Here we go again, free porn

Ok Ok so maybe I?m beating a dead horse, but we all know there is way too much free x porn both straight and gay out there and no matter how hard we try we are never going to be able to kill it totally, BUT maybe we all can make it so old that no one will be trading it again!

I will say that it?s everyone's fault, every blog, tube site, and major porn site that hands out x content like water. We are all guilty of shooting ourselves in the foot and wallet all because we are afraid of losing a 12.00 sale.

BUT!

We are all going to have to work at it and the fix is so simple that in a year or two it will just fade away like a bad boy friend. Its going to have to be up to every single porn web site when they hand out promo content to make sure it is only g rated. Its that simple and in time everyone's sales will go up. Also I have noticed that some sites only have view movies where you can?t down load them or save them, or you need to add your password or the video doesn't work. There you go. Lets kill the free hard core porn!
So before you guys jump down my throat think about what Ive said and let?s make it happen. so add what you think
roy

prob get more clicks to the tour at least where you could see hardcore ;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StunnerDade

prob get more clicks to the tour at least where you could see hardcore ;p

---

this is the thinking that got us into where we are today. if everyone just offer g or soft r rated pictures they would have to pay to see the good sh_t

and if you have g rated pics or r rated pics on the promo content and they click onto the site, turn off the right click save button

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ponyboy

Its going to have to be up to every single porn web site when they hand out promo content to make sure it is only g rated.
roy

---

I agree totally with you. Even more, in my own website where we produce our own contents, all images in the website are G-rated, but they show clearly that paying you will see X-Rated things. In our clips we only show a second of X action, just for the users to know they are paying for something.

I hope more websites think about you and I have said and start killing the x promo content

I have done G and R rated content since the beginning - 1995.

The more you give away, the less reason people have to buy.

The free give-away practices of webmasters and Tubesites is not only harming the content producers, but - a new trend is developing - models see the over-exposure of free porn, and don't want to be models, and have their images and performances used that way on dozens of blogs and Tubesites, no membership required.

And where are the content aggregators that used to sell photo and video? Oh, they've died, because no webmaster or pay site needs to buy content, when they can get it free from the few remaining studios that self-produce, under the guise of "advertising"!!!! What a joke.

And how many of those blogs and paysites have gone away - because there's always a newb who thinks they can attract traffic by giving stuff away?

Well, there's a sticky at the top of this forum with an ongoing list.

You are right, Nickbear why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Wish more people thought this way think of a middle age guy with his credit card in hand looking for porn, bang he comes across a tube site, or a blog and there are 1 and two minutes videos and he just starts doing his thing and he just clicks from one preview movie to anther till he’s finished. No money spend he’s happy and no one makes a dime, or he buys a membership and he can download hours of porn and then share it. There are a few websites that don’t let members download or right click on pictures or you have to add your membership information to download and if your membership wears out you can’t view it anymore. Problem fixed.

Roy, I would love to see how two new promo sites would do with hardcore vs softcore. You should create two new blogs (or tubes or freesites or whatever) using the same layout, sponsors, etc....and have one with all hardcore and one with all softcore. Then submit them to the exact same places, or purchase the same amount of traffic for each. Then get stats and let us know how sales go. :D

Hi luke
It wouldn’t make a difference right now because there is so much hardcore for free. Also the web sites keep on pumping our x content so there would be no way to tell. You have to make all the free hardcore outdated before it would fully work. But we all know that you couldn’t get two web masters to agree on anything not even when they are together McDonalds or burger king. Let alone a date to stop handing out x rated pics and 2 to 4 minute preview movies.

Let’s get real here, a web sites shells out thousands and thousands of dollars a year to make content, and they hand it out for free and kill the bottom line at the end of the quarter.

Attachment 3610







here you go are they fucking are aren't they. its two hot twinks

Attachment 3612

two hot jock, put together a few hot pics like this and if the guys turn on the surfer you have made a sale, but make any movie of them none down loadable , you have content don't give it away for free.

those are great pics, and that's my point exactly...if you can sell softcore pics like this better than hardcore (and show some stats) then maybe (big maybe, I know) others will follow and thus starts the reduction of free xxx porn!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StunnerDade

prob get more clicks to the tour at least where you could see hardcore ;p

---

you keep on saying this none stop, but if all the hardcore is old dried up, played out, all they can see is g and r rated unless they buy, then you have made more sales in time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HunkyLuke

those are great pics, and that's my point exactly...if you can sell softcore pics like this better than hardcore (and show some stats) then maybe (big maybe, I know) others will follow and thus starts the reduction of free xxx porn!

---

Luke, let?s put this in a different way because not everyone is getting it. I?m going to give you all the gas you ever need, so you never have to buy anther gallon of gas again. It?s the same way with porn, why buy a membership when all I have to do is go to x-tubes and get off on a full length new pictures and movies for free, or go to a tube site or blog and get 2 to 3 minute preview movies. Dry up the new x content being flooded on the net and you know in a year or two everyone sales will double or triple. But let?s keep on going the same way we have for years and watch the sales go down and not up.

Does anyone remember the great TGP experiment? Less hardcore images, more links to sponsors and it totally bombed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by abostonboy

Does anyone remember the great TGP experiment? Less hardcore images, more links to sponsors and it totally bombed.

---

its totally different then that, this is to cut all new x content from being given out so whats out there now drys out and forces people to have to buy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ponyboy

its totally different then that, this is to cut all new x content from being given out so whats out there now drys out and forces people to have to buy

---

You're beating a dead horse. Do you think 10 million + websites / paysites are going to follow this?

Look at tubes for instance. They are some of our strongest affiliates. XTube sends us somewhere like 100-200 sales a month, GayTube sends us half that, etc etc etc. Yes, there are high amount of views and the view ratios are something like 1:2000. It's also about exposure.

We did do the "G" or "R" rated stuff at first feeling the same way as you. We were doing 1-8 sales per week promoting other sites. One day we decided to try hardcore. Then we were doing 8-30 affiliate sales a week.

We'll never stop doing X-rated promos on ourselves or any other site for that matter.
We will still continue uploading to tubes.

I am NOT saying that you don't have a point because you do. The only way that will be successful is if THE ENTIRE industry and nothing less did the same. I hate to burst my or anyone elses bubble but it's not going to happen.

For instance, if you put a g-rated image on your site... The consumer will see that and say "WTF" and they will move onto another site that will show that. There's always google.

You have some fantastic thoughts, they are great. But piracy will always exist, content thieves will always exist, and many in the industry will continue what they're doing. Why? Because it's working for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PFLJayden

You're beating a dead horse. Do you think 10 million + websites / paysites are going to follow this?

We'll never stop doing X-rated promos on ourselves or any other site for that matter.

---

Eggsactly! No one disagrees with your philosophy PonyBoy..but the reality is still there that there is SO MUCH free stuff out there, you will NEVER get rid of all of it, or even 50% of it. So, you have to find different ways of coping with a situation the best you can.

What I’m saying is cut it off at the source, just stop adding more onto the fire, make what’s out there so old no one wants to trade it anymore and make it harder to download. You guys are giving away thousands and thousands of dollars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ponyboy

It's the same way with porn, why buy a membership when all I have to do is go to x-tubes and get off on a full length new pictures and movies for free, or go to a tube site or blog and get 2 to 3 minute preview movies. Dry up the new x content being flooded on the net and you know in a year or two everyone sales will double or triple. But let?s keep on going the same way we have for years and watch the sales go down and not up.

---

I completely disagree.

I can go to my free, government run Gym, around the corner. Or i can pay $50p/m for another gym in town. The difference, im getting exactly what i want at the gym in town, and its higher quality. If it was as clear cut as you say, it would be the same for everything in life. People will buy, if its what they are looking for.

I do not give my content away as free views to Tubesites, or blogs other than my own.

I'm fine with out that.

My video content is on the VOD portals that sell my content at 10?/minute, and my books and eBooks are on sellers of books and eBooks.

My concern is the number of self-produced sites going away, or struggling, because of the Tubes and blogs that do not produce their own content, and have no idea what it is about to produce content. Tubes are a cancer that devours its host.

People who host Tubes, or blogs, of other studios' content, legal or pirated, just have no business with their fingers in the pie. They over-expose and over-saturate the models and the market. Shrink the supply, and the demand will grow.

And, I'm concerned that there are fewer content sources, with a pre-produced catalog of content to buy from. Everyone wants to recruit and shoot custom. I want to go to a catalog and buy stuff already done.

We're basically in an arms race. There will always be people giving out the hardcore pics, taking the traffic that all the ones who follow this "soft" method used to have. Isn't this exactly how the tubes came into existence? People developed this idea to be one step better than the porn blogs, and it worked too.

I think a lot of people are neglecting that there are other ways to be original, there are other methods to use to draw readers into clicking.

For a start, while most serious affiliates actually write their own descriptions for the scenes, they leave a hell of a lot out. Most of the time it's 200 words or less. So the posts I write for clients that stretch into 500 words are often going to do better in search. Google always has, and always will, love text. How are people expecting to compete in this market if they offer less than many of their competitors?

How many here actually think about what they're writing, or add relevant information to get the reader to click? Do you tell them how many videos the site has or how many performers there are? Do you ever mention how many videos the guy/s featured have appeared in already?

I think it comes down to just a few things...

1. People need to start making their site stand out from all the other blogs out there. How about using a different platform? Google can easily tell when you've used WordPress, and by doing so you're automatically competing with hundreds of thousands of other affiliates who use it too. If you tried to use something different and adapted it, perhaps Google would see you as more unique?

2. Affiliates need to put more effort into competing with others for traffic and sales. Throwing a few pics up with 200 words or less and links all over is not cutting it anymore. When you look at who the leaders in the business are, they're doing more than just running a blog or two in most cases.

3. In my opinion, there are two audiences, and affiliates need to choose who they are targeting. Most affiliates (myself included) have traditionally aimed for the passing traffic. Then there are affiliates who actively engage their visitors and have a regular crowd, visitors who follow them, and guys who regularly sign up through them. This is like comparing any one of the many thousands of blogs out there with sites like QueerClick and GayDemon. Which is the more successful business model?

Ultimately, I think we can all complain about the tube sites and the overdose of cock pics out there on the blogs, but it seems a little pointless when many affiliates are refusing to take risks, don't have any original ideas, or don't even adequately compete with the many thousands of others who write more, engage more, are more entertaining or interesting...

Those are just my thoughts. It's an interesting discussion though, and I think it's one well worth having.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nickbaer

I do not give my content away as free views to Tubesites, or blogs other than my own.

I'm fine with out that.

My video content is on the VOD portals that sell my content at 10?/minute, and my books and eBooks are on sellers of books and eBooks.

My concern is the number of self-produced sites going away, or struggling, because of the Tubes and blogs that do not produce their own content, and have no idea what it is about to produce content. Tubes are a cancer that devours its host.

People who host Tubes, or blogs, of other studios' content, legal or pirated, just have no business with their fingers in the pie. They over-expose and over-saturate the models and the market. Shrink the supply, and the demand will grow.

And, I'm concerned that there are fewer content sources, with a pre-produced catalog of content to buy from. Everyone wants to recruit and shoot custom. I want to go to a catalog and buy stuff already done.

---

All I can say is... Your missing a huge amount of money.

We were the same way. That is until we got a couple of tubes as affiliates.
We went from not uploading to tubes... Period to uploading to tubes. We shot up in new member signups by 90%. If I had to give a numbers ratio so to speak... I'd say we went from 1 new membership a week to 30 new memberships a week. (Those aren't the real numbers, I'm sure you get the point.). A year and a half later, we've doubled those figures with a great thanks to our affiliates.

We've actually stopped producing for DVD and VOD but do send our exclusives to Dog Gone Video, XTUbe, and GameLink. Those sites and our own are the only sites that have rights. We can do that now because we're holding onto the content further in our control.

If done right, you can snatch up some serious sales from tubes.

What ponyboy wants... It's not going to happen. I hate to be rude about it, it's the truth. I could say, "oh, that's cool. Yea, great idea. Let's go with it." But who's going to do it? Him? You? 10 other people? What about the other 9.5 million studios / sites / etc. out there?

All the big tubes require longer and more x-rated videos from sponsors. Most sponsors are happy to provide those, cause they don't want to miss out on the sales from the tubes.

Ratios probably suck, but the insane amount of traffic makes up for those bad ratios. If you send enough people to sponsors, some will buy eventually. They also make money from selling ad space, promoting cams and dating sites.

For the tubes it comes down to: traffic = income

To increase traffic, they need longer videos that show more and more. It's irreversible.

It's irreversible, until it collapses.

All it takes is a few studios to pull the plug, and all the old content on the Tubes becomes OLD.

And then consumers can return to visiting the studio sites, rather than the tubes. Studio get their fan base back, with fan loyalty, and fans get to be fans again.

Which came first? The Studios or the Tubes? The argument here comes down to content producers vs content middlemen. The people arguing on behalf of Tubes are the latter, who couldn't produce a piece of content if the pieces were handed to them on a silver platter.

Call them pirates, hijackers, middlemen, they've done nothing but distracted the viewer away from the source, diluted the market, over-exposed specific talent and niches, and taught consumers that they don't need to pay to play.

All it takes is a few to pull the plug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nickbaer

It's irreversible, until it collapses.

All it takes is a few studios to pull the plug, and all the old content on the Tubes becomes OLD.

And then consumers can return to visiting the studio sites, rather than the tubes. Studio get their fan base back, with fan loyalty, and fans get to be fans again.

Which came first? The Studios or the Tubes? The argument here comes down to content producers vs content middlemen. The people arguing on behalf of Tubes are the latter, who couldn't produce a piece of content if the pieces were handed to them on a silver platter.

Call them pirates, hijackers, middlemen, they've done nothing but distracted the viewer away from the source, diluted the market, over-exposed specific talent and niches, and taught consumers that they don't need to pay to play.

All it takes is a few to pull the plug.

---

thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ponyboy

What I?m saying is cut it off at the source, just stop adding more onto the fire, make what?s out there so old no one wants to trade it anymore and make it harder to download. You guys are giving away thousands and thousands of dollars.

---

One thing that you are overlooking in that view is amateur traffic. Cam4, amateur xtube videos etc.

Now more than ever we live in a social media world. Back in the day webcams were the way for one to share. After Youtube came tube sites with real amateur content. Even if we as professional producers cut off the content there will always be amateurs to fill the void.

I have my own view of what is driving the behavior of porn consumers and it isn't so much about free content as it competing against sites like FaceBook for the consumers time. That is just my view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nickbaer

It's irreversible, until it collapses.

All it takes is a few studios to pull the plug, and all the old content on the Tubes becomes OLD.

---

You are forgetting about amateur content...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by abostonboy

You are forgetting about amateur content...

---

This shouldn't be a problem. Amateur content is that, amateurish, poorly produced. If profesional producers can really shoot much better scenes than those of amateurs, people will still want to watch good movies. Other thing is that professional content maybe lacks that thing amateurs provide, lust and pleasure for sex. In too many profesional porn models are like machines, push the button and start fucking, no emotion, no excitement.

In my oppinion, if your content is good, and I mean really distinct and unique, you only need to post G-rated material, people will want to come to your site.

To say it is so simple as to just "pull the plug" and all the material the tube sites has becomes OLD is very naive. Do you know how many MEMBERS have downloaded and will continue to DOWNLOAD material from paysites? And HOW do YOU control THEM and make SURE NONE of the material THEY HAVE gets distributed?

Even if all members promised to not give any of their downloads to anyone, there is already so much material floating around that it will continue to satisfy many people.
And as it has been pointed out, so many people prefer amateur material to "produced" material because the guys seem really much more into the sex and thus to a great many people makes it even hotter.

There is so much more involved than just simply having every paysite in the WORLD use g or r rated material in their previews.

And while all of you are talking (or for the most part most of you) about tube sites, don't forget the torrent sites where members or former members share what they have on their desktop with other torrent members.

To say it is so simple as to just "pull the plug" and all the material the tube sites has becomes OLD is very naive. Do you know how many MEMBERS have downloaded and will continue to DOWNLOAD material from paysites? And HOW do YOU control THEM and make SURE NONE of the material THEY HAVE gets distributed?

there are sites now that you can only watch the movies and not download them. Or you need to add your membership information to watch them so it's not that hard. Plus if you stop adding new x-content for promo you will lill the source for the tube sites and trade sites because how many times can you watch the same old same old.

And it is as easy as just giving out only g or r rated material plus you can always water mark your content to find it.

I've always wondered about this myself. I can remember (oh so long ago) when you had to really hunt for hardcore free porn, now it's everywhere. I can understand it being difficult for Program Owners to make a buck.

Now one thing I have noticed is more owners of free sites not really making their money off of their sponsors, but from advertising instead.