engage in same sex intercourse?
Is this possible?
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engage in same sex intercourse?
Is this possible?
Lots of gay men are married and living straight lives...it has always been that way.
Yes, it's called being celibate. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Derek
engage in same sex intercourse?
Is this possible?
You guys are misunderstanding his question.
Do do not have to fuck guys up the ass or get fucked up the ass to be gay.
Lots of gay guys don't enjoy fucking, if guys turn you on, you're gay. If women turn you on, too, you're probably bi.
There are so many colours of the rainbow, can you imagine if we starting putting sexual activity criteria on the gay application?
And just to put this into perspective, would you ever ask a straight man: Do you have to like performing cunnilingus in order to be straight or is fucking a woman enough?
Cheers
Dzinerbear
Being gay is not about the actions taken--one is gay because of feeling attracted to the same sex. Being gay or straight isn't a choice--engaging in sex [gay or straight] is a choice--so it is easy to be gay and be celibate. Wait, hmm....celibate isn't easy ;-) I meant to say you CAN be gay and not have sex~~ I just won't recommend it....
Regardless of orientation , I think everyone should enjoy regular recreational sexual contact with a willing adult of their choosing!
The most popular sex club in SF is Blow Buddies. It evades the "no bath house" law because it only allows oral sex.
Since there is no intercourse, I guess those guys are all straight, right?
Or, according to Bill Clinton, if it's oral, they're not having sex at all.
Has anyone ever heard of someone being "asexual" - "a sexual"?
It IS real.
There are people that have no sex drive. Prefer to not engage in sex with either male or female. (I suppose there could be many reasons why)
Having said that, it IS possible to prefer one sex or the other to be a companion with...i.e. someone can be female and look very lesbian (stereo typed) and not want to have sex with anyone, but prefer to surround them self with women only. Same can be said of men.
But, does that make them lesbian or gay?
When I asked a 55 year old female friend of mine (would have swore she was a lesbian) if she was a lesbian...she simply said no and went on to tell me she was still a virgin...WOW, was all I could say...lol
She said she prefers the company of women but has never lived with, touched sexually or wanted to be with a woman. She didn't want to be with a man either...yet she has both as close fiends...
One could say that it's strange...but, wouldn't that be a judgment?
I mean, is it any stranger than someone who's into collecting porn, BD, hairy men, muscle men, bull dykes, drag queens only or whatever?
I dunno...what's your thoughts?
Derek
You are pretty much asking the million dollar question.
Is homosexuality defined by action?
or is homosexuality defined by identity?
If it really is just action - then our claim for equal rights is pretty weak. That's why people who oppose gay marriage incorrectly argue that someone's "sex life" should not dictate an equal rights protection.
The gay rights claim is based on sexuality as identity. This means that a 78 year old post menopausal lady can be a lesbian, despite that she is not engaging in sexual activity. That's why we argue for for equal protections, because even if you aren't having sex, you are still gay.
Steve
Fish or steak.
It all taste good!:goof:
Steve:
That is SUCH an excellent point!
Now where does that fit us bisexual folk?
Only two things are for certain. It's not a choice, and your position on the gay / straight scale can change over the course of your life.
I do not believe people are born gay. I think it's linked to experiences in life. So it stands to reason that those sexuality-changing experiences don't necessarily begin or end at any specific age, and that your sexuality may be constantly changing even if it's just 1 or 2 percentage points either way over a ten year period. For some people though, it may be a much greater number.
This is why supposedly gay men can be in the closet and married to a woman for 15 years. I don't believe they were gay at the start, at least not enough to be officially considered gay. They may have been bi at 90% straight / 10% gay, and over time those numbers changed enough to get them questioning more and more.
If you believe someone can be 90% straight and 10% gay, could they not be 100% gay just as easily? I know many gay men who have been attracted to the same sex since adolesence and have NEVER been with or attracted to a woman.
I also know gay people who were married to someone of the same sex, never enjoyed the sex act with that person, but could not face that they were gay for religious reasons, family reasons, etc. until later years. To those who think people are not capable of having sex with someone they are not sexually attracted to, what do you think goes on in many marriages? Close your eyes and wait for it to be over with.
Of course people aren't born being gay OR straight (not in any way we would recognize without genetic testing anyway). It's not until adolesence that we develop any kind of emotional attachment or attraction in a way that would define us as gay or straight. I have been, since adolesence, utterly and completely bisexual... which makes me the outsider to both groups (gay and straight). Is bisexuality my lifestyle choice? Will my 60/40 change over time to something more "acceptible", and if so, why? If it changes because I am tired of being attacked from both sides or because its not an acceptible way to live to my family or the neighborhood I live in... have my percentages really changed? Or have I just supressed something that is unequivocally ME?
While you bring up some good points... I couldn't disagree with you more!Quote:
Originally posted by Matt 26z
Only two things are for certain. It's not a choice, and your position on the gay / straight scale can change over the course of your life.
I do not believe people are born gay. I think it's linked to experiences in life. So it stands to reason that those sexuality-changing experiences don't necessarily begin or end at any specific age, and that your sexuality may be constantly changing even if it's just 1 or 2 percentage points either way over a ten year period. For some people though, it may be a much greater number.
This is why supposedly gay men can be in the closet and married to a woman for 15 years. I don't believe they were gay at the start, at least not enough to be officially considered gay. They may have been bi at 90% straight / 10% gay, and over time those numbers changed enough to get them questioning more and more.
I'm 40... and for the first 34 years of my life, I lived as a straight man. I dated only women and got married... and even though I appeared to be straight, I never truly was.
I have always been gay, I was just in such deep denial, I forced myself into a straight life and forbid myself from even fantasizing about men.
Eventually, I couldn't deny my homosexuality anymore. I started venturing into chat rooms and met dozens of other men that were married but gay-curious. That's when I realized that there were thousands of men just like me... all living a lie.
Admitting my homosexuality to myself was even harder then telling my friends and family. But I've never been happier than I am right now.
My only regret... I didn't do it sooner!
with me it was the opposite
i was ok being gay, i just didnt know how my parents would react to it, thankfully they're as open minded as I thought :)
It still spreads disease, is ignorant, and self-destructive. I would more likely call it a "garbage disposal unit" than a bath house.Quote:
Originally posted by LavenderLounge
The most popular sex club in SF is Blow Buddies. It evades the "no bath house" law because it only allows oral sex.
Since there is no intercourse, I guess those guys are all straight, right?
Or, according to Bill Clinton, if it's oral, they're not having sex at all.
I think you are definately wrong on that one. If for no other reason than the simple fact that if you hang out with any amount of gay and straight men, you can pick out what I call a "gay face."Quote:
Originally posted by Matt 26z
I do not believe people are born gay.
There are certain facial structers that are an instant dead give away that a man is gay and never prove wrong. Surely you guys who work in porn have seen this to be true. This is a bad example, but think Justin from QAF. No matter how much he scruffed himself or tryed to look ugly or rugged, his face would be an instant give-away to me.
"Fem" guys seem to more commonly have a "gay face", and it has nothing to do with taking care of their skin, nice hair or anything else. I'm simply talking features and facial structure. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't think so. Of course there is other proof that some men and women are born gay, but this is one you can see for yourself.
Why do you say that? Do gay men and women make you feel like an outsider? Do you mean they do on purpose, you can't relate to them, or what?Quote:
Originally posted by NikKay
I have been, since adolesence, utterly and completely bisexual... which makes me the outsider to both groups (gay and straight).
I can't imagine how ignorant a gay man or woman would have to be to give someone else grief about their sexuality...
Ok sorry one more response; Xstr8guy I have huge amounts of respect for you and your choice to be yourself! That's absolutely awesome, and it's refreshing that your story didn't include something like "but I saw men in secret then went home to my wife", an atrocity that going into the same chatrooms you mention would have me believe is common.
As far as some saying sexual identity does not develop until adolescence, I don't know if I would agree. I very, very clearly remember having daydreams when I was only 8 about being a king, and having male and female servents. I enjoyed the male servents in my daydreams MUCH more, and had an idea even then that it would probably mean that I would be dating men, not women when I got older. I tried to get down the pants of some of my school friends during a sleepover in the 1st grade, and kinda scared the piss out of them, even though I knew nothing about sexuality. I also openly admitted to having a "crush" on Fred Savage on the wonder years when I was in the second grade. Maybe this isn't proof lol but it makes me think I was destined for my sexuality long before there was anything sexual about me. I didn't have any sort of sexual experience until I was 19 either.
Hmm, I am not sure if LavenderLounge goes to the same Blow Buddies in SF as I have, but there was more than just oral sex going on in there~~~~~~~
[I was just doing research :angel: ]
I think I knew I was different when I was 5 years old. I tried and tried and tried to "become" straight--I even tried lots and lots and lots of prayer. I wanted to be the person everybody else wanted me to be instead of being the best "me" I could be.....
I first told another person I was gay when I was 33 years old--when I first left Iowa for Arizona. I think in the past 4 years I have made up for a lot of lost time :devil:
The biggest thing that held me back from coming out, besides the homophobic rural Iowa society, was not having any role models or even knowing anybody that was openly gay. I felt all alone, and scared to come out. I was an elected DA with the sheriff's department, police departments, and state patrol at my beck and call but still afraid. Now, I am damn proud of who I am. Nobody will EVER put me back in the closet or try to make me pretend to be somebody I am not.
I'm one of those guys that is/was 100% gay. I've only ever had sex with men and only ever wanted to. And I was having sex with men at an age that might not be appropriate to mention here, so I won't.
As far as guys who are married for 15 years and then come out, I don't think that it's because they were only 10% gay and just grew into it. I think, like xstra8guy pointed out, they were in such deep denial that they couldn't have allowed themselves to go there in any way, shape, or form, or their whole world would have exploded.
You can only deny your real self for so long and then you start to implode. And with the implosion comes the falling down of walls. Suddenly, they start seeing that rainbow.
Cheers
Dzinerbear
Amen, Dzinerbear!
I believe being gay/straight/bi is who we are and not what we do. Like someone said earlier we can choose not to engage in sex, but we cannot control what sex we are attracted to.
In addition, I can't believe that someone actually thinks its a choice. Who would ever choose to be gay/bi? I accept and am proud of who I am. However, back when I was realizing that not every other guy desired both men and women, and that I was different and risked being alineted from those that mattered most to me, I would have done anything to "choose" to be str8. It was never a choice, it has always been and always will be who I am.
Without exception, when I came out to friends and family, not one person rejected me. Infact, most were mad at me for not telling them sooner. The most common reply was, "I can't believe you thought it would matter to me!"
Its not so much gay men who make me feel like an outsider... theyre really the best people to understand my sexuality. But straight men, as much as everyone thinks 2 women is their ultimate fantasy, its only 2 women fawning over their cock thats the fantasy... 2 women into one another is threatening, and got forbid their girlfriend is into other women... thats even more threatening. Lesbians are extremely dead set against bisexual women. They say we cant make up our minds. I know most gay women will not date a woman who is bisexual. The general concensus for us bisexual people is that we are either gay or straight and need to make our minds. I am neither gay nor straight and I will never make up my mind nor change it. It was hard for a long time when I was younger, but now I say anyone who is in my life either accepts and embraces my sexuality or they can hit the road!Quote:
Originally posted by DigitalJay
Why do you say that? Do gay men and women make you feel like an outsider? Do you mean they do on purpose, you can't relate to them, or what?
I can't imagine how ignorant a gay man or woman would have to be to give someone else grief about their sexuality...
Sorry ... I totally disagree with that statement. I have always been gay (lesbian) ... can remember crushes on other girls as early as four years of age. Absolutely zilch sexual attraction to men ... they've always been "brothers" emotionally.Quote:
I do not believe people are born gay. I think it's linked to experiences in life
the lesbian thing with striaght men is more about, let me get in the middle of these two girls and show them how good i am and what a real man cock can do - thinking lesbians aren't satisfied because there's no cock involved - at least that's my take :)
Derek..
Why dont you and i run a little one on one experiment in Vegas to find out ;)
Regards,
Lee
i believe that your sexual orientation happens a long way before you reach puberty. when i was young - way pre-adolescent - i had a wild crush on marianne AND the professor. no kidding.
DigitalJay, i've definitely had gay men give me a lot of grief over my sexual orientation, but that's their problem.
anyone here ever read "the naked civil servant" by quentin crisp?