, just saying what is safe is a slightly gray area requiring some kind of consensus, including what is safe in porn.
I need to rewrite what I wrote...
Because there are a lot of hypocrites in this industry. They'll take the politically correct route when it comes to bareback, then then turn around and promote cum eating, facials, watersports...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
That's head on. Exactly what I was saying...and much more concisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth
And, likewise, some people talk endlessly about testing, but when you inquire, they are only testing for HIV, when there are plenty of other STDs that can be difficult to treat and just as easily tranmitted.
Honestly, I think there's hypocrisy but also a lot of ignorance. It amazes me how often I speak with producers who shoot bareback who really have no concept of what tests are actually testing, (antibodies vs. active virus), what a latency period is, what the biggest transmission risks are, and so forth.
I do think that, on the grand scale, the downside of getting a bacterial infection from piss or feces is less serious than the downside of getting HIV or hep-C from blood or semen... but both are unpleasant, and I agree that sometimes the lines people draw are pretty arbitrary.
I started to send you a pm but realized maybe this would be good in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaybucks_chip
Of course, what you said is right and not only that, I really admire your honesty and getting to the point, probably much more than any of us on this thread. It's enigmatic how with such serious risks as death that many people forget "how bad it is feeling sick" or perhaps it's denial, who knows.
Maybe this is obvious, but I'm caught in these issues, not only personally but as a webmaster. I figure as long as people are being honest and careful about who they trust, some things are OK, with little or no risk. Counter this with the following. While I'm not HIV+, I feel lucky that my own physician is a specialist in infectious disease, focusing on HIV. He's told me of a case where one of his patients was very careful, asked questions of his partners about testing before doing anything - and was outright lied to and became HIV. This is so sad and ugly but not surprising, and undoubtedly there are many people who lie. I've known people who are HIV, caring and decent otherwise, but somehow don't feel it necessary to disclose their status until they or their partner wants to fuck. I'm sure paperwork can be faked, too. If one percent of the population is dishonest, then they all might as well be...or is this excessive cynicism?
Here's a real disturbing point, which is maybe going too far. Not only are there other diseases...but what about diseases that we may not know about. I hope there aren't any, but look at the history of HIV, it spread rapidly because nobody knew it existed. What have learned from this? And what to do?
it is unsafe unless you use protection such as condoms, be careful with body fluids cause it may cause you aids later on. Be careful even when you’re having fun.