argh! my free site sucks!!!!!!!!

after not making a free site for years and years, i tried my hand at one. i looked at what was out there on the link lists i wanted to post at, and i saw sites that were much more aggressive than what i made, but i wanted to get posted and the rules and what i saw didn't always agree. so i went fairly conservative.

i made my site, it got posted, and after 1200 hits from JUB, i sent a whopping 30 hits to one sponsor, and 30 hits to the other. YUCK!!!!!!!!

are there any free site masters out there?

If you post the url here I am sure we can all take a look and give you some help. :)

Mark

i'm embarrassed to even show it to people after its performance...

http://jackingit.com/jog/

btw, do you think these lists would allow text links? some said not, but the recips look awful - and i worked on them.

I attended a freesite at the Phoenix Forum, it was led by the guys who run this straight freesite: http://www.atkingdom.com/kingdom1b.htm

I was so impressed with these guys. They were so smart and seem to base the placement and selection of every picture and piece of text on research. And they said their free site generates about 50-60 sales a day for their paysite, so I guess they're doing something right.

The one thing that the said is that you've got to build the freesite and update it consistently. You probably won't get much off it in the beginning. But if you update it regularly and always on the same day, you'll begin to build a large bookmarking base.

Another point: don't overpromise and under deliver.

Another point: the TGP model gives surfers too many free pictures. With 16 pictures, you've pretty much give the surfer enough to cum on. Their freesites only have 6 pics per gallery.

I don't know much about freesites myself because I haven't ever done one, but these guys impressed me enough to think about starting one.

dzinerbear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

The one thing that the said is that you've got to build the freesite and update it consistently.

---

Hmm.. Thats a new one on me.

Free sites are generally a collection of 20-30 pics, thrown on 3 gallerys and linked together with a menu page and a warning page thrown on the front which has recip links on it.

Freesites should really never be updated.. EVER!

Build, submit, forget. Thats the whole point of free sites, mass sites generating mass traffic.

Regards,

Lee

That's one approach, I guess Lee. These guys decided to create a more permanent freesite that gets updated. They decided against the TGP model because they didn't want to give away that much content on one model. And I'd say they're definitely onto a good thing because their company employs 17 people, so they're pulling in the bucks.

These guys really blew me away.

dzinerbear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

That's one approach, I guess Lee. These guys decided to create a more permanent freesite that gets updated. They decided against the TGP model because they didn't want to give away that much content on one model. And I'd say they're definitely onto a good thing because their company employs 17 people, so they're pulling in the bucks.

These guys really blew me away.

dzinerbear

---

Michael,

That site you posted previous ISNT a free site, its a hub site. That is why it is regularly updated.

Free sites are nothing more than what Patti posted, a bunch of galleries thrown on a navigation page and a wanring page at the beginning with recip links on it.

The main difference between a 'hub' and a 'free site' is that a free site, is built, submitted and forgotten about whilst a 'hub' is maintained regularly and, should link to ALL of your TGP galleries and free sites in addition to any aen/avs sites you have and paysites you own in addition to your sponsors.

Regards,

Lee

Lee,

tomato ... tomahhhhhhto, I guess.

The guys running the ATK Galeria are calling it a free site and they were running a seminar about freesites. So I was just reporting what I heard. And just because a freesite traditionally was a stand-alone, throw-away site that's never updated doesn't mean it has to stay that way. Just because we always "did" doesn't mean we always have to.

I think of freesite more that you don't have to pay to see any porn rather than how it's constructed or how big it is. ButI guess in a strict sense of the word "freesite" as defined by people who run link lists and accept "freesites" for listings, the ATK Galeria wouldn't be considered a "freesite." But don't discount the wisdom because the vernacular is different. These guys make a shitload of money and send a ton of traffic to their main sponsor, which just happens to be their paysite.

Maybe basschick's freesite "sucked" and didn't get her the results that she hoped for because surfers are tired of stand-alone, never-updated freesites with 20 pics. I know they're tired of TGP thumbs that don't click to galleries and AVS galleries with three pics and a join script.

dzinerbear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzinerbear

Lee,

tomato ... tomahhhhhhto, I guess.

The guys running the ATK Galeria are calling it a free site and they were running a seminar about freesites. So I was just reporting what I heard. And just because a freesite traditionally was a stand-alone, throw-away site that's never updated doesn't mean it has to stay that way. Just because we always "did" doesn't mean we always have to.

I think of freesite more that you don't have to pay to see any porn rather than how it's constructed or how big it is. ButI guess in a strict sense of the word "freesite" as defined by people who run link lists and accept "freesites" for listings, the ATK Galeria wouldn't be considered a "freesite." But don't discount the wisdom because the vernacular is different. These guys make a shitload of money and send a ton of traffic to their main sponsor, which just happens to be their paysite.

Maybe basschick's freesite "sucked" and didn't get her the results that she hoped for because surfers are tired of stand-alone, never-updated freesites with 20 pics. I know they're tired of TGP thumbs that don't click to galleries and AVS galleries with three pics and a join script.

dzinerbear

---

Michael,

I completely understand what you are saying and, in part you are correct, free is free however, in the adult industry, certainly for the last 10+ years a 'free site' has been exactly what i have mentioned above, a site that you build, submit and forget about.

The whole purpose of a 'free site' in 'industry' terms, is that it is a quick way to generate traffic en mass and it needs no 'maintenance' after it has been uploaded.

The site which you posted a link to, in 'industry' terms, is a HUB nothing more, nothing less, a privately owned 'link list' if you want that contains links to nobodys but the owners and sponsors sites whatever type of site they may be.

Vernacular aside, the 'meaning' of 'free site' in the industry in terms of 'building' them and in terms of 'marketing' them are two different things, lets not get caught up in the literal or perceived meaning of the words.

Another way of lookin at a 'free site' is to think of it as an AEN site, without the AEN script.

Regards,

Lee

I'm an AVS guy, but I've thought about doing some freesites too. I've been researching them by surfing some of the big link lists.

And basschick, your site looks pretty much like everything that is out there. The only problem I see is that the images are screen caps and that doesn't flatter the paysite that you are promoting.

I think Michael's outside-the-box thinking is probably the wave of the future. Just because something has always been done a particular way, does that mean we can't try something a little different? The major handicap is trying to get LL owners to change. :(

Again my standard disclaimer:

I am SOOOOO not an expert!

OK, my one thought is it seems the content and the sponsor links are too distinct. I might add more links along the lines of "Click here to see Guy shoot his load" Or "Click to watch Guy's real amateur video."

I did notice the ATK Galleria has great design: simple, clear and professional, and excellent images. I wonder if tweaking the design and using at least some non-video caps would help.

I also didn't see a 2257 notice on your site and was wondering about that.

basschick,

I don't know if this is a part of your problem, but the big "Click here ..." link at the bottom of this page: http://jackingit.com/jog/1/ is timing out for me.

dzinerbear

I'm diggin much of what Michael's said here.
If how free sites have been done and how everyone's been doing them aren't really cuttin' it anymore, switch things up a bit!

Basschick, you can use a text link instead of a banner link to JUB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basschick

btw, do you think these lists would allow text links? some said not, but the recips look awful - and i worked on them.

---

i find it funny that the people holding a freesite seminar don't know what a freesite IS *lol*

Dzinerbear - thanks. that is not good news as it is my own paysite.

had the freesite been done correctly, i should have had more hits BEFORE the surfers ever got to the galleries. i am using links that click quite well on galleries - but it is obvious that this is not galleries...

Xstr8guy - thinking outside the box can be good, but many times i've seen it bring in less money than thinking inside the box. lots of people make large amounts of money on freesites, but they know things i was unsure about - mostly things like whether you can have a fpa between the enter link and the main page, and which link sites accept a text link.

also bec tells me that i should have my warning page banner up higher - above the recips. and she says that most link lists allow some unlinked sales text, too. i am still nervous that some link sites will turn down such a site, but i guess i'll find out.

Patti - just use as much sales text as you want! Get the top of that page filled with hot selling text and then your site banner. That is premium ad space for YOU - and those recips should be well down the page.

All the linklist wants to see is that their recip shows up before your Enter link and that you have the requisite number of "free" pics inside.

Other things they don't want is forced through a fpa when entering your main page when coming directly off the index/warning page. And most limit 2 banners on the main page and 3 outbound links to your other free sites and a hub site.

In other words, it shouldn't look like a banner farm.

You can force a surfer thru an fpa from your main page when you send them off to another free site or your hub site ... that isn't forcing anyone landing on your index to go thru one and is perfectly acceptable.

and yet i have definitely seen link lists that say they allow a single passthrough page. but in order to do this, you would have to put together a list of link links that do allow it - i'm sure a lot don't.

i'm very used to working with tgps, and a lot of tgps require the recips in the upper 1/3 of the page. but as you pointed out last night, most link sites simply require that their link be above the enter link - so that does leave a lot of real estate on the top of the page to play with. i will definitely be doing that next.

Link sites allowing a passthru are becoming a rarity. Too many webmasters were using them and then not providing a "no thanks show me the galleries" link at the bottom of the page once their site got listed ... so due to abuse by a few, the rules have changed for the many.

I personnaly like the recips on the warning page


TITLE


Warning text


Recips table (best to have 6-8 recips only or less, but never just one or two)


ENTER - EXIT


for JUB and Billy's I'm ok with a passthrough page as long as the ad isn't huge and there are top and bottom links to move on to the galleries and it's not too tiny. I had some webmasters submit a site with a huge FPA and really tiny "Continue...." text that was very hard to find

wow I was going to give some input but everyone has put in some great stuff here. I would just suggest having alot more free galleries and maybe even some hosted galleries on the page. :)

Mark

A free site is only allowed so many outbound links Mark ... that's why on the main page she should show 2 banners - one to her paysite and one to another she's upselling as an affiliate. Her galleries can show whatever banner it is that the gallery represents.

On her main page she can include 3 text links. Once she gets a circle of free sites happening and ideally a Hub site made ... her links on her main page of a free site would go to:

1. the previous site in the circle - forcing them thru an fpa first that links at bottom to the main page for that free site

2. her hubsite - again a forced fpa viewing before they get the link to the main page (don't link the "no thanks" to your index for that site -but go directly to the main page of that site, they already saw a warning when they dropped into the free site to begin with)

3. the next site in the circle - again thru an fpa that links to that sites main page

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bec

A free site is only allowed so many outbound links Mark ... that's why on the main page she should show 2 banners - one to her paysite and one to another she's upselling as an affiliate. Her galleries can show whatever banner it is that the gallery represents.

On her main page she can include 3 text links. Once she gets a circle of free sites happening and ideally a Hub site made ... her links on her main page of a free site would go to:

1. the previous site in the circle - forcing them thru an fpa first that links at bottom to the main page for that free site

2. her hubsite - again a forced fpa viewing before they get the link to the main page (don't link the "no thanks" to your index for that site -but go directly to the main page of that site, they already saw a warning when they dropped into the free site to begin with)

3. the next site in the circle - again thru an fpa that links to that sites main page

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Good advice Bec. I haven't done many free sites so I have lots to learn too. :)

Mark

basschick, let us know about your results. It doesn't seem like we have any resident experts on the subject. We all could learn a lot from your experiences. I'll put up some freesites tomorrow and share as well.

Oh, none of the big straight/mixed LL's accept FPA's before content... at least none that I know of. Maybe the gay LL's do, I don't know.

Oh god, I didn't see the second page of this thread before I replied. I see Bec is our resident freesite expert. Sorry Bec!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Oh god, I didn't see the second page of this thread before I replied. I see Bec is our resident freesite expert. Sorry Bec!

---

LOL... glad you added that! I was thinking, "man I really fucked up with the information!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bec

LOL... glad you added that! I was thinking, "man I really fucked up with the information!"

---

Lol, I'm so sorry! I totally missed the second page where you shared the REALLY good advice. I'm going to try to put it into practice tomorrow.

Btw, are all freesites so graphically barren? Lol. It seems like the majority have no style or pizazz. Is it taboo to try to spice them up a bit?

Also Bec, what is a good full-size image to use. I use 700-800px on my AVS sites and I'd rather not give the freesite surfers images that big. And can the full-size images be displayed on html pages with or without banners?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

Lol, I'm so sorry! I totally missed the second page where you shared the REALLY good advice. I'm going to try to put it into practice tomorrow.

Btw, are all freesites so graphically barren? Lol. It seems like the majority have no style or pizazz. Is it taboo to try to spice them up a bit?

Also Bec, what is a good full-size image to use. I use 700-800px on my AVS sites and I'd rather not give the freesite surfers images that big. And can the full-size images be displayed on html pages with or without banners?

---

The freesite needs to load fast - same concept as the gallery for a tgp. You have a very short time frame to push the site ads in their faces before they hunt for the enter link. That warning page is every bit as important for selling your sites as what you put on the main and 2 gallery html's. This is that area of marketing where ugly sells. For some reason, the more amateurish these look the better, believe it or not. And since they are so skimpy in the text dept. - and needing to be spidered - the site title and entry links, etc. should really be text based rather than on a fancy graphic.

If you DO want a nice animated "Enter Here" type deal, fine, but add a text link under it as well. You can do a simple fancy text looking header graphic for a little punch, just keep it something small - 15-50 kb max and add on an alt tag with the site title... or even take one pic and toss the site "title" onto it for a little more site branding - pop it to a 2 column table and put the sales text next to it at the top of the page.

On the using html for the gallery pic pages - there's a type of tgp that allowed this and it was referred to as TGP2. They originally got going in an effort to reduce the number of "free pics" being presented to the surfer. The large pics were on an html page - galleries only allowed 5 pics total, and you could ad a banner and add more sales text to the large pic page as well. Unfortunately, every link I had about TGP2 building and the sites that accepted them seem to be defunct. I'm really sorry to see this didn't get the support, as it was started as an effort to reduce the amount of free porn given away everyday.

So for now, we're stuck abiding by free site rules where the pics are just linked from the thumbs and not on an html page.

As to pic size - I totally agree about not giving surfers free hi res material. Since I like to build free sites and be able to also take those same galleries and make a copy that can be submitted - I just have my galleries satisfy most tgp rules at the same time.

Minimum 15 pics - I make my big pictures to fit between 550-600 on long side and come in around 41-60kb max file weight. Thumbs are never smaller than 90 pixels on short side - and come in around 5kb. Of course if you use something like 150 squares - those thumbs going to bump up a bit weight wise. I usually use some text with a link at top of the gallery page, with maybe a banner either mid page or as the closer link.

I use a Max of 3 outbound links to the sponsor site on the gallery. This way I have a freesite that meets the linklist rules as well as 2 galleries I can clone, add 3 outbound recip links (one recip is always to my hubsite btw), stay within the 6 links total allowed, and send them out knowing they meet the rules of even the most persnikkity tgp.

Of course if you have a backlog of galleries you've already submitted, just start sorting them by "category/niche" into a bunch of folders for a freesite grouping that you can resuse those in. Make your index and main pages for a group of threes sites that all fit a particular niche. Now go ahead and put on about 6 site recips you know you want to submit em to on the warning page. On the main page add three text links under a line saying More Free Porn ... back and forward link the 3 free sites you just made so they create a circle (moving them thru a fpa)/add em to your hub under your free site links, add links to the galleries to your tgp rotator database or just add a link if not using a script... and start submitting them. (Note: middle link on every main page always go to your hub site thru an fpa!)

You now have 3 free sites out on up to 18 link lists (if you use 6 dif ones for each site), 6 total galleries you can submit, 3 new free sites to add to your hub site and 6 new galleries you can show the surfer off your hubsite. If you're running a paysite ... you now have 6 galleries that could be offered as fhg's (after YOU submit them once of course!) ... 6 sets of sized content and thumbs that can get zipped up and offered as a zip download for them to make their own ... banners that you made to promo the paysite now become additional promo material you can add for the affiliates to fetch. That one little freesite group does a LOT of work if handled right.

When your 2nd group of three is ready, go back to the last site you did in the 1st grouping of 3 - have the 3rd link on the main page move to the first site in the next group and the last site's 3rd link in 2nd group links to first site in first group. A surfer can now move thru 6 freesites, but need to go thru 6 fpas to do it too!

Repeat this as you add a new group. If you setup your freesites into clusters of niches, you'll quickly be able to filter your traffic and present them the types of sites they really want to see. (IE: first group of 3 fits Uncut Cocks, 2nd group of 3 fits Watersports, 3rd group of 3 fits Ebony and so on.)

A good plan is to figure out 6 categories/niches and make a 18 site circle with them. Make your FPA so that it features an ad for each niche - which also helps to filter the surfer to his porn choice.

I have no idea if this program any good - found it just now again when trying to locate those tgp2 sites: TGP Gallery Maker

It supposedly builds the galleries, submits them like the Advanced Submitter program and also helps with doing the free sites. Worth a look since it's free to download now. If anyone has it or tinkers with it - give us some feedback.

You know i just have to say this...

Some of the replies in this thread made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Its amazing how far some of you have come in the last 12 months so far as the amount of knowledge you have gained.

Actually, i lie, not just in this thread, in various threads as of late a lot of people who 12 months ago didnt know what or how to do something learned and are passing that knowledge on to others.. Kudos to you all for sharing the information :thumbsup:

Regards,

Lee

Yes, it's wonderful actually.
And it was great to see Bec back here full force. I've missed here.

Now, if I could just get you guys to admit that just because a freesite used to X,Y,Z doesn't mean it always has to be X,Y,Z. This business changes fast and as quickly as you think you have one thing figured out, it morphs into something else. I was disappointed that everyone was focusing on the actual word "freesite" instead of trying to embrace the concepts I ws trying to put forth. It was like you were all saying, "Well ATK Galeria isn't a freesite, so we're just not going to listen to what you're saying."

Nevertheless, this has been a great thread, I sure have learned a lot. Thanks for all the tips, Bec.

dzinerbear

I don't think it was that no one wanted to listen Michael ... it was just how the term freesite gets used to describe so many different types of sites we use to market with, that some here were saying that what ATK has is in essense a hub site to show off their mini "free sites" ... they even say that right on the front page: "ATKINGDOM's Network of Adult Free Sites Visit all of our free sites for weekly updated, high-quality content" ... with the table of sites underneath becoming their little free sites with the free pics and upsell to the paysite.

What I think happened is folks hit your link, went Oh, it's a hub ... and clicked off again without studying the model to see what you were sharing. And I admit, I did the very same thing - the first time. Since you are obviously upset, I decided to go back again and try to see what you saw.

I now see WHAT they are doing that is different and certainly deserves a longer look by most everyone here. In a nutshell, their mini free sites are the equivalent to one or two page tours in many many ways, and a "fresh" idea in how to utilize the hubsite/freesite concept to get folks to that paysite. It's definately a twist in the marketing by presenting it on a hub like that. I have seen tours utilize those same "features" out front to lure folks to join, but not done quite this way away from the actual paysite. And yes, they are indeed updating those minisites.

So did I see what it was you wanted to show us?

Halleujah.

One of my core issues is the more I feel I'm not being listened to, the more agitated I become. And I was agitated because listening to these ATK guys at the forum was a kind of big light bulb experience for me. (Every conference I have at least one of these.) They were really intelligent, one of the guys used to be some big marketing big wig for GMC Trucks. They appeared organized, they knew their stuff, they know through research that pics of women holding their left breast in their right hand get more clicks that pics of women holding their right breast in their left hand. They put up something like 16 new galleries a day and send a lot of clicks and sales to their main product.

So I was excited to be able to share this incredible example for learning with everyone. But everyone was just getting hung up on what they know a freesite to be. And I couldn't understand why people aren't open to the idea that a freesite could evolve into any number of different things. I mean, shit, for intents and purposes UB is not an AVS site in the traditional sense of what we knew AVS sites to be back in 1997-99. UB is more of a paysite than an AVS site, but it uses MANcheck instead of a membership system of its own. So it's still an AVS site.

Bec, I'm glad that you looked deeper into that site because I think it's an incredible marketing opportunity. And regardless of what anyone calls it, I'll be doing one. Thanks again for your input.

Cheers
dzinerbear

Bumping this up so Mamakity can find the tutorial in here!

thanks sweetcheeks!