Is It Just Me Or Does The Industry Seem To Get Sleazier Each Day?

Im always amazed to see some of the shit that goes on in the adult industry on an almost daily basis.

Hosts fucking other hosts over, content providers fucking other content providers over, traffic brokers fucking other traffic brokers over... The list goes on.

Thats not including the information about peoples pasts you find out about during the course of your daily businesses..

Hackers, Rapists, Pedophiles, Murders, Theives, the list goes on and on.

When did the porn business become so sleazy?

Hell it used to be you could pretty much trust anyone with any amount of information and it was kept confidential, irrespective of its 'drama' factor, now it seems the one-up-manship webmasters constantly seem to want over one another is all that drives people.

A crazy world we live and work in :(

Regards,

Lee

It certainly is discouraging to see the kind of stuff that goes on, especially when you try to run a clean and respectable ship. And it's equally discouraging to know that it's always the scummy side of the business that is hauled out for examination when new laws or VISA rules are being proposed.

I wish this business were more professional in the sense that we had some organization that would allow us to police ourselves better. It would be wonderful if there were a scumbag list we could refer to before doing business with someone. But then there's always the problem of who gets to decide what scumbag is and who maintains the list.

dzinerbear

lee- i don't remember a time in this biz when you could trust just about anyone. in my opinion, it has always had that element and to me, it's not really surprising. random people start businesses every day and they don't always have the know-how and experience, let alone business ethics.
I think i'll draft a letter to my local community college suggesting a new class: Business Ethics for Porn Peddlers 101
:cheese:

it's not about porn - it's about people. arie works as far from this industry as you can get, but he sees companies take advantage, lie, and otherwise fuck with other companies and employees. overpricing and petty theft are always around. ripoffs and con artists are in every business - medical doctors who bill for services that weren't rendered, lawyers who send people to those doctors knowingly, lying about what a product is made of, overbilling hours...

i used to know a guy - seemed like a nice person, too - he got a job working for a non profit organization to help poor families get on their feet. despite his handsome salary (it really was), he was busted after six months for stealing $100,000 from the company.

some people just gotta cheat, and as long as people run companies, companies will cheat, too.

so true, patti, you are 100 percent correct. look at all of the scandals in big oil, electric, telcom, etc. we are in the process of selling our house and i am amazed at the real estate biz "behind the scenes." It is so cut-throat!

Let me give you an example of sleazy:

A while back, there was a website that was stealing content from all of us to post on their "Escort Site". The trick was that they would use our model's pictures as their escorts for hire, take the client's money, then never send the escort (because there WERE no escorts, you see)!

Well, I called them out on this board and even called a certain person who I admittedly and openly do not like... those of you who know me KNOW who I am talking about. However, out of respect for those he may do business with, I will not mention his name here. This certain escort site had most of his models on it. Obviously the escort site owner had an affinity for models from this partcular studio. Being the nice guy that I am, I called the owner of this studio and pointed out the URL and the list of models he had used from his stable. He thanked me and hung up the phone. No harm, no foul. I did my good deed for the day.

The very next week, this same person learned the title of my new DVD "Ashton's Eleven" and released a DVD with the same title.

Here's the sleazy part: there is nobody named "Ashton" in his movie. Not one single model.

It was kind of "Hey thanks Rocky for overlooking our dislike for each other and helping me realize that someone is stealing my content. I really appreciate it. Now fuck off and take both of my fists up your ass."

The only motivation to release a movie called "Ashton's Eleven" was to capitalize on our movie with the same title and to piggyback on the star-power of Ashton Ryan, the star of our movie. Not to mention trying to release the title first so that he could lay claim to it.

However, I had already trademarked the name, so this individual was forced to change the name of his release to "Ashton's 11".

I don't want to mention this person's name, but based on this post, most of you can already figure out who this guy is.

Pretty sleazy, if you ask me...

Rocky

Greetings:

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Originally Posted by BeachBoi_Rocky

I don't want to mention this person's name, but based on this post, most of you can already figure out who this guy is.

Pretty sleazy, if you ask me...

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Fine, if you're afraid to mention John Flanagan from MiamiStudio's name then I will! He's a somsbitch, everyone knows he's a somsbitch, and if someone doesn't know he's a somsbitch, they should find out before they learn the hard way.

I remember talking to Rocky about this. I had been talking with him a good bit about his new movie which he was cool enough to let me see a pre-release of. VERY hot by the way. I was blown away by it actually, especially considering it was his first.

Anyway, I was shopping around for content as always, and happened past John's site. There it was, Ashton's Eleven. I couldn't BELIEVE it. I had heard stories from a good half a dozen people about what a jackass this guy was, but talk about nerve!

Needless to say I don't plan on approaching the man about content....

Also, it's funny that Lee mentioned "hackers" as being in this industry. I use to research and track down hackers for a living. LOTS of fun getting the death threats and reading the mass smear campaigns that they'd post after I got one of their buddies arrested. Actually, it wasn't fun, it was very stressful and why I ended up selling my company and why I'm on here posting now.

I remember the first time i went on GFY. I started reading posts, and began to recognize handles that I had seen in the past. I ran them through my old databases that I still kept, and there they were. There are at least 3 regular posters on GFY that I was involved in their arrest for hacking related charges.

I actually thought it was kind of amusing, and I don't know why, but I was pretty suprised to see this was the industry they ended up in.......

I don't think it's a new phenomena having unscrupulous types in this industry. If I remember correctly, the MOB was pretty much responsible for its original commercialization and growth......

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Originally Posted by JustMe

Also, it's funny that Lee mentioned "hackers" as being in this industry. I use to research and track down hackers for a living. LOTS of fun getting the death threats and reading the mass smear campaigns that they'd post after I got one of their buddies arrested. Actually, it wasn't fun, it was very stressful and why I ended up selling my company and why I'm on here posting now.

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I thought that name sounded familiar. ;)

Greetings:

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Originally Posted by Xstr8guy

I thought that name sounded familiar. ;)

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Yeah, my last name is pretty unique, haha:

www.antionline.com/lecture/

there used to be a club in l.a. where a lot of local bands played - it was big, had good sound, and a good crowd. they were around from the 80's to the early 2000s. one night i was by the door when people i knew in a band with a big local draw played.

you may not know this, but a lot of times, bands get paid by how many people either hand in their flyer or mention them at the door - already, you can see where they probably don't get paid for everyone they bring in.

well, the owner of this club told the woman at the door NOT to write down most of the people who asked for this band so he wouldn't have to pay them. the band knew their fans VERY well, and went through the house writing down names and adding them up - turns out it was the club owner's SOP not to pay the bands 1/2 to 2/3s of the money they brought in. i overheard him talking to her, and she told me she had always had to do this if she wanted her job. after that, i saw this really DID happen regularly.

sleaze knows no particular business...

Vranesevich ... what's the origin of the name?

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Originally Posted by jIgG

what's the origin of the name?

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No idea. But based on what I know about my ancestors, which admittedly isn't much, I have a feeling it doesn't originate of this world.....

sounded a bit Serbian, their names are ending in -ich so I thought you might be from my neck of the woods :)

Lee, I'm not so sure that the people in our biz are so sleazy as people are just sleazy. Heck, I've worked with tons of people in the medical profession and can tell you about sleaze. It's everywhere, really. Porn industry is not special or any different. How many people not associated with porn have been abused, molested or raped by people not IN the biz? LOTS!

These fu**ers are our uncles, brother, fathers, sisters (yes, women are capable of this crap too). They are everywhere and there are so many that have not been caught, yet.

It's messed up. Just my .02

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Originally Posted by Mamakity

Lee, I'm not so sure that the people in our biz are so sleazy as people are just sleazy. Heck, I've worked with tons of people in the medical profession and can tell you about sleaze. It's everywhere, really.

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That's no shit. I worked in the casino industry for 10 years and there is a ton of fucking over going on. I believe that it is in every business where some people will rationalize certain behavior to get ahead. Seeing shit like that just makes me sick and I dont want to be a part of it. You just have to be cautious and watch your step.

I don't understand Lee... in your other post you said you'd sell something to people, knowing it didn't work, because someone else would do it anyway... and now you think people in our industry are getting sleazier?

I don't know you, and have absolutely nothing against you, but you're making contradictory statements here aren't you?

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I don't understand Lee... in your other post you said you'd sell something to people, knowing it didn't work, because someone else would do it anyway... and now you think people in our industry are getting sleazier?

I don't know you, and have absolutely nothing against you, but you're making contradictory statements here aren't you?

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Squirt,

No i didnt, dont put words in to my mouth.

I said i would market a product to surfers if they were actively looking for that product, nowhere did i mention id sell something i KNEW didnt work, that was YOUR perception of my reply in that thread.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Squirt,

No i didnt, dont put words in to my mouth.

I said i would market a product to surfers if they were actively looking for that product, nowhere did i mention id sell something i KNEW didnt work, that was YOUR perception of my reply in that thread.

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I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.. this is the statement I was confused about. The topic was those penis pills the thread was "Would You Promote A Product That You Know Doesn't Work?" here's the context:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMe
Well, would you be an affiliate for a product that you KNOW doesn't work, and that you KNOW your surfers will be ripped off by if you actually manage to convince them to buy it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Interesting.. You know in all honesty, as long as it was legal to do so, yes i would.

Im here to market to people and make money from that marketing, in fact, we have ALL promoted products / services that over promised and under-delivered in the past.
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As you can see by the bolded text you were asked if you would sell something you knew didn't work and you said yes. I didn't put words in your mouth, those were your words.

In another thread you said pretty much the same thing.. it was the thread titled "Penis Pills - What's Wrong With The Adult Industry" This was your post:

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"You are correct in your assement that there are 'a lot of misguided, insecure, or just plain stupid people in the world.'

Why not profit from those people? They are going to buy these products anyway, better that they make you some additional $$$ in the process than going to one of your competitors."
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The contradiction came up in your initial post in this thread where you said

"When did the porn business become so sleazy?

Hell it used to be you could pretty much trust anyone..."

I just thought it was ironic for you to say you can't trust people in the industry anymore, when you made the statements above about profiting from stupid people and that you'd promote products that you know don't work.

It's not a big deal. I'm not making moral or judgement calls about anyone. I was just pointing out the irony of the posts. :high:

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Originally Posted by Squirt

I just thought it was ironic for you to say you can't trust people in the industry anymore, when you made the statements above about profiting from stupid people and that you'd promote products that you know don't work.

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Much like how you have no problem with your processor processing for rape related site?

Strange that isnt it, how one persons values arent necessarily the same as anothers ;)

Hows you membership to that site going BTW?

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Im always amazed to see some of the shit that goes on in the adult industry on an almost daily basis.

Hosts fucking other hosts over, content providers fucking other content providers over, traffic brokers fucking other traffic brokers over... The list goes on.

Thats not including the information about peoples pasts you find out about during the course of your daily businesses..

Hackers, Rapists, Pedophiles, Murders, Theives, the list goes on and on.

When did the porn business become so sleazy?

Hell it used to be you could pretty much trust anyone with any amount of information and it was kept confidential, irrespective of its 'drama' factor, now it seems the one-up-manship webmasters constantly seem to want over one another is all that drives people.

A crazy world we live and work in :(

Regards,

Lee

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sleaze is pretty much everywhere! , and not just in the "adult-industry" , i think it just "blends" better in the adult field.

sincerely ~ jim

p.s ~ thanks for posting lee! , sorry for such a short response! , i've actually written several replies to this post! , but i feel my comments are too strong!

sincerely ..."edited for violence and abusive language!"... :goof:

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Originally Posted by Lee

Much like how you have no problem with your processor processing for rape related site?

Strange that isnt it, how one persons values arent necessarily the same as anothers ;)

Hows you membership to that site going BTW?

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You must be feeling under pressure to be changing the topic from your contradictions to rape porn sites.

Bottom line here is if you can make money from it, and it's legal, you'll sell it, no matter if it's snake oil or not. So what? I wont do that, you will. Who cares? I told you I wasn't making a judgement call, just pointing out an ironic viewpoint of how you feel our industry is getting sleazier and people are fucking eachother over, yet you'll promote stuff you know doesn't work to make money. Big deal.

Your "rape porn" diversion is a reference to this 6 page thread Verotel Processing For Gay Rape Site

I highly recomend people read it to see how your above comment is a total distortion of what is said in that six page thread. Posts were made showing that Verotel and CCBill process rape sites, and unknowingly I'm sure.

See I made my point by quoting you in your threads.. now you're throwing out inuendo. A BIG difference there Lee.

Knowing something by fact, as opposed to conjecture, is something I strive for. That's why I quoted you, and contributed to that thread on the simulated rape site where we were all judging it without seeing what the site contained. It ended up they had the models giving verbal disclaimers before and after the movie of how they were "models" and "actors" lol

According to your own logic Lee you would promote a rape site. You said the following: "Interesting.. You know in all honesty, as long as it was legal to do so, yes i would.

Im here to market to people and make money from that marketing, in fact, we have ALL promoted products / services that over promised and under-delivered in the past."

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Knowing something by fact, as opposed to conjecture, is something I strive for. That's why I quoted you, and contributed to that thread on the simulated rape site where we were all judgin it without seeing what the site contained. It ended up they had the models giving verbal disclaimers before and after the movie of how they were "models" and "actors" lol

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Conjecture and Fact?

Squirt, i didnt say anything in my reply above that wasnt a FACT you joined a gay rape site. Where is the conjecture there? Im not seeing it.

You are correct though, as long as its legal to do so, and it sells, ill promote it.

As far as that rape site you joined goes, we were informed by our lawyer that its not legal to promote in our state so, we dont promote that type of content.

Im sure there are a lot of sickos that would join a site like that to get their jollies though.

Regards,

Lee

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Originally Posted by Lee

Conjecture and Fact?

Squirt, i didnt say anything in my reply above that wasnt a FACT you joined a gay rape site. Where is the conjecture there? Im not seeing it

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Lee why be so tright as to through inuendo out there to try and prove I'm like you somehow? We are different. Give it a break. I don't know why you take offense to the points I made about your perception of things but so be it.

A couple posts in the 6 page thread:

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Originally Posted by jIgG

without seeing the content i don't think anyone knows.

but then how do we know girls or guys in porn weren't tricked into it with empty promices and lies.

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Originally Posted by Squirt

out of curiousity I just subscribed to the site. Lame. At the opening of every video the "actors" say "we are paid professional actors. Don't do this at home"

lame

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Originally Posted by Squirt

Right. We agree. Simulated rape videos aren't illegal.

Going back to the site again, we all see the disclaimer on the front of the home page. A very lengthy one. As well as a dorky disclaimer spoken by the models on video tape saying they are paid actors etc. etc.

I want to make something clear here. I don't like simulated rape, and a lot of other kinky stuff, or real hardcore S&M. I think violence, or underage persons, being associated with sexual activity is a dangerous combination. I think producing content like that can facilitate people acting out those fantasies in real life. I am only defending the site Lee attacked here because if you were going to do a site like that and cover your ass, these guys did it right, plus I like to have an informed opinion based on fact, not one made of assumptions. :thumbsup: If you were being judged, wouldn't you want to be judged that way?

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Just a few quotes from the thread.

Again Lee you throw out inuendo by your above statement. It's unfortunate you feel you have to weasle and manipulate to make it seem like I'm something I'm not :P

Just to reiterate my point, here is an email I received today from a retailer looking to carry our DVD, which is called "Ashton's Eleven"... see my eariler post for more info on this. Here is the email:

Rocky,
This just in: I got a flyer from my distributor advertising May 17th as the street date for Ashton's 11 by Miami Studios. The box cover features 7 guys, none of whom are named "Ashton."
An idea: Can you use the title if you spell it Ashton's Eleven? That's the way the real thing is spelled if I'm not mistaken.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Tom

Shady shady.

Rocky

Welcome to the club, Rocky. 4 years ago we released a title, "Tropical Twinks". Several months later here comes "Nolan's Tropical Twinks" from a certain studio. LOL. Good luck on your new video, by the way!

Hey Steve! Thanks on the good luck wish! Long time no speak!

Rocky

Yeah, it's been a long time. What happened? We should start chatting more often.

I have a lot of respect for you and your work.

Definitely let's get in touch.

Yeah the industry is definetly sleazier. People fuck each over in a second for a buck and don't even give the courtesy of a reach around.

I have emailed content providers saying I want to setup content with them and never hear back. I email one affiliate program and the email bounces back every time. I just don't get it.

But then again there is those that bend over backwards for you. So there is always the 2 sides of the cake.

Mark

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Originally Posted by IntenseCash.com

But then again there is those that bend over backwards for you.
Mark

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And they are my favs..for more than one reason. ;-)