Mr. President, WHY is the National Guard in IRAQ?

[Slade]

Not trying to make political capital out of a disastrous situation, but I knew this day would come unfortunately.

There should ALREADY be a lot more help, food, water, clothing, medical supplies and re-location efforts under way in the Gulf states than there has been. And I, frankly, am outraged that there hasn't been.

WHY hasn't it been better and more coordinated? There's plenty of food, water, and other supplies available..but the MANPOWER to distribute/move these items is NOT. Right now the Gulf states are operating at only 50% or less than normal of their National Guard manpower. Why? Because they are in frigging Iraq!

That's one of the main purposes of the National Guard..to be in your state in case of emergencies just like this one. Now other states are hurrying up and sending what they have in terms on manpower down to to the Gulf states.

And Gawd forbid that another terrible disaster hits this country as we are ill prepared to deal with a second Katrina like disaster.

[Northstar]

I agree 100%. I know it takes time to get things done but it seem like more should be being done by now. Why isn't the national guard air dropping bottled water to the stranded people in need? It is a disgrace that people have to wait this long for help in the richest country in the world.

[Bec]

I agree 100%. I know it takes time to get things done but it seem like more should be being done by now. Why isn't the national guard air dropping bottled water to the stranded people in need? It is a disgrace that people have to wait this long for help in the richest country in the world.

That's the part I didn't get -- air dropping in supplies. I'd of thought they'd have some pallets done up with water and food that could be lowered into areas they can't get to by road. What good is having 3 ships loaded with supplies arriving early next week???? They'll have everyone out by then (hopefully).

[Slade]

That's the part I didn't get -- air dropping in supplies. I'd of thought they'd have some pallets done up with water and food that could be lowered into areas they can't get to by road. What good is having 3 ships loaded with supplies arriving early next week???? They'll have everyone out by then (hopefully).

That's the sad reality of it. I think the media, demos, etc. are biding their time because it would look very partisan to suddenly attack the Prez on this issue..but this WILL come out. You have to have to manpower to air lift/drop and move all of this equipment/supplies.

I hope the south in the next few elections tells the Repubs & neo-cons to SHOVE it big time.

[Bec]

Hell -- set em up on a tarmac and let the media copters take em. They're covering places that the gov't relief teams haven't even seen yet.

[Happysucks]

<quote>NEW ORLEANS - Fights and fires broke out, rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at and anger mounted across New Orleans on Thursday, as National Guardsmen poured in to help restore order across this increasingly desperate and lawless city. “We are out here like pure animals. We don’t have help,” the Rev. Issac Clark, 68, said outside the New Orleans Convention Center, where corpses lay in the open and he and other evacuees complained that they were dropped off and given nothing — no food, no water, no medicine. </quote>

<quote>New Orleans’ Charity Hospital halted efforts to evacuate its patients after it came under sniper fire, according to Dr. Tyler Curiel, who witnessed the incidents.

The attack came as New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued “a desperate SOS” for the thousands of people stranded in an around the city’s convention center with no food or water and fading hope.

Curiel and his National Guard escorts, were returning to the hospital after dropping off patients at nearby Tulane Medical Center, when someone started shooting at their convoy of Humvees.

“We were coming in from a parking deck at Tulane Medical Center, and a guy in a white shirt started firing at us,” Curiel said. “The National Guard (troops), wearing flak jackets, tried to get a bead on this guy </quote>


Been looking but can't seem to find any link to the story of how we are not trying to help the situation, but rather, playing cards and sipping tea.

[basschick]

the republicans i have talked with already have their reasons for believing that this was all necessary. i have been told that i simply don't understand logistics, and it couldn't have been done any faster. i have been called a tree-hugger who doesn't understand that the president is doing what's best for america.

the displacement of a million people, deaths of so many, and the fact that americans are doing without basic necessities don't even enter the minds of hardcore christian rightists. they have their excuses ready so denial can continue to function for them.

That's the sad reality of it. I think the media, demos, etc. are biding their time because it would look very partisan to suddenly attack the Prez on this issue..but this WILL come out. You have to have to manpower to air lift/drop and move all of this equipment/supplies.

I hope the south in the next few elections tells the Repubs & neo-cons to SHOVE it big time.

[robin]

Well I do understand military logistics, having been in that field of operations for years -- It most certainly could have been done quite a bit faster.

[desslock]

This has nothing to do with National Guard troops being in Iraq. If there were no troops in Iraq, the sequence of events would not have played out any differently.

Perhaps if you suggest the Louisianans should turn out their representation, do you also think their Democrat Governor should be held at least as accountable? After all, Louisiana is her full time job. The "neo-cons" don't run the state.

In fact New Orleans is a town pretty much run by a Democrat machine. Despite this, I would suggest that it is not a R or D thing. It is more then anything else, a natural disaster.

I would hesititate trying to push a national RedState/BlueState lens onto New Orleans. I would remind people to realzie that Louisiana politics have always been one of the country's most colorful. In fact, there are a number of very good books for sale about Huey Long, state politics and the infamous Long subsequent dynasty.

Louisiana has always lived by its own set of rules. (that is a state that utilizes the Napoleonic legal code, for example) It's not a secret that the city's 1920s era system of dirt levys should be redone. It wasn't a secret twenty five years ago either.

I have been rattled all week watching the New Orleans news. Among other things, I was just there in June walking around Canal St, the French Quarter, etc. It is so sad. We just need to hang on and get through it. I will be happy to do what I can myself to help that beautiful city emerge into something even better.

Steve

[Slade]

A post from another board:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9160710/

TONY ZUMBADO: I've gotta tell you, I thought I'd seen it all, but just when you think you've seen it all, you go into another situation and you see something horrific. I've never seen anything in my life like this. ... I can't put it into words the amount of destruction that is in this city and how these people are coping. They are just left behind. There is nothing offered to them. No water, no ice, no C-rations, nothing, for the last four days.

They were told to go to the convention center. They did, they've been behaving. It's unbelievable how organized they are, how supportive they are of each other. They have not started any mêlées, any riots ... they just want food and support. And what I saw there I've never seen in this country.

We need to really look at this situation at the convention center. It's getting very very crazy in there and very dangerous. Somebody needs to come down with a lot of food and a lot of water. There's no hostility there ... they need support. These people are very desperate. I saw two gentlemen die in front of me because of dehydration. I saw a baby near death.

[Slade]

One other noteworthy post:

you can take military transport helicopters that have armoured protection and IMMEDIATELY fly in convoys of h20 and c-rations to place like NO convention center.

these machines are all weather 24/7 vehicles used by the us military all over the world in combat zones.

this is VERY poor form and shows a complete lack of understanding.

humans can exist for 7-14 days with no food.

they can exist only 3 or 4 days with no water, expecially since temps are in the 90's now in the gulf.
----------
and btw..mre's, which we have MILLIONS of, are sealed water tight and FLOAT!

[desslock]

Well I have lately been comparing this to my memories of 9-11. At least there you had Mayor Guilliani having press conferences, talking about where they were at in the operation, and what there was to do. At least the New York City government had some semblence of a process. This is chaos. You keep hearing how no one knows what is going on, and there is no information. Where is the chief of police? the mayor? the governor? After all, they live there and know all the local knowledge. Not a bunch of feds who live in Northern Virginia.

I visited New Orleans back in June, and you know the locals would go around and say how a force 5 hurricane could tear through their levy system if it happened... then they would sell you a "Hurricane" and send you to go walk around on the street.

And I've been hearing all summer long about how hurricanes are expected to be stronger in the Gulf for awhile. My exasperation would be more at why the people who live there and elect hadn't prepared a little better for it. But really to say that right now I think would be unfair, considering there are bodies floating around at the moment.

Much less try to allege that because there are troops in Iraq, this would have changed anything. Everything will be temporary until they now stop the breeches and get the water out.

Steve

[Squirt]

The Federal government, and in particular the Bush administration, is firmly to blame for the level of damage incurred by this disaster and the lack of immediate aid to those in need, as we speak, in the effected areas.

"Just last year, the Army Corps of Engineers sought $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans. The White House slashed the request to about $40 million. Congress finally approved $42.2 million, less than half of the agency's request.

Yet the lawmakers and Bush agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-laden highway bill that included more than 6,000 pet projects for lawmakers. Congress spent money on dust control for Arkansas roads, a warehouse on the Erie Canal and a $231 million bridge to a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

How could Washington spend $231 million on a bridge to nowhere - and not find $42 million for hurricane and flood projects in New Orleans? It's a matter of power and politics." SOURCE

Desslock, being president of the United States of America is a difficult job. If being President were easy, and you weren't responsible for anything, anyone could do it. Only a select few, out of hundreds of millions of U.S. citizens, even seriously qualify to run for President.

The Bush, and his old boys network of an administration, have constantly blamed everyone else for everything that has happened since Bush has taken office. NEVER ever, not even once, has Bush taken responsibility for anything he's done to this country. We have a record deficit, record oil prices, record gas prices, a war in Iraq to free people from a dictator that's been captured, yet we're still being killed there on a daily basis, low currency value, citizens have fewer rights now then ever before, babies are being added to no fly lists by the TSA, the media is afraid to freely express itself out of fear. BUT... the president isn't to blame. Who is? On September 11th 2 airplanes flew into two buildings in New York killing a couple thousand people... how our government reacted, headed by our President Bush, is what brought us to where we are today, NOTHING else. We are FUCKED for the next three years.. it will only get worse.

My exasperation would be more at why the people who live there and elect hadn't prepared a little better for it.

How prepared can one be when their house is underwater? Some of this is unavoidable and no matter how prepared a person might be, they could end up with nothing but the clothes on there back and in need of water, shelter and food.

I saw the news coverage. Thousands of people were leaving the area, clogged up freeways, over crowded airports, etc. If you are poor, for whatever reason, and are living paycheck to paycheck, or are on public assistance, what can be expected of you in regards to preparedness for a natural disaster? What can be expected is our national guard, directed by the president, to be sent in to help evacuations for a notoriously impoverished area of the United States.. pretty simple.

NOTE to Desslock: I feel passionately about this subject.. no anger or resentment is directed at any way to you :love:

[Slade]

Much less try to allege that because there are troops in Iraq, this would have changed anything. Everything will be temporary until they now stop the breeches and get the water out.

Steve

Obviously it is more than having the full compliment of National Guardsmen available..but to say it makes NO difference is very naive I think. You don't think a few hundred more lives SAVED initially with more troops is signficant?

CBS news reported that there were just a handful of National Guard on the streets of New Orleans. New Orleans should be CRAWLING with National Guard..everywhere.

NBC News reported that there are only 14,200 guardsmen on duty in BOTH the states of Louisiana and Mississippi.

And finally, if there is no issue about the # of guardsmen available, why did the government just call up **10,000** COMBAT troops for relief efforts?


And thank you Squirt for what you posted too.
I would have thought that since the Gulf Coast was vital to America's oil production and refining, that the Bush admin would at least be motivated by that.

[Slade]

And then there is also this:
-------------------
"Perhaps the biggest complaint about the federal response stems from the brazen lawlessness and looting in the city, punctuated with gunfire.

Chertoff said Thursday that 4,200 trained National Guard military police would be deployed in the city over the next three days, quadrupling the law enforcement presence in New Orleans.

"Fourteen hundred military police trained soldiers will be arriving every day --- 1,400 today, 1,400 tomorrow and 1,400 the next day," he said.

"Frankly, what we're doing is we are putting probably more than we need in order to send an unambiguous message that we will not tolerate lawlessness or violence or interference with the evacuation."

Yet, the first contingent of those promised military police were not scheduled to arrive until late Thursday night -- and only 100 Guard members would be in that first wave, according to Pentagon officials. Pressed about the other 1,300 promised troops, officials would only say that they were on the way.

New Orleans police officers told CNN that they needed the manpower earlier in the week to prevent the looting and violence now prevalent in the city. The situation is now much worse because among the first items taken from stores, according to the officers, were guns -- turning unarmed thieves into armed gangsters.

Police were reduced to looting ammunition from stores themselves, to keep it off the streets."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/0...nse/index.html