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Which sounds better?
When a potential male model sees an ad for adult modeling, which do you think they'll respond to more favorably? $100 per hour or $500 per session?
Just keep in mind that at this point they don't know what a "session" entails. We're just trying to figure out which of the two has more initial impact.
Thanks guys
not one response? come on guys...just pick one or the other. You don't have to go in depth :)
Thanks!
we never put prices in our ads, and we get plenty of responses. i think that if you're looking for amateurs, that $500 per session would be much more appealing...
Snowboy,
I'll help you out. Don't EVER say you pay per hour. This will be a big mistake, and cause you a big headache with every shoot. Here's what happens: Model takes his time, can't get it up, needs time to look at porn to get hard... meanwhile you're waiting. 15 minutes goes by. 30 minutes go by. 45 minutes go by. "Oh look at the time, it's been 3 hours! Where's my money? What, only $300? You fucking asshole. It took us 4 hours and you SAID you paid $100 an hour! Scumbag!"
Let's just say I make it EXTREMELY clear to the model that I pay per *session* and we'll go ALL DAY if that's what it takes. But *generally* it takes 4 hours depending on YOU. This means if they can't get it up, tuff shit. They still get paid when they follow through with the contracted work. BTW, I tell them that on the phone before they even meet me. No confusion here. And if they feign confusion, I repeat verbatim what I mentioned on the phone.
Lastly, don't pay more than you absolutely have to. The rule of thumb is people will either participate in this business or won't. It's not a matter of money, although they'll tell you it is. The truth is, their car is about to get reposessed or they're gonna get evicted from their apartment, and they'll do whatever you want for whatever you pay, as long as it's decent. I get all my models for $300 for 4 hours of work. Easy way to explain your rates is by simply stating "I don't make the decisions around here, I'm just the photographer. My boss has only given me $300 to pay the models." This makes it impossible for them to manipulate you, which is what will happen if you ever hint that you're the one calling the shots.
Never pay a model cash. These are desperate people you're dealing with, and they'll rob you blind when you turn your back on them during a shoot. I had a couple guys steal my checkbook and model releases about 6 months ago. Fortunately I had their ID's on my camera and filed a police report, but that still didn't get my releases back. Moral of the story: Write them a check, and don't even blink if you need to cancel it. If you're equipment is gone, you know where it went.
Anyway, hope this helps.
wow, xenigo - you have such different experiences than we do. our models are mostly pretty nice. a lot of actual college students and such. all are friendly, most are available if we want to shoot again.
we pay per hour... never had a real problem. we tell them they must show up ready to shoot (hair, clothes, etc) and if they can't get it up, we pay them a cancellation fee and send them home. a couple even came back to try again - with much better success ;)
Most of the guys I work with are nice too, but keep in mind I've worked with hundreds of guys over the past few years. In that bunch, there's been a bunch of shady characters. My policy is that it's better to be safe than sorry, and the bottom line is that adult performers are not the upper echelon of society. My experience with models really went south when I started targeting the 'thugs' I've been shooting recently. I mean, there's really nothing worse in the world than these guys. They hate me with a passion. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Yet, there are some exceptions to every rule.
Edit: Also, for the most part I work by myself. This sets a perfect scene for them to pull all the manipulative BS they live to put people through. When I work with an assistant, or more recently, a bodyguard... I have no such problems. Go figure. :)
i usually use the word "session" ( average $150.00 to $200.00 an hour ) versus "hour" because in most models minds they figure the longer they stay the more they'll get and this turns into long lazy shoot.
i don't usually work alone and everything is pretty "timed" , if for some reason the model is unable to complete the session i stop it and reschedule ( the model is given a "partial" and the "balance" upon completion )
for me "pornstars" and "rising stars" are the hardest to work with because they already have an idea of what they want and not what your looking for so i generally pass. ( no shots from the left! , no low angles! , i want to wear this! )
hope something in the above is helpful!
sincerely ~ ..."you better work! , supermodel! , work!".. :beauty:
thanks you guys for all the great advice.
xenigo, totally know what you mean. Most of the guys i work with are very nice guys. But there are still some that i really fear! :)
I don't care how nice a guys is, but when he's telling me that he doesn't have his cell anymore because the cops confiscated it, next to slapping him with a charge of "possession of a fire arm," i get worried. Especially when it's my second time working with them, as they know how the company works and where everything is.
Ok, about the payment structure. I know what you guys all mean when you say pay them "per session." But i seem to get away with paying less when i pay them by the hour. My shoots are usually about 3hrs, so that's $300 for the session. Whereas before i used to state $500/session in the ads, and well, that's what i paid them for pretty much the same shoot, when many of them would've been more than happy with $300 for the shoot. So yeah, i'd like to state $100/hr if that sounds as good and appealing as $500/session.
So what i'm most concerned with is which SOUNDS BETTER in an ad? If i get talent scouts to hand out "models wanted" cards, does $100/hr sound more attractive or $500/session?
I guess what i'm trying to do is "lure" in the guys who're on the fence by enticement of great pay. Hmmmm...that doesn't sound too good but it's the truth. I need my models!! :)
I think if a guy knows that he can make a quick $500, he might be inclined to apply. As apposed to $100, which sounds good, but they don't know exactly how much they could make. ??? Any thoughts?
i can't believe that you guys pay them a "cancellation fee" if they can't perform. If one of my models can't get hard or cum at the end, i send him on his way and tell him to go and get Viagra or something and we'd reschedule for another day.
For all i'm concerned, if they can't get hard or cum, they didn't perform the services that was outlined in the agreement.
although i agree that they are being paid for a service , sometimes it isn't always to the customers satisfaction.
i've had guys come in "strip/pose/jack/cum" and been totally disappointed with the finished product that didn't mean they weren't paid!
i look at it as not everyone has "control" over their bodies! , and some , especialy new to the scene need time to "warm-up"
i'd rather send them away with half to encourage them to return , versus sending them away with nothing "cementing" that image in their mind that we are all out to screw them over every chance we get!:(
sincerely ~ jim :francais:
There is some great input here. I was also told my some huge gay companies to not state that you pay hour. They told me per hour is bad mostly for the reasons already listed here.
Mark
I don't know where most of you are located, but it's a shame there aren't more studios here in the midwest. Most guys I know who have expressed interest in doing an adult photoshoot have said they would be thrilled to get payed $200 for an all day shoot. I'm talking hot guys in lots of different niches too. It's too bad I don't have a studio myself. I live right by four large colleges, so I'd have tons of content, and from reading this thread, for a lot cheaper than the average photographer.
hmmm...sounds like it's time to get your digital camera out and convert that guest/storage/garage room into a studio!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalJay
sincerely ~ ..."le presente d'studio J"... :francais:
I like what the telemarketing fake jobs advertise ! LOL
"Earn up to 500,000 a month working from home "
So maybe "Earn up to 1,000 modeling" sounds more tempting lol
We tell models that we pay $200 for the shoot...and a shoot averages around 1 hour. If they can't get it up and it goes over that time the payment is still the same...we make it clear that the payment is for the shoot...we have been shooting guys for the past 7 years and most are quite easy to work with...naturally, since they are amateurs and each person is an individual, experiences will vary...but the vast majority are great and they beg to do more shoots with us!
Lee
As we've said, never say you pay per hour or you'll end up with a huge mess on your hands. The only thing you should be saying is "We pay $300 per session." As long as that's the only thing they've heard come out of your mouth, they won't ever be expecting more. Don't state a number more than that, because 99% of the population WILL work for this amount. I've tried every number higher and lower, so I'm saving you some money. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GPallan
If you ever mention an hourly rate, this gives them all the excuses in the world to underperform and try to milk your bank account. Remember, all of them have a very distorted view of how much we make in the 'porn industry'. They strongly believe we 'must be making millions' off of them, and they don't care how much they gouge you for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiB
Just curious....do you guys always do the photo shoots first? I noticed some videos on your site (very very hot btw!!), so do you require the models to also do a video shoot for the $200? Or is that done separately, with a separate pay?
We do both the photo and the video shoot back-to-back. It takes us about 3 hrs to do both. But this way, we're always guaranteed to have a photo and a video shoot for every model.
Allan
I'm with the "per session" crowd on this one. We have 1 price we pay for solo pics, 1 price for solo video, and 1 price for hardcore (pics & video). I believe that's the best way. Works well for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenigo
cool, thanks for the great advice.
Do you really think that $300 for a three hour photo and jerkoff video shoot, is sufficient?
I mean, i've paid out $200-800 for the same 3hr shoot (solo photo and jerkoff video). But when i pay a guy $300 (i've only ever paid one guy $200 for this shoot), i think i'm getting an AMAZING deal. I think $500 is more fair for this type of shoot, but if some guys are cool with getting $300 i wont be complaining. ;)
Believe me, they're getting an amazing deal too. Where else can they make $300 in 3 hours? Not without spending the years in college getting their JD or MD. If they think they deserve more, simply explain to them that you're not authorized to pay more. Your boss won't let you.Quote:
Originally Posted by GPallan
Always do both the photos and the video in the same session. Always get the most you can POSSIBLY get out of a single photo shoot. I don't care how much a model whines about how they've got to hang out with their friends by 4pm. They're still doing the video. The reason I'm so inflexible when it comes to these terms is because they're not gonna show up if you want them back. And why would they show up if they got paid $300 for 3 hours of work before, but now you're only going to have them there for the half-hour it's going to take for the video? Definitely not worth their time. And if you pay another $300 for them to show up again, you're getting the short end of the stick.
Hey Allan, we do the video and stills at the same time (creative editing) so the entire shoot still just takes the 1 hour average. Our selling line is "where else can you make $200 for 1 hour of your time). Even though we use the 1 hour average none of the models ever watch the clock...they are all amateurs and we treat them with respect and make them feel comfortable so they leave feeling good about what they did...the process...and as I said, 90% call back asking for more work! Everyone wins...Quote:
Originally Posted by GPallan
Lee
Love your Avitar btw :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiB
This is a really interesting thread. I'm starting to shoot my own content but it's with bigger guys and they seem to be, well, a lot less demanding and alot more grateful just to be a "model". Sometimes, they do it just for fun and don't want to get paid. I never pay more than $50 for a set. Some guys just want to play around with me which is fun too. I realize my content is very niche oriented (bigger,bear,cub,husky) but I am very grateful that most of the guys are so laid back and easy going and horny !
To answer the original question - I'd have to say $500 is more appealing. I've read that alot of photographer pay by the half day. When they get comfortable with the model, they pay full days.
yeah, but i would advertise $500 per shoot if most of your models don't actually make $500 per shoot.
Huskyhunks - our amateur guys mostly do it for the fun of the experience. they find it makes them very horny to masturbate in front of a camera.
bigger guys is a sweet niche. i hope we'll be seeing your content in a paysite with an affiliate program!
I gotta agree with Basschick on this one.
Purely from a marketing standpoint....
'$500 per shoot' sounds like a much better deal than...
'$100 per hour'
More money in an ad = more chance of people responding.
You never see home work advertised as $0.02 per envelope ;)
Regards,
Lee