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I just stumbled on this website: CRBCompany.com
These guys buy your chargebacks for cash and persue them via legal means. Has anyone heard of them or does anyone use a similar service? I have only had 2 chargebacks this year so I am not sure that this is for me, but it may be of interest to others with bigger paysites.
cheers,
Luke
I actually wrote an article Selling Your Chargebacks a few months ago on this exact subject
I've seen them around at shows, but I think it's kind of a sleazy practice. If a customer goes to the trouble to call their credit card company for a chargeback, they probably have a good reason for wanting one. Sure, I suppose there are scammers in this crowd. But to force someone to reverse their chargeback through the harassing calls of some collections agency, I think is just contributing to the bad taste many people have in their mouths about this business.
If someone isn't happy with your site, shouldn't you just say, "here's your money, sorry you didn't like it, let me know if there's anything else I can do." Don't we have enough trouble with VISA without now having surfers calling VISA saying they got a harassing call from a collector?
dzinerbear
when we had a shemale paysite, ALL our chargebacks were fraudulent. i talked to the guys on the phone - mostly they didn't want their wives to know that they spent a month or two surfing every day for shemales.
we never had one single chargeback because of a real stolen card. want to find out if their cards are stolen? ask for the police report number. every time, the guys admit that they didn't want their wives/bosses to know.
ibill used to refuse to give refunds on trials, but ccbill and epoch reps say that it's better to do a refund than a chargeback - amen! considering how easily our main processors give refunds, there is NO reason to do a chargeback except when you have something to hide.
i can't see why it's sleazy to get moneys that are legally owed to you.
And CRB Company will not even attempt to get a fraudulent chargeback - only those that "I didn't do it", etc. Afterall, you sold them a service / product.
I have spoke to a few guys doing this, it seems like a good way to cut down on one of your outgoings but to be honest as everyone here has a chargeback rate of less than 1% its not really worth the amount of hassle it will bring!Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Bryant
basschick, thanks for clarifying at least one situation. But I guess my position isn't really changing. With credit card companies demanding such strict chargeback ratio, my question to webmasters and website owners is always: Would you rather be right, or would you rather be in business? Yes, these guys used your site, yes they used their bandwidth, yes what they're doing is wrong, but is it worth potentially losing your processing ability. And do you really need these guys calling back VISA and complaining even further about you.
Seems to me if she-male sites are that much bother, maybe a better solution would be to stop making them. I think a lot of gay sites experience the same thing that closeted husband don't want their wives knowing they were looking at guys, and I'm sure a lot of straight sites have a lot of surfers that just didn't want their partners to know they were looking at porn. It seems to be an element of our business.
How does this whole selling your chargebacks work? Seems to me if you've got guys who don't want their wives to know they've been surfing your site that you're going to make a huge enemy when the collections guy starts calling. Because we all know that collections people will say or do just about anything to get you to cough up the money. So its only a matter of time before you've put into motion the thing the surfer is most afraid of. Am I wrong? Am I mixing this selling chargeback scenario with regular collections?
dzinerbear
Maybe tranny and gay sites should also have a straight site included with their memberships so they can show the wife that they are "normal" after all. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
Kinda off topic, but when I was married, my wife busted my while I was wanking to a straight porn movie. I fumbled to shut it off just in time but she saw the boxcover and it said "Buttman's Adventures in Rio" or something like that. She was upset but she insisted that we watch it together. After a few minutes she said with relief, "Oh, I thought with a name like 'Buttman' that it was a gay movie." Lol.
A chargeback should be a drastic measure or a measure of last resort. I think it's far to easy to manipulate the process. I did a chargeback back when AOL was compuserve because it was fraudulent. They asked me ten thousand questions, did several inquiries, called a few people, basically the burden was for me to prove that AOL did something fraudulent. I proved my case and they got the chargeback. But... in our industry, all a member has to do is lie to get their money back. It's not enough to just get a refund.
As far as the practice of selling chargebacks, if there's a penny to be made, someone will find a way exploit it to their advantage.
basschick, that is a great example, I would see using this type of service if I was running a lot of chargebacks, frankly I don't really care if the surfer feels upset and changed their mind about the membership charges, the fact is they got in and the site provided the service it promised. Of course like I menitoned, I have only had 2 chargebacks this year so I am not in the position to start chasing these people down yet.
Jim, that story is hilarious, in a hindsite kinda way!
cheers,
Luke
Dzinerbear - this wouldn't change the chargeback ratio either way. we're talking about people who charged back unnecessarily and once again, all ANY customer has to do is call to get a refund from ccbill or epoch. but if they use the site, why should they receive their money back for a service they received and were satisfied with?
"exploit"?
we did a chargeback at our bank by making a phonecall and telling them which transaction it was. we didn't even want to charge back - we only wanted to find out who the transaction was with. that is how most banks do it.
this is a business, and we are in business to make money. we are not talking about collecting from people who legitimately had a reason to charge back, but from the people who did NOT. a guy who charges back after being a member of a site for three or four months, and who you can see has visited the site regularly, should NOT be allowed to get away with it. it's fraud, and if you wanted, you could report it as a criminal act.
luke, a lot of collection agencies handle this sort of thing, but if you want, i can try and find out who other people use. i used to have a list, but that was two computers ago.
thanks for the offer Patti, but right now I don't think its worth it to try to collect on only 2 chargebacks.
cheers,
Luke
*chuckle* no, probably not ;-)
and hopefully you won't see more for a loooooooooong time :)
Question: Who ended up getting fucked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xstr8guy
:)
Oh, no... she was still horribly turned off by the porn... there was no sex after that debacle. Thank god. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzinerbear
maybe you can use this technique to sell porn videos to closeted gay men :light:
cheers,
Luke
:uhoh: My bad. Exploit was a poor choice of words. I agree with the principle in what you are doing, I needed to say that if there is money to be made, people will find a way to capitalize on it. No shame in trying to make money, that's why we are all here :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by basschick
Huskyhunks - it's not about making money; it's about other people taking away the money we've already made. the members who use our bandwidth and our content, and then use their bank (by lying) to remove the money they already paid us are stealing - it's that simple.
I understand the principle. But I reiterate, do you need to be right (keep the money you're due) and set yourself down a pathway that could bring you more harm and grief (and the whole industry if everyone starts doing this) or can you expend this energy into other more positive directions?
dzinerbear
I don't see a problem with it, people think they can signup, leech content and then just say it wasn't them and get their money back.
Looks like these guys work on the same principle credit card companies and other places work, they buy "debt" then go after it.
People shouldn't get a free ride because they don't want their wife finding out they've been buying porn memberships