Serious Business Thread... Why Dont People Listen?

When someone tells everyone publicly that certain boards and individuals are theives, scammers, etc, etc?

It constantly amazes me that time and time again, people who post information about others in the industry being scammers, content theives, and untrustable are always silent while these types of threads are being made yet when they discover that they have been stolen from, scammed or whatever they act all 'shocked'.

Im sorry but if you have been warned in advance and you still associate yourself with these individuals then it is your own fault.

How much longer will people have to be scammed or stolen from before realizing when information about people posted on boards is usually 100% factual and should be beleived?

Pay attention people, a wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf!

Regards,

Lee

It sounds like this thread is about one webmaster in particular, and I don't know the story but I think that our industry there are people who are easier to call out than others. Some people are better protected than others, because they've been around a while or have so-called powerful friends.

I've also sensed a lot of skepticism when these posts are made.
On one board, a poster was attacked for highlighting theiving companies just because a lot of his personal information was not available to the other posters. I thought this was ridiculous.

If someone cares to make a situation public, it is in all of our best interest to research into the allegations and find out if it is true or not, and then act accordingly. But ignoring it because the person is perceived as well-connected is the equivalent of an ostrich sticking his head in the sand.

M.

At some point it's important to look at who you're helping and why.

Going through the effort, and time, to dig for info, then post it and take the flack for posting it could become a cost / benefit analysis. Is it worth the effort?

If the people you are trying to help, who don't dig themselves, and don't take the info you give, work with the people anyway and get screwed then what's the point?

This reminds me of the issues we're having with piracy. Everyone bitches about it and says they want to start an organization, then you contact them and nothing get's done, they don't act.

If someone can't do their homework, can't follow facts, or can't join an organization to help their business then maybe they don't belong in business.

If someone feels that posting facts is drama, and not business education, then they might deserve what they get for not protecting themselves.

But he is a stand-up guy!!!!!




I cringed when someone referred to me as a "stand up guy" because I have come to know that phrase as meaning "I don't really know the guy personally, but we had a few drinks together once and that is enough for me to defend his business practices of which I have zero knowledge"

But Chad... you ARE a stand up guy!

I've had a non-alcoholic beverage with you and I definitely think so.

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Originally Posted by Maryflixxx

But Chad... you ARE a stand up guy!

I've had a non-alcoholic beverage with you and I definitely think so.

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No no no !! Call me anything but that!!!

Is "stand up guy" just a euphemism for "hey, it was 3am and he was still going strong?"

Hmmm!

Chad, you are more than a stand up guy, you are a wonderful and admirable human being.

:angel:

That is so sweet!! Mary said I was human!!


:-)

Love you Mary!

This thread is getting mushy...

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

This thread is getting mushy...

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You could always repost it over on GMS and see what your board members think of the subject ;)

Im pretty sure a LOT of them are glad people dont listen when they are warned about scammers $0.02

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Squirt

This reminds me of the issues we're having with piracy. Everyone bitches about it and says they want to start an organization, then you contact them and nothing get's done, they don't act.

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Actually im with you on this, we have been beta testing our DMCA tracker service for the past few months, have offered a LOT of people free accounts so that they can automate their DMCA processing, of around 50 or so individuals and affiliate programs i offered free accounts to about 30 took me up on the offer, of that 30, only about 10 used the service and provided feedback.... Even though of the 30, all of their content has been published illegally on blogs, torrents and on free sites at some point over the past few months.

I really do think that many in the adult industry would rather be reactive than proactive in protecting their businesses, its a shame but it is also telling of the direction the industry as a whole is heading and has been headed for a long time.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Maryflixxx

the equivalent of an ostrich sticking his head in the sand.

M.

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hehe. I had to...

have to admit (as you probably already know, lee :P)...i'm one of the 30 that didn't make the 10 :( there's just so much to get done as a site-owner that you don't have the time to get to things like copyright violations. not all the time, anyway. but now that we're changing dixter.com up, i'm going to have more time to dedicate to tracking and protecting my content, which contrary to what this post is saying, is very important to me.

it's just that thus far, my time has been better spend marketing and updating the site, than enforcing copyright laws :crybaby:

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Originally Posted by Lee

Actually im with you on this, we have been beta testing our DMCA tracker service for the past few months, have offered a LOT of people free accounts so that they can automate their DMCA processing, of around 50 or so individuals and affiliate programs i offered free accounts to about 30 took me up on the offer, of that 30, only about 10 used the service and provided feedback.... Even though of the 30, all of their content has been published illegally on blogs, torrents and on free sites at some point over the past few months.

I really do think that many in the adult industry would rather be reactive than proactive in protecting their businesses, its a shame but it is also telling of the direction the industry as a whole is heading and has been headed for a long time.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

hehe. I had to...

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Great find! LOL!

Good thread.

This does seem to be a trend which some folks seem to follow. I can't understand it myself actually. While I like to see if dramatic accusations in a thread are true in the long run, I will steer clear of that particular individual/company until I've seen the final conclusion. If I notice "said subject" is not responding to the thread and explaining their part of the scenario, then I steer clear permanently. After all, if you aren't willing to come to the board and explain what might be going on, then I can't trust you. We are all busy and there aren't enough hours in the day for any of us. Taking the time to explain your side of things and/or defend your good name should become part of your daily list when appropriate. This is my strong opinion.

That being said, I have to say I have never seen an attorney referred to as "human" before. LOL!! Just kidding Chad of course.:p

They stay silent because they think it can't happen to them, they are makiing money off them, and then suddenly the light hits them and they really are shocked. After all, they didn't think it could happen to them.

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Originally Posted by gaystoryman

They stay silent because they think it can't happen to them, they are makiing money off them, and then suddenly the light hits them and they really are shocked. After all, they didn't think it could happen to them.

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The problem is, some of these people that have stayed silent, had it happen to them and didnt do anything about warning others.

A good example was when that whole Pulz Productions thing went down, literally MONTHS before his mass fraud was made public, several content providers, ad reps and affiliate programs that are active in the gay business knew the guy was a scammer and didnt speak up.

Their silence resulted in the guy being able to defraud companies out of $100,000+

Being silent just shows a lack of respect for their business peers and colleagues imho.

I dont care if the person being discussed is a friend or not, if they did something wrong, others in the industry NEED to know about it, especially if what they did was illegal.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Being silent just shows a lack of respect for their business peers and colleagues imho.

I dont care if the person being discussed is a friend or not, if they did something wrong, others in the industry NEED to know about it, especially if what they did was illegal.

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I dunno I think reminding people that Maxpowers is a content thief would be considered drama or drudging up old facts.

Maybe a sticky thread with known thief's that people can refer to? So when they're mentioned here we just refer users to the sticky thread instead of having to go through everything again.

People have short memories but I'll never forget paying to get into Maxpower's first paysite only to find some of my content there. Every content producer I know has experienced seeing their stolen content on someones site. It was posted here about 3 years ago but I can't find the thread.

It's unfortunate that other boards let people like this post, knowing their past, and allowing them to build an identity where people don't know their full history.

Again I'm starting to think that telling people important info on boards needs a cost/benefit analysis and most people don't do it, and those who do usually get tagged in each thread as causing drama. It's so much easier telling people privately.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

It's so much easier telling people privately.

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True but its also a lot more damaging telling people in private, again, id refer to the whole Pulz Productions thing, 2 or 3 companies told each other privately that Reece Dylan and associates were scammers, that was it.

A few months later, he had progressed from scamming content providers and affiliate programs by issuing chargebacks for a few hundred bucks to mass fraud, on a grand scale of $100,000+

If those 2 or 3 companies that initially had issues with him had gone public, others would not have been so eager to do business with him and get scammed in the process, they would have been able to do some proper due dilligence about the person they were going to be doing business with an ultimately, that is what naming and shaming these scammers and fraudsters publicly is about, letting others know so that if they still end up doing business with them despite their previous history, when they get scammed they have nobody but themselves to blame.

Boards like GWW and GD.biz are only a good tool for people wanting to do business if they get to see the good and the bad.... Thats why we both have a lot less scammers and con-artists on our boards than some of the other ones out there who it seems are constantly getting threads locked, removed and hidden by the board owners so they can continue to scam others on that board and they have done.

People know that if they post on GWW or GD.biz and they are scammers, they WILL get called on their bullshit and wont be able to run to their 'friends' and get the thread pulled so they can hide their nasty secrets from everyone.... Thats why we dont have any scammers posting on our boards, instead they have all gone to other boards where they can hide the truth and continue finding more and more victims to rip-off, steal content from and dupe in to doing business with them.

Of about 6 scammers that have been 'outed' in the past 3 years, the one thing they ALL have in common is the primary board they post on and the 'friends' who defend them who more often than not, end up being scammers themselves.

Regards,

Lee

True. GFY and GWW are the only two boards, out of four that I've posted on, that haven't banned me, or threatened to ban me, for posting facts with links. Crazy shit when you think about it.

It's ok for some to post facts with links, and not others, as it depends on who you are posting about. I've gotten public/private warnings on other boards for simply asking questions!

So at least there are two places you don't have to worry about posting the truth or asking questions ;-)

Well you know I just publicly outed "Slade" aka "Moxie" aka "Doug" aka "Douglas Brown" for being a content thief on GMS.

The only reason I did it there is because thats where I know he is currently active.

Instead of banning people for outing thieves, we should be thanking them. I'm quickly learning there are more and more thieves among us.

People I will NEVER trust are those unwilling to list their sites or show us who they really are.

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Originally Posted by Seth

Well you know I just publicly outed "Slade" aka "Moxie" aka "Doug" aka "Douglas Brown" for being a content thief on GMS.

The only reason I did it there is because thats where I know he is currently active.

Instead of banning people for outing thieves, we should be thanking them. I'm quickly learning there are more and more thieves among us.

People I will NEVER trust are those unwilling to list their sites or show us who they really are.

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I did notice that on GMS.

Have you seen this thread?

They are using the typical terms "witch hunt" "innuendo" and no doubt the typical other scammers will back him up.. notice Maxpowers has given his support ;-)

Regarding Slade, it was posted here in early 2006 that he was behind Gayclassic.com and the server hosts those sites you listed on GMS :bunny:

Be prepared to get bashed on the other board, or minimally you'll be shunned, possibly banned.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I did notice that on GMS.

Have you seen this thread?

They are using the typical terms "witch hunt" "innuendo" and no doubt the typical other scammers will back him up.. notice Maxpowers has given his support ;-)

Regarding Slade, it was posted here in early 2006 that he was behind Gayclassic.com and the server hosts those sites you listed on GMS :bunny:

Be prepared to get bashed on the other board, or minimally you'll be shunned, possibly banned.

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Yeah I just replied. I almost didn't as I've already spent too much time on this as it is.

If the guys over there choose to ban me, someone who's been in this business for quite a while now and is right out there in the open with nothing to hide, then so be it. They can keep their scammers and thieves. Probably best to keep them all in one place anyway.

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Originally Posted by Seth

Yeah I just replied. I almost didn't as I've already spent too much time on this as it is.

If the guys over there choose to ban me, someone who's been in this business for quite a while now and is right out there in the open with nothing to hide, then so be it. They can keep their scammers and thieves. Probably best to keep them all in one place anyway.

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Yeah don't sweat it. At least you have evidence now, by a third party, that links him to GayClassic.com as far back as three years ago.

I don't know anything about Slade but it's always been my policy to steer clear of doing business with people who want to remain anonymous, or try to at least.

I find this quote from Slade on GMS, original cap locks intact, to be disturbing "YOU can't prove ANYTHING" as you clearly showed in your first post that he has stolen text from your site posted on a site he owns.

Notice Slade has taken down your text now but Google's cache clearly shows it was there before. Odd how the site was changed, and your content taken down, when "innocent" Slade was outed on GMS. :vanish:

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Originally Posted by Seth

Yeah I just replied. I almost didn't as I've already spent too much time on this as it is.

If the guys over there choose to ban me, someone who's been in this business for quite a while now and is right out there in the open with nothing to hide, then so be it. They can keep their scammers and thieves. Probably best to keep them all in one place anyway.

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Seth,

You wont get banned. GMS will allow anyone to post anything about any company (including a current advertiser) as long as it is based on fact, despite the fantasy that Lee thinks up.

(Lee looks at boardtracker too much and takes it personal.)

lloyd

p.s. Does anyone have a REAL pic of an Ostrich putting his head in the sand? I really couldn't find any...

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Seth,

You wont get banned. GMS will allow anyone to post anything about any company (including a current advertiser) as long as it is based on fact, despite the fantasy that Lee thinks up.

(Lee looks at boardtracker too much and takes it personal.)

lloyd

p.s. Does anyone have a REAL pic of an Ostrich putting his head in the sand? I really couldn't find any...

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Thanks Lloyd. I wasn't too worried about being banned. After all, I've never been one to go around spreading rumors.

I'm just so sick and tired of all this thieving and piracy going on. It's infuriating when it's those who are being most vocal about it, turn out to be the perpetrators.

Sometimes I just want to leave this business and never look back.

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Originally Posted by Seth

I'm just so sick and tired of all this thieving and piracy going on. It's infuriating when it's those who are being most vocal about it, turn out to be the perpetrators.

Sometimes I just want to leave this business and never look back.

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I wouldn't leave the business because of thieves, every industry has them.

I think you're doing the right thing by posting what you know but there is a price to pay, some will think you're creating drama, on the flip side... thieves will be much less likely to work with you, thus protecting your interest in the long run ;)

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

p.s. Does anyone have a REAL pic of an Ostrich putting his head in the sand? I really couldn't find any...

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That's a myth, ostriches don't really bury their heads in the sand.

Just goes to show you can learn something new everyday Lloyd ;)

woof! This one does...

Ugh. Sorry it didn't upload properly.

http://www.gaymainstreet.com/TheStre...&postid=127643

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Originally Posted by abostonboy

Ugh. Sorry it didn't upload properly.

http://www.gaymainstreet.com/TheStre...&postid=127643

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Talk about facts vs fantasy he he tons of photo manipulations out there, but the truth is that ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand.. it's a myth.

I suppose you believe in jackalopes now too, perhaps even unicorns. Click your heels Dorothy it's time to go home.

http://sujackalopes.webs.com/jackalope.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UwDaS_xc5g...%2Bunicorn.bmp

um... woof

So anyway, back to the topic at hand, as you are in this thread Lloyd...

Why do you let all the scammers and content theives keep posting on GMS, even after they have been proven to be theives/scammers?

It seems like every time someone is caught stealing content or scamming another webmaster/program they are active members on GMS, do you guys just not care about who you have posting over there or something?

Or maybe you are just trying to continue the tradition that JustMe started?

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Talk about facts vs fantasy he he tons of photo manipulations out there, but the truth is that ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand.. it's a myth.

I suppose you believe in jackalopes now too, perhaps even unicorns. Click your heels Dorothy it's time to go home.

http://sujackalopes.webs.com/jackalope.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UwDaS_xc5g...%2Bunicorn.bmp

um... woof

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I love unicorns. :) I have one as a pet.

i think it is a lot to do with people not wanting to think others are cheaters or whatever they want to think everyone is good because they are good but i think this is when scammers and that can find new people to scam because they do not think about everyone might be a scammer.

my dad always told me to put locks on everythin because everyone is a theive if they get given the chance to be one!

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Originally Posted by Lee

Why do you let all the scammers and content theives keep posting on GMS, even after they have been proven to be theives/scammers?

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I've always wondered that as well. In fairness GWW is the only board I know of, out of ALL adult boards, that bans known scammers/criminals, and I love that about this place.

Online communities are a lot like real communities in the aspect of crime. If you're in a community with criminals, you're more likely to be a victim of crime.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I
Online communities are a lot like real communities in the aspect of crime. If you're in a community with criminals, you're more likely to be a victim of crime.

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Agreed, thats why when we ban someone its permanent unlike other boards who will ban someone till everyone 'forgets' that persons history and then they let that banned person re-register and start posting again... Almost like its a 'PR stunt' to show they do ban people, when in reality, they are just removing them for a while to let the dust settle.

The sad thing is, most webmasters are fickle and will forget about it after a week or so anyway allowing themselves to be targetted again.

Regards,

Lee