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There is an interesting post on GFY about which sites rip off people with lousy members' area, meaning poor content, not enough content, etc. Of course, being GFY, the thred quicky descended into name calling and off-topic obscenities! But was wondering what gay sites are misleading "rip-offs."
Anyone?
Lol, I'm not sure anyone will want to piss off sponsors/potential sponsors to this board. ;) But it is a good question.
I'm not gonna name names, but I'll give you some blatent generalizations... so take them at face value.
Anyone offering payouts that exceed the billing price isn't playing the quality game, but strategizing more along the lines of "we'll shave the webmaster, and jerk the surfer through 10,000,000 exit consoles, cross sells, and have a members area that consists purely of upsells."
I think you can tell a lot about a program just by what their payout price is. More isn't necessarily better. I'd say higher payouts basically translates to "our site sucks, and we need more traffic to throw at it to make it convert, so we're willing to pay you more to get you in the door and send traffic". So higher payouts don't necessarily mean you'll make more money promoting someone. Just means you'll see more webmasters trying to send them traffic, despite being complete shit quality.
:nowords:
i think it is extremely important to tell your surfers exactly what they will get in the members are BEFORE they join, this is the best way to avoid chargebacks.
cheers,
Luke
For sponsors it can be traced back to 2001 and 2002 when the onslaught of sponsor companies started up. When I say "sponsor companies" you know the type I'm talking about.
That was the time period when people realized you could make big bucks off a large affiliate base regardless of your actual product's quality.
Think of the very best sites out there content wise. They may have an affiliate program, but their entire business isn't (or hasn't always been) based around being a well known sponsor. They have the ability to honestly sell a legit product on their own. They know what sells. They know what retains. They've been there before without an affiliate base backing them and have been successful without scamming. Certain "sponsor companies" can't say most of that no matter how big their names may seem.
I'm Guilty as Charged! :(
I promote this one sponsor pretty aggressively but i have NO IDEA why anyone would want to join their site OR why they'd even want to stay around after seeing their member's section.
Sounds real bad but hey, they convert really well. I've been in their members’ area a few times and it's total crap! I just join to get promotional content at times and then i get out as soon as i can, it's that bad. Crappy design, content, and layout. You name it, it sucks!
The only reason i'm staying with them is that they payout a high one-time fee for their FREE 3day trial memberships! Who doesn't want free porn, right? Well i mean obviously their numbers show that enough of these free trials turn into paid memberships, so they can afford to do this. But it still bothers me thinking about all those guy's who're unexpectedly getting charged after their trial ends, but it's right there in writing so what can you do.
LOLOLOL every time i have doubts about whether the pay-site that i'm putting together will make money, i think about their site and i immediately feel better, knowing damn well that people will buy anything!!
hmmmm....I love them!!
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Originally Posted by Matt 26z
This is definitely the case with the sponsor i was talking about above...but it's still true today...it's all about traffic...people will buy whatever you may be selling.
This is changing, but as it stands today, there are still A LOT of shitty gay sites out there that are doing really well.
although what you say is all too often true, any program with a great member area that retains on average over two months can easily afford to pay out $30 on a $24.95 signup - especially if they have an exit console and a few nice upsells in the member area. i promote several revshare sites where i make $45 - $60 per join.
besides, programs like nastydollars don't pay for the trials if the trial member cancels immediately. i was pleasantly surprised how few DID cancel immediately :-)
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Originally Posted by xenigo
$60 per signup? That sounds like an awesome deal. Can you let us know who offers this?Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
The most that i'm earning on one-time payouts is $35. But my friend recently signed up with Randy Blue and i think he's making $55 per sale.
revshare and per signup are two different models. revshare means that the program and you split the money spent by surfers you send who buy - 50/50 is industry standard, i'd say.
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Originally Posted by basschick
I'm familiar with that concept but i guess when i heard you said $45-60 per join, i assumed that you meant per signup. So did you actually mean $45-60 per join over an extended period of time, with the recurring billing? If that's what you were talking about...Wow! i can't believe that you can actually keep track of signups to that degree! That's awesome. Does your affiliate stats provide you with that info? I primarily use CCBill, do you know if i could track such info with their affiliate program?
In my personal opinion, I never came across a site that would be so god that I'd be wishing to pay for it for ages...
Rarely who actually delivers what they say.... and in fact, when you're horny you'll buy just about anything.... It's like watching porn movies: who the fuck watches them from the beginning to the end? I don't know anyone; one usually watches so long untill ... well you know:)
I am same with the paysites... actually the only "paysites" that I'm willing to stick around are more or less AEN's or similiar, where you actually get tons of (sometimes very boring and repetative) sites..
I don't know... maybe I'm not a regular Joe Blow.. but I've been member to most of the big sites and I was ALWAYS disappointed....
from Badpuppy, Chisel, Bedfelow, Gaymen, GalaxyMale, FalconStudios to AbsolutelyMale and tons of others... Either they promise things you can hardly locate, they promise way too much, have tons of outside content which you have to pay for, are plain disgustingly ugly, have outdated content, or just think that by having tons of poor plugin videos that you'd be just over your head...
I'm not also sure what a perfect member site should look like... Why not talk about that? Can you think of any site that has a BLOW ME NOW member area? (It needn't be your sponsor:)
I know what you mean Dalimili. I don't like that general "mega-site" crap either. I find that i prefer amateur sites with exclusive guys with photos and videos...this way you develop a "connection" (ok maybe an "obsession" hehe) with some of the regular guys and that way it's sooo much hotter watching them in sexual acts.Quote:
Originally Posted by dalimili
So a site that I finding myself going back to on a regular basis is Seancody.com. It's simple and straight forward, nice design, you get both videos and pics (even if they are vid caps), their videos are downloadable with a very good quality, and their guys are hot. This is one of the only sites that i can actually say i buy a membership to every so often.
There are a few other sites that i find very hot (straightcollegemen.com, amateurstraightguys.com, corbinfisher.com, bukbuddies.com, jakecruise.com, jerkoffguys.com) but they haven't made me want to signup with them. Well, actually I've signed up with each one of them maybe once in the past, but that's about it.
What do you guys think? is it only my straight-boy fetish, or do you guys also find these sites hot?
ccbill affiliate stats shows the member, and the original date he signed up. so you can very easily track duration of memberships. a very cool tool!
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Originally Posted by dillmedia
I've subscribed to a few sites of people who post on the boards. I was shocked to find memebers areas with around 10 videos , a few galleries and tons of advertising all for over $20 a month! Then they pose as experts on the boards, post about what ethical business people they are, giving the members what they want etc. etc.
Through the years I've been in this business I've found good people are hard to find. So when you do find them be thankful and don't take them for granted.
Snowboy I find those sites hot too.
basschick I hate to say it but I've found that on sites where the affiliates are controlled by CCBill or Verotell, my conversions have been exactly consistant, while a banner with an affiliate, in the same spot, that pays $40 per signup is strangely lacking is sales. In the end you make as much on the $40 signup sites as you do a 50/50 split with CCBill or Verotel. That's been my experience.
interesting... i often do quite well on ccbill sites. my best converting - and most consistant - sponsor for the last year is a ccbill sponsor.
verotel is another matter. they don't sell for me, and i just can't be bothered.
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Originally Posted by Squirt
Yeah that's what I just said in my post :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Squirt and Basschick, I totally agree... It seems like the sponsors I promote through CCBILL are consistent, dependable. The others are so sporadic.
Snowboy mentioned seancody.com -- since I've ever started promoting him, he's been converting consistently. And, I see a good level of rebills.
Basschick -- you know, I never actually looked at it that way (rebills amounting actually to $60/signup). Looking at it like that, I would imagine, then, that seancody.com is doing very well for me!
Cheers,
Brian
All of these crappy sites make me wonder 1 thing that I've actually always wondered... Why don't paysites give webmasters a free month to go in and check their site out? Wouldn't that help you to promote them better? I know it'd help me :)
Well I have a transparent preview so what you see outside, you get inside, but some sites definately don't want you to get a free preview inside because they know you wouldn't promote them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverendSassy
There truly are a handful of really good sites out there. Next time someone gives advice about how to make a good site goto theirs, if they they have a site at all ha ha!
why are you guys comparing CCBill to Verotel?
Shouldn't you guys be comparing the sites that use one over the other, instead?
Or are you guys implying that CCBill has a more accurate and reliable payment processing system than Verotel?
A friend and business associate of mine and i are thinking about going with Verotel for payment processing (we're both in Canada and CCBill makes it way too hard for Canadians to setup an account, so our next best option is Verotel). So are you guys saying that if you came across a site that used Verotel, you might reconsider signing up for their affiliate program?
If so, this is very serious, and we'd have to find a way setup with CCBill instead.
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Originally Posted by SnowBoy
I use Verotel so I'm not saying that at all. Honestly I think you should sign up with homever is easiest then signup with CCBill as well. You need two processors these days in case one goes under. :groovy:
Not Sure About "Misleading" But Quite A Few That Have Very Little "Content" V.S "The Splash" Which I Think Sometimes Besides "The Tour" Is Designed By Someone Other Than The Webmaster Him/HerselfQuote:
Originally Posted by dillmedia
I Make It A Point Of "Joining" Most Sites ( Sorta'Like A Porn Consumer Reports! :) To See "What's Inside" ( Copyright Infringement Is Punishable By Me! ) , "Navigation" ( Site Design , Set-Up , Coding , Etc ) , "Trends/Fetish/Etc" ( What Got Me To Sign-Up )
I Will Not "Name-Names" ( Except Of Course When I Release My Lifestory! ) Because Surprising Enough The Sites Which Are "Guilty" Are The Very Ones Which Have A "High Conversion" ( My Bank Does Not Lie! ) And In The Interest Of Protecting My "Savings"..Err.."The Innocent" I Cannot Reveal My "Bank Statements"..Err..Sources!:)
Sincerely ~..."If You Package Nice! , Market It Right!...I Buy Bologna!"...:)
I would just think that sponsors who truly have nothing to hide would let you see the inside of their sites :)
Well... a bit of an update...
I signed up for one of the SILVERCASH gay sites, basically Giant Gay Cocks.com...
Paid $ 1.95
WOW, WAS I FUCKINGLY DISSAPOINTED.... beyond dissapointement....
I was suppose to get access to all of their sites, and 1000000's of photos and what not.... so, when I finally got into their members area.... hmmm... some 200 models, with each of around 40 photos, but all those models were.... well... not giant at all...
What the bastards did, was they morphed their dicks on the tour, and when you get to see them inside; it's a regular Joe's dick..
And not only that, those sites that I go for free; like Gay Super Cocks and Soap Boys HAVE EXACTLY the same fucking models as on first site....
So, I was basically cancelling my membership within 7 minutes.
And to pay $ 39.95 monthly for this and loads of STRAIGHT content is just beyond being reasonable....
you would think they would at least morph the cocks in the member area :-/
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Originally Posted by basschick
LOL.
some sites actually do... but then it's just too obvious:)
This issue has been a challenge for us. We've always made the decision to be completely honest in our banners and marketing, and as a result, we have exceptionally low chargebacks and high member satisfaction, but we also haven't been comfortable offering pay-per join deals in part because I've been warned so much about fraud.
And more recently, we've noticed that members interests seem to have changed; whereas before, they were totally satisfied with solo content, now they want more 2 way and 3 way content. Ditto more video vs stills. We have about 50+ models, but probably half of them have been still content only and this is one of the biggest upgrades we are working on... lots more video content. I suspect this will have a strong effect on retention (along with a facelift to the members area) which, we hope, will allow us to offer a pay-per-signup deal that is attractive.
We've also toyed with ways of funding the PPS through marketing upsells, consoles, other products, etc, but have preferred to focus on a great user experience, and for the most part that seems to be working, so we haven't put a lot of energy into a different model.
As we get closer to launching our new affiliate program, we'll be seeking input from affiliates on what tools they most want, and what site features they most think will help surfers decide to actually join, but I think we probably also make more use of input we receive from our members than most webmasters do... and I'm hoping that this, combined with input from affiliates will make a great partnership between us and our affiliates.
It always amazes me how many site operators don't put the extra energy in -- it really isn't that much -- to listening to members and to affiliates, and producing what people want instead of what the site owner thinks will sell. A shitty site might convert in the short term, but word does get out, and both affiliates and members eventually avoid the site when complaints become widespread.
I dunno. Maybe there's something that AJ and I just don't get, but we've felt that a good product with honest marketing and payouts is the best path to long term success.
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Originally Posted by boyfunk
Ditto and how many rip off artists have we seen come and go in this industry? After a while people catch on and don't do business with them but they can be convincing at times! :pirate:
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Originally Posted by SnowBoy
I guess this thread really doesn't apply to afiliate program i advertise for. I am selling a FREE membership so can't really rip off someone if it is free. Not to mention that they give you a ton of content for your free membership so their shouldnt be any complaints.
They pay $40 - $80 a FREE signup w/credit card. so you can make really good money with them. The site does consist of upsells (pay per minute on cam) BUT you also get access to thousands of hours of videos and countless #'s of pics, so that alone is better then most pay sites.
I know what you guys are saying though, I have advertised membership sites in the past and have owned a few. The big sponsors who pay a lot per a paid join are only making money from a massive amounts of volume. I know a lot of surfers are getting more and more leary of joining membership sites, especially ones with high fees because of poor quality members area and having to spend hours fighting the charge to get their money back.
some free programs shave. some bill the members when/if they use the member services. some free programs bill after 12 or 24 hours.
as far as how free programs can treat their members poorly, they can cover them with popups if they don't join, and drown them in popups if they DO join. they can install dialers that the people can't get rid of, or they can install spyware or toolbars or all sorts of things. they can still not actually provide the content promised in the tour.
you know what i REALLY don't understand? when one builds a tour, and it sells, one is in a very good position to know exactly what the members want - they want what is on the tour. why not just give it to them and enjoy the rebills?
To add....
Purchased membership to malesupersite.com......... $ 4 something for 3 day trial.... you're suppose to get 16 mega sites for the price of one....
so when I got into members area... they had like links to all those sites + links to straight pussy sites, which is just beyond my perception of gay site... why would I even want that pussy sites there??
ok, needless to say is that I got lost in all those text links, totally unorganized site, especially when one knows that it's year 2005 and it's no that hard to get a good design...
Basically all those 16 sites are totally identical... those promises of 10000's of photos end up as some 9 leased photo galleries and most of them are from those reality sites!!! and also among these galleries can be found also pussies (again).... nothing original, nothing new, and absolutely nothing innovative....
a plus to this might be access to those reality sites, which I'm not a fan of at all... but some might be
So either you choose Ebony, Asian or any other niche you end up with same galleries all over again - so on ebony site you get absolutely no black guy galleries, but instead there's plenty of twink galleiries... which I don't quite get why?
ofcourse there are lots of leased videos again, but nothing shocking....
very dissapointed.... and this is from one of the big banenr sponsors on gaywidewebmasters TopBucks...
As a user who's seen better sites I'd immediatly end rebills (which I have), as a webmaster I would promote those reality sites just for the payouts...
TopBucks you've got plenty of $$$$ CASH $$$ invest some in quality content!