Fetish sites seem underdeveloped.

Why aren't there many fetish sites with large affiliate programs and original content, videos, etc ? Do you think the government of the u.s. has scared off webmasters. I know that there are successful fetish sites, but nothing really along the lines of Pridebucks, Randy Blue and the other "big boys". It would seem to me that this would be a great area for someone with enough capital or at least great original content to really sell some serious memberships.

Underwear, jockstraps, armpits, clothes on fucking, bruiser (bouncer types), even the bear/cub area seem to be underdeveloped in the original content area.

I recently heard a rumor we're going to be seeing a new sponsor arriving that pushes all the under-developed niches launching :)

Regards,

Lee

Will the promote niches for Asain-loving fag hags like me? :goofy:

we have two fetish sites :vanish:

I think you'll see more fetish content once the political climate in this country changes. Too many people consider "gay" risky as it is. (I dare webmasters on this board to launch a tranny upskirt site :-)) Unfortunately by the time that happens, there will be a fairly established European competition in place. Another limiting factor is content. By and large if you are dealing with US photographers, getting fetish content for less well-developed niches is going to be difficult and quite expensive. If you can get past the language barrier, there is content in Europe for most every fetish - but that gets you right back into running the risk of being considered obscene by some Texas pastor.

-doug

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Originally Posted by crescentx

Another limiting factor is content. By and large if you are dealing with US photographers, getting fetish content for less well-developed niches is going to be difficult and quite expensive.

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Whilst i would agree that many content providers do tend to stick with the more over-saturated niches, twinks, ebony, asian, niches for their content i would also disagree that finding niche specific content is difficult and / or expensive.

We recently purchased a whole bunch of content for some under-developed niches and, while it wasnt difficult to find, it meant we had to look at what is currently on the market and 'spin' that content to our needs.

I think the problem, for most of the part, is that the larger affiliate program owners simply dont realize there is more to 'gay' than twinks, bears, ebony, asian etc, etc.

If you look at the content we do have to choose from from providers such as maxpixels for example, there are countless niches available in their catalogue that even the producer themselves havent considered.

How many times have we boght content of twinks with tattoos? Bears in leather? Hunk with piercings? the smaller undeveloped niches certainly do have a lot of content available for them, the challenge is finding a company or individual who is willing to look past the 'twink', 'bear', 'ebony', 'asian' or 'hunk' generic labels that many providers put on their sets.

There are some REALLY funky niches out there, you just have to 'look' beyond what a content provider tells us a sets niche is.

Regards,

Lee

Yes, I'm putting up a muscle bears gallery today, the guys are pierced and they're playing with dildos, whipped, cream, bananas, and cherries.

Yikes! The mind boggles are all of niches. I think I must be in heaven.

Cheers
Dzinerbear

Huskyhunks - mostly no one ever makes those sites to begin with. underwear would be a less legally risky site, not more. and clothes-on fucking is a niche that is appearing a little in str8 as cwnm (clothed women, named men).

i like working with smaller niches like these. they convert better, and although they're not for everybody, it's a lot easier to give your members what they want.

If I can add just a little more... it seems that the very first thing that gay men look for in each other, before anything else, is body size. I would say that age would be the second determining factor followed by race.

Let's take an underwear site. Not many twink lovers are gonna want to see big hairy guys in underwear and not many bear chasers are gonna want to see thin young hairless guys in underwear. It's tough to find the middle ground in this scenerio.

I would guess that in order for a fetish site to prosper along the lines of the bigger affiliate programs, it would have to be general enough (like underwear or military) and specific enough on body type (like bear, twink, ) to really connect with a large membership base.

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

Let's take an underwear site. Not many twink lovers are gonna want to see big hairy guys in underwear and not many bear chasers are gonna want to see thin young hairless guys in underwear. It's tough to find the middle ground in this scenerio.

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Okay i see where you are coming from however, you seem to be missing the fact that guys (or gals) who are into 'underwear' really dont care as much as you would think about the models themselves, in fact, much like the 'sneaker' niche, the focus on such sites SHOULD be the underwear itself and NOT the guys wearing it, if you have ever seen a site done by a true lover of any niche, youll notice that 99% of the time their focus is on the object of their fantasy not the guy or girl wearing or playing with, that object :)

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Okay i see where you are coming from however, you seem to be missing the fact that guys (or gals) who are into 'underwear' really dont care as much as you would think about the models themselves, in fact, much like the 'sneaker' niche, the focus on such sites SHOULD be the underwear itself and NOT the guys wearing it, if you have ever seen a site done by a true lover of any niche, youll notice that 99% of the time their focus is on the object of their fantasy not the guy or girl wearing or playing with, that object :)

Regards,

Lee

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Speaking first hand, I disagree. For my personal tastes, a cute skateboarder-type twink in briefs or sneakers in going to get me a lot more interested than my auto mechanic dressed the same way. It's about the package - not just the "fetish." There's more to especially a sneaker or briefs niche than just what they're wearing. There's more even to it than the model - though that's important.

For example, people into Converse High-Tops if you want to get specific. This has all kinds of personal associations - could be just about anything and probably comes psychologically speaking of some great experiences on or about their "first time" - or even as far back as locker room days in school where they had a crush on the team captain who wore his black Chuck Taylors and kept them spotless. Or maybe it was their best friend who had a beat-up pair of sneakers, the friend they even to this day wish they'd tried to seduce...regrets, regrets. In either case, the niche turns them on best - or only - if other pieces of what is before them reinforce the fetish.

Doing fetish is very psychological - moreso than a regular paysite or even a niche. It's about understanding the fetish and I would argue about being attracted to it, I would argue, is imp. That's why we didn't continue pushing the bears or studs niche sites because I personally didn't understand well the niche, it wasn't my attraction, and I couldn't do it quality justice.

That's why I said - and perhaps didn't clarify - that the content would be expensive. Because if I created a niche site - and I've got several really great ones - making bank on the content production would be difficult, getting the right models even moreso....but if you're going to do something, it should be done right IMO.

-doug

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Originally Posted by crescentx

In either case, the niche turns them on best - or only - if other pieces of what is before them reinforce the fetish...

Doing fetish is very psychological - moreso than a regular paysite or even a niche. It's about understanding the fetish and I would argue about being attracted to it, I would argue, is imp ... but if you're going to do something, it should be done right IMO.

-doug

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I couldn't agree with you more. Fetish is about setting up and re-inforcing a psychological scenerio where that person can "tap" into to live out his or her fantasy. It's very difficult, maybe impossible to create that scenerio if you don't share the same passion for that particular fetish.

Having done fetish sites for so long, the sites that I feel a strong personal connection to always do better. But, I could do so much better if I shot the content myself and really developed the site to include member interaction and not just display content.

Members of the fetish community share strong bonds. If you are one of the few webmasters that actually "develop" a fetish site, you're members are likely to stay for a very long time. It involves so much more than posting images or videos and provocative text.

There really has to be a psychological connection, an addictive sexual synergy shared among the webmaster, content, and it's members. Once this type of sexually charged "atmosphere" is created, then a site can connect with the larger membership base just waiting to be satisfied.

I have yet to see a gay fetish site that brings this all together. It starts first and foremost with the webmaster. If a webmaster is not participating, the sense of community can never be developed to it's fullest potential. It is vital that a webmaster be present, visible, and engaged.

If the content is stock, it will never resonate to a potential member. This type of content, by definition, is created for the masses, it has "vanilla" stamped all over it. A fetish lover can see this a mile away. I'd say 99% of the fetish sites out there would fall into this category.

Gay surfers, especially fetish lovers, are extremely internet savvy. They have to dig, and dig, and dig more to find what they. They know what's out there, especially within your own special little deviant area. Good, and bad news travels fast within these communities. If you say your the real deal, you better be or you will never be taken seriously.

Being successful with a fetish site means knowing the area inside out. The prevailing thought is that webmasters these days have to survive by diversification. Well, I say that the worst thing a fetish webmaster could ever do.

Focus, focus, focus. It's all about finding out exactly what brings the surfer to the place where you can help make their fantasies as real as possible. I twink in a thong, and a super chub in a thong, are entirely a different thing. They are world's apart. The further you push the boundaries of body type, the task of setting up a sexually charged scenerio gets more difficult - probably exponentially.

It's no wonder that hardly anyone does this kind of site. The truth is, not many webmasters can find it within themselves to give what is required. It's takes much more energy, focus, money, and plain old PASSION !

Regarding the last post, there were some obvious errors in spelling and some words were omitted. I apologize for that. My partner was hurrying me out the door and I didn't get to proofread the post :whip: I hope you're able to understand the main ideas that I was trying to express and forgive me for the obvious errors.

I think having fetish sites just opens you up to be challenged legally.
Ars used to have 2 fetish sites, Dark Obsessions and See Me Pee, and they dropped them both because fetish is in that gray area.
I have people submitting pee and fisting galleries to me every now and then and I would love to list them, but I have to reject them. its just not worth the risk.

Its pretty sad because to many of us as gay people, fetish is no big deal like it would be to straight people. Leather, dungeons, slings, bondage, flogging, ff, is pretty vanilla to many of us, lol

Marc, I see your point and it makes alot of sense. Why take the risk ?

For my situation, I think I will wait until the outcome of the Extreme Associates case. If they can't pin them down, they can't prosecute anyone. If the Attorney General wins, then they are test case for the rest of us.

If Extreme Associates ultimately wins their case, then I will go ahead with my plans for raunchier content, but I guess you never know who's going to object and make your life miserable.

Things are getting so generic. No wonder sales are down for most webmasters. Nothing new or out of the mainstream has gotten the attention of surfers, or even webmasters, for a while now. The fear of being behind bars is real and valid. Until then, surfers will probably go back to cruising the streets and bars instead of the internet.

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

For my situation, I think I will wait until the outcome of the Extreme Associates case. If they can't pin them down, they can't prosecute anyone. If the Attorney General wins, then they are test case for the rest of us.

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Actually, strictly speaking the EA case doesnt really have that much of a bearing on 'fetish' sites of the type we are discussing here, did you actually see the stuff that EA published? It was a little more than your run of the mill BDSM content.. Actually who am i kidding, it was a LOT more than your run of the mill BDSM content.

The same can be said for the Sweet Erotica case a year or two back, everyone said that if they win / lose it would have a knock-on effect in the industry overall and, to date, i havent seen anything happen because of their win.

These types of 'obscenity' case imho are more about setting the boundaries of 'obscenity' in the porn industry rather than having them as 'ammo' for further prosecutions although, admittedly, im sure that is factored into it also. But, with that said, that sadomasicistic content that both of these producers made, were made purely to push the boundaries in online obscenity and whilst i am one of the first to agree that different people have different tastes in online erotica, you DO have to draw the line *somewhere* id rather not have to see a site full of women having their clits pierced by 10 inche hypodermic needles with blood getting everywhere, the same as i would rather not see sites full of scat content or even something as relatively softcore as those 'fake' *********** sites where the models are sat on horses or cows, or dogs, we know what the site is alluding to and more importantly who it caters to.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

I recently heard a rumor we're going to be seeing a new sponsor arriving that pushes all the under-developed niches launching :)

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I certainly hope so! :francais:

I think you'll be finding a lot more fetish sites and content now that people's sexuality is being discussed a lot more openly thanks to the internet. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who is a diaperboy. He was saying that there is a vast difference in the guys who were into it years ago, who used to hide it from everyone and really keep to themselves, and the younger guys today, some of whom live with thier parents and have rooms decorated like playpens or who wear thier diapers out in the open when they go out to the bars.

Take a look at popular media. You'll see references to leather and bdsm in a lot of mainstream tv shows. The news stories are more slice-of-life about people involved in various fetishes rather than the shocking expose style reporting we used to see. There are many references to bdsm in the series Buffy The Vampire Slayer, there was a report on Furries in Vanity Fair and on MTV. The sexual climate is changing.

Now, the downside. In order to properly shoot fetish content (and to develope a good fetish website) the producer or web designer must get to know the subject matter. This takes time and dedication. It's much easier to do a twink shoot or a hunky guy site than to concentrate on the psychology of what makes human puppy play hot, or deciding wether to dress a model in a full rubber catsuit or pink latex gloves and fishing waders. You have to know your audience.

I think the sites that do well are the shareweb sites, that get the members to contribute a lot of the content. The sites are amazing yet they do not have the marketing or the amount of content that the big guys have to make the sites really push the traffic through the roof. I think by taking a look at the way those sites are run and then building on that concept, creating a whole user environment where you really let your member feel like they are part of something, yet you provide top-quality content in addition to the user content and message boards and all that, they you can really work it into a huge site.

Just my two cents. :)

Please keep the following information secret:

We currently operate two major sites:
www.MASTERSandslaves.com
www.militarymansex.xom

We have the following fetish and niche sites on our development schedule:
dildofucked.com
feetworshippers.com
gymcock.com
hairygayguys.com
jockslockerroom.com
jockstrapfantasy.com
jockstrapstuds.com
mankink.com
kinkink.com
motorcyclestuds.com
pornographuck.com
radicalfisting.com
skinheadsex.com
surferboysex.com
whipmasters.com
badboybriefs.com
collarandleash.com
ebaygay.com
hotjockstuff.com
notquitenaked.com

plus 30 more covering underwear, nipples, armpits, piss, bears, daddies.

All will have affiliate programs.

As a reminder, launching this fall:

gayowned.com

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Originally Posted by SuperDad

ebaygay.com

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Good luck with that one :eek:

Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen imho.

Regards,

Lee

I sure pray for the lawsuit. The publicity will be awesome.

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Originally Posted by SuperDad

I sure pray for the lawsuit. The publicity will be awesome.

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LOL

Whatever.

Regards,

Lee

Actually, when I did it with gayorbitz.com, they just bought me out.

Wait, wait, wait a second. Militarymansex.com has a guy with shaved armpits on the front. I'm sorry, but military guys don't shave their armpits. This is exactly what I am talking about when webmasters don't understand what it takes to connect with their fetish.

Actually, most of our models come from Camp Pendleton marine base and the SD naval base.

Certain special ops teams do shave armpits and other parts of the anatomy for assignments that require it. We learned about it because some of the marines who model for us are, in fact, shaved.

The webmaster for the site is an ex-marine.

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Originally Posted by Huskyhunks

Why aren't there many fetish sites with large affiliate programs and original content, videos, etc ? Do you think the government of the u.s. has scared off webmasters. I know that there are successful fetish sites, but nothing really along the lines of Pridebucks, Randy Blue and the other "big boys". It would seem to me that this would be a great area for someone with enough capital or at least great original content to really sell some serious memberships.

Underwear, jockstraps, armpits, clothes on fucking, bruiser (bouncer types), even the bear/cub area seem to be underdeveloped in the original content area.

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Huskyhunks...

I for one have tried to contact different fetish site owners/managers in an effort to distribute their product lines. Unfortunately, I have "never" got a reply/response from any of the them. Maybe I'm contacting the wrong people? But it seems as if they want to keep their stuff to themselves.

PapaBear

I'm adding content to our Fetish Theater. Agreed , some of it is a bit hard to find but it is out there. Some of what is out there is is just ok and some is very hot.
To me bear and twink and cub are not "fetish" but watersports, mummification, armpits, socks, feet, caps, jocks, underwear are fetish. XonDemand will cater to the desires of it's customers. If they want underwear...on bears, on twinks, on cubs, and that content is available I'll give it to them. That's the business.
If you're out there making fetish content get in touch with me. If you want to make more money ask me about our affiliate program.
I'm looking forward to partying in Phoenix with all you crazies!!!!!!!

Hugs,
N ICQ 327986429

Papabear, I dare say there is anyone to go to for content. I've seen not so great designed personal websites with phenominal content which I would love to use but I've never gotten a response back from them about their images or video... I don't blame them. I think adult webmasters aren't perceived as the most ethical bunch so the average joe fetish is keeping his distance.

Superdad, if it sells, then that's a good thing. More power to you !

Lee, I'm very aware of what Extreme Associates is about. It's not my thing, but I'm also not naive. Extreme Associates did not really create the market for this. In every society, there exist persons that find these types of things erotic. They are walking around the streets, from every walk of life. Shutting down the website will do no good. If anything, hopefully having this website online stops people from acting on their impulses instead of feeding them. As far as scat goes, I'd love to see more sites. Needles, not my thing. But I just change the channel like I do on the tv if it's not for me.

DonMike, fetish is definitely going mainstream on us, ok, maybe not that far but definitely out of the closet. Too bad webmasters don't seem to be following suit. I know that I have no right to point a finger because I'm capable of producing this type of content myself and I may do that but for now I'm just a bunch of hot air :chicken:

Neilxod, could there possibly be fetish folks out there that are finding what they need ? I doubt it. First, a market has yet to be created on the webmaster end. That hasn't happened. No market=no interest. Fetish guys used to play online alot. Yahoo, msn groups, bulletin boards, etc. then one day they are all gone. What's left is ripped, young, thin, glossy billboards walking around shaking their asses online. Well that's fine, but doesn't do a thing for hardcore fetish lovers. They are back in their beds, slings, bars, alleys, doing hookups, baths, bookstores, doing their thing. Maybe one day there will be a reason for these guys to check out what's online but judging from things, it's getting more vanilla by the day out there.