The "Practical part of the new 2257 Regs!

Slade · 06-06-2005, 07:46 PM

Found this post elsewhere which has some good info in it, but more importantly raised a really good point in the last paragraph I think:

"The new regulations are set to take effect on June 23, 2005.

However, The Free Speech Coalition is seeking injunctions on both the East and West Coast. These injunctions are very likely (though not guaranteed) to slow the passage of these (or some components of) laws.

In a best case scenario, the courts will uphold the Sundance vs. Reno decision regarding the responsibilities of a secondary producer and there will be no need for webmasters to keep redundant sets of model IDs.

If you are not a member of The Free Speech Coalition (http://www.freespeechcoalition.com), we highly recommend that you become one. They are our first line of defense against an administration that is hell-bent on destroying the adult online business.

Lastly, do not give into fear mongers that are looking to make a buck from this debacle: there is not an acceptable third party whom can keep your records for you (should they become necessary) and the earliest there regulations could affect you is June 23 - don’t fall victim to the profiteering that is already running rampant on the boards.

Even if the injunctions fail, the government still needs to set an agency to enforce these regulations which will delay and inspections even further than June 23rd."

Slade · 06-06-2005, 07:47 PM

So..my question after reading the above post is: WHO really is going to be responsible for the enforcement of these new regs on an everyday basis? Who actually is going to supply the manpower to come visit you and make sure you have all your docs in place?

Slade · 06-06-2005, 07:51 PM

I've got MANY questions about these new regs (as I know all of you do), but in general, wanted to ask all of you what your impression/feelings are about how soon/how well the Feds will go about enforcing these new regs.

Do you think they are just foaming at the mouth and ready to go hell bent come 6/23/05 to shut down as many sites as possible?..or

Do you think they have a few "targets" in mind that they will go after and use them as "examples" in an attempt to intimidate/scare others into either complying or shutting down?

Or..frankly..do you think this is an excercise in futility by the government and at the best simply a scare tactic with no real intention to actually enforce these new regs?

**basschick** · 06-06-2005, 07:56 PM

Slade - if you have sexually explicit images online without acting as custodian of records, it's against the law after 6/23-05. they don't get to get to you right away - only prove that you spent even one day NOT as custodian after that date.

if you decide you don't wanna be the custodian - i sure don't! - and take the site offline on june 30, and the government can find an archive of your web page - or if they save a copy - you will be in violation, even if they don't get to you till december.

Slade · 06-06-2005, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by basschick

Slade - if you have sexually explicit images online without acting as custodian of records, it's against the law after 6/23-05. they don't get to get to you right away - only prove that you spent even one day NOT as custodian after that date.

if you decide you don't wanna be the custodian - i sure don't! - and take the site offline on june 30, and the government can find an archive of your web page - or if they save a copy - you will be in violation, even if they don't get to you till december.

Basschick I understand this. But that's not my question or even one of my questions.
I'm asking

1)WHO will do the actual enforcement of the regulations
2)Do you think there will be a large jump on porn sites or just a selected few to begin with..or
3)Do you think this is all a big scare tactic and impractical to enforce.

In THEORY, I understand everything you say BC, I'm talking about the practical application of the regs.

**basschick** · 06-06-2005, 08:23 PM

they have not yet announced who will be the primary enforcers on 2257, but if you're breaking a law, your local cops can bust you if they want. this is a law, and it could end up that local, cops and sheriffs who weren't happy having a porn company in their midst may use it.

i believe i read somewhere they have some sites already in mind to test 2257. i believe they will do two things with it to start:

1. use it to beef up obscenity cases

2. i figure they'll start with 20 - 40 cases or less. i suspect half will be smaller webmasters because they'll be able to get fast convictions, or probably mostly they'll get deals going with the smaller webmasters. that way, they can develop precedents and also show that they are taking the new regs seriously.

3. i believe they will enforce it. our last attorney general was called on the carpet for not enforcing it.

**LavenderLounge** · 06-06-2005, 08:32 PM

As to the "who" of enforcement:

"Through 18 U.S.C. 2257 Congress has authorized the Attorney General to inspect records, and the Attorney General may delegate this authority to any agency deemed appropriate by virtue of the Attorney General's delegation authority under 28 U.S. C 510."

Slade · 06-06-2005, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by LavenderLounge

As to the "who" of enforcement:

"Through 18 U.S.C. 2257 Congress has authorized the Attorney General to inspect records, and the Attorney General may delegate this authority to any agency deemed appropriate by virtue of the Attorney General's delegation authority under 28 U.S. C 510."

That is the question..WHO will the Attorney General designate to enforce it.

Slade · 06-06-2005, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by basschick

they have not yet announced who will be the primary enforcers on 2257, but if you're breaking a law, your local cops can bust you if they want. this is a law, and it could end up that local, cops and sheriffs who weren't happy having a porn company in their midst may use it.

i believe i read somewhere they have some sites already in mind to test 2257. i believe they will do two things with it to start:

1. use it to beef up obscenity cases

2. i figure they'll start with 20 - 40 cases or less. i suspect half will be smaller webmasters because they'll be able to get fast convictions, or probably mostly they'll get deals going with the smaller webmasters. that way, they can develop precedents and also show that they are taking the new regs seriously.

3. i believe they will enforce it. our last attorney general was called on the carpet for not enforcing it.

I don't know if the local cops are going to be doing this, especially in light of today's Supreme Court ruling of Medical Marijuana..sounds like they may be too busy busting sick people for smoking pot.

But seriously, being a "federal" law/regs, just wondering if the locals will really be involved with the enforcement angle. Trying the cases, yes, investigating though..those who go door to door to see your paperwork? Don't think so..they are way to busy for that. It's going to have to be some bureaucrat that actually goes around checking out the paper work. Cops aren't going to be educated enuf to actually know if you're compliant or not.

Slade · 06-06-2005, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by basschick

2. i figure they'll start with 20 - 40 cases or less. i suspect half will be smaller webmasters because they'll be able to get fast convictions, or probably mostly they'll get deals going with the smaller webmasters. that way, they can develop precedents and also show that they are taking the new regs seriously.

3. i believe they will enforce it. our last attorney general was called on the carpet for not enforcing it.

Yeah..I'm sure they'll be busting someone for sure..but I really wonder if it will be the "small fry" as opposed to some of the "bigger boys"..more bang for the buck with the big boys..and they have SOO much territory to cover, that under the regs, as they are now, all it would take is ONE slip up to throw them in jail!

Slade · 06-06-2005, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by basschick

3. i believe they will enforce it. our last attorney general was called on the carpet for not enforcing it.

He may have been called on the carpet..but even Ashcroft on more than one occassion admitted that the previous regs were basically unenforceable due to lack of manpower and money.

So again another question..has that really changed in 2005?

**Lee** · 06-06-2005, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Slade

That is the question..WHO will the Attorney General designate to enforce it.

The bible thumpers

Regards,

Lee

Slade · 06-06-2005, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Lee

The bible thumpers

Regards,

Lee

I'm sure they'll get plenty of volunteers for that.
Did you read about how the Gov of Texas yesterday signed the new state abortion laws in a church?

I mean..COME ON! He's reading the new bill while people in the audience are shouting "Amen!" and "God is watching you!"

JustMe · 06-06-2005, 09:28 PM

Greetings:

Originally Posted by Lee

The bible thumpers

HAHA! Be on the look-out for Church Buses or Vans, and check the community boards to see if they're setting up a car-pool with the destination being your address!