non US content producers

[basement]

i understand that there are questions regarding the new law and whether non
US content producers will be able to sell content to US webmasters. can
anyone shed any light on this for me? most of my models and i are
canadian. i'm hoping i can keep doing business with webmasters in the US.

[Dzinerbear]

Are you a Canadian?

From what I could read in the law, you are allowed to accept the government-issued photo ID that's available in your country if the model and producer are both not U.S. citizens.

"...or, a foreign government-issued equivalent of any of the
documents listed above when both the person who is the subject of the
picture identification card and the producer maintaining the required
records are located outside the United States."

This paragraph seems to move towards preventing a U.S. producer from deeking across the border to a country with less than perfect identification systems for the sole purposes of getting around the law in their own country.

Of course, there's still a big hole in that one because it doesn't prevent a U.S. citizen from hiring and financing a Canadian to act as the producer and still shoot what would be considered illegal content.

cheers
dzinerbear

[gaybucks_chip]

Of course, there's still a big hole in that one because it doesn't prevent a U.S. citizen from hiring and financing a Canadian to act as the producer and still shoot what would be considered illegal content.

I'm curious what you mean by "illegal" content... are you referring to illegal as in shoddy documentation, or illegal as meaning non-compliant with the new regs?

I was trying to figure out what the intent behind that new wrinkle actually is... i think the original proposed language was vague enough that one of the attorneys at Internext was saying that any government-issued ID (from any country) would be adequate... but there was nothing about the producer having to be from the same country as the performer.

And another question arises... what if, for example, you want to use a Czech performer, a Canadian performer, and an American? Have one producer matching each nationality you're using?

This is ridiculous.

[Dzinerbear]

Clearly, well maybe not clearly because we're talking about government, but clearly what this paragraph is intended to do is to prevent U.S. citizens from photographing minors in other countries and using the other country's "perhaps less than perfect indentifications systems" to their advantage to circumvent the entire 2257 legislation.

So as I read it, the legislation says, if Polish producer photographs Polish model in Poland, then they are required to have appropriate Polish government-issued age verification documents, not just as passport, as was previously proposed. So if the ABC card is the ID card they use in Poland to identify a person as an adult, then that's the card the producer can accept and maintain in their records.

They were trying to soften their previous unreasonable proposed demand of requiring anyone who was not an American to show up at a photo shoot with a passport as the only acceptable means of identifying and verifying non-Americans.

Now, if an American is hired to fly over to Poland to do that shoot in the above example, I haven't got a fucking clue. It's starting to sound like "who's on first."

dzinerbear

[gaystoryman]

Well to perhaps play devil's advocate here, and naturally I am merely guessing at stuff, after all I am not a lawyer nor do I want to be one, nor am I an American, nor are my sites in America, Business isn't there, and me just a dumb ass blond Canuck.

Now with that crap out of the way. It would seem to me that basically any foreign produced content, by a citizen of a foreign country really only has to follow their country's laws. However if they want to sell to the USA then they need to follow the 2257 regs as they apply to foreign produced content because of the way 'secondary producer' has been altered, making most webmasters just that.

If I produce content where the model is of age, isn't *********** or the other shit, but don't provide my USA webmaster with the required 2257 info for foreign production not much can happen to me, but the poor slob who bought it can I believe go to the nick for 5 years for not having the right paperwork...

So the way I see it is that if any foreign producer wants to sell to US webmasters they still need to comply. In addition an American coming to say Canada to shoot Canadian Models would still be required to meet those standards if the product is for use by USA webmasters.

Basically as I see it, if Joe America sets up a Canadian company, hires canadian actors, techs, photographers, and even uses a Canadian host but sells to USA citizens, his Canadian company still needs to be 2257 compliant and he is still liable being an American as well...

Now I would love to see a foreign group challenge the laws under 'restraint of trade' as well as under 'violation of soverignty rights' because most of 2257 does indeed violate various foreign privacy laws, but that is another can of worms.

What it boils down in my mind, is that all those who talk about setting up shop abroad only protect the actual production of material, but if they sell to the USA they place their countrymen at risk and themselves unless they reliquish their USA citizenship. The Feds might not come up here for me for 2257 violations, but they might if I was one of theirs... and big enough to warrant the expense involved.

anyhow just my opinion, feel free to ignore it.

Ian

[Squirt]

Are you a Canadian?

From what I could read in the law, you are allowed to accept the government-issued photo ID that's available in your country if the model and producer are both not U.S. citizens.

"...or, a foreign government-issued equivalent of any of the
documents listed above when both the person who is the subject of the
picture identification card and the producer maintaining the required
records are located outside the United States."

It doesn't say anything about being U.S. Citizens.... and your quote after that statement is correct. Example: If I'm a U.S. citizen and a producer, and I goto Canada to shoot, get all required I.D.'s , then come back to the U.S., I've followed the law.

What they are trying to avoid is people buying content online from foreign countries because the producer is supposed to be able to verify, under penalty of purgury, that the documents are a real and correct copy of the originals. If you buy online, etc. you cannot verify the originals.

These regulations make no mention of citizenship anywhere. :francais:

[Dzinerbear]

That's not how I read it, but I'm not surprised.

dzinerbear

[gaystoryman]

Well I am confused, why would a law which is designed for its citizens even need to mention citizenship? It isn't like any law passed by the US Congress can be applied to any other nation's citizen... so obviously it has to apply only to US Citizens.. therfore when it mentions 'foreign' it has to obviously refer to those who aren't US citizens.. how can anyone think otherwise?

[Lee]

Basically,

So long as you can prove the models were over 18 at the time of the shoot you have nothing to worry about.

That is in essence all these new regs mean to producers of content, you need to ensure that you have a government issued photo id of the model in question, irrespective of whether you live in the US or Outer Mongolia.

Regards,

Lee

[Squirt]

Basically,

So long as you can prove the models were over 18 at the time of the shoot you have nothing to worry about.

That is in essence all these new regs mean to producers of content, you need to ensure that you have a government issued photo id of the model in question, irrespective of whether you live in the US or Outer Mongolia.

Regards,

Lee

I agree :francais: