2257 and Europe...

[cyber-stud]

the way i see it (tell me if i'm wrong), if your company is in europe (and you, too), your models are in europe, etc, and you're on a european server, you basically can poop on 2257, right? how about if all of the above, but you're on a US server - problems? or is 2257 still poopable?

fyi, i'm not talking kiddy porn - we're talking real man-porn with grown-ups (and the appropriate paperwork) - just without all the bush-ashcroft anal-retentive crapola.

[XXXWriterDude]

the way i see it (tell me if i'm wrong), if your company is in europe (and you, too), your models are in europe, etc, and you're on a european server, you basically can poop on 2257, right? how about if all of the above, but you're on a US server - problems? or is 2257 still poopable?

Talk to an attorney. I believe that there is some loophole that the U.S. is using to potentially prosecute companies overseas if they sell their product in the States.

Clive DeWitt or Greg Piccionelli (adult entertainment attorneys) or other resources are a good way to find out. Someone here might know the specifics, but I do know that Canadian companies like Maleflixxx were required to follow U.S. 2257 regs.

[basschick]

cyber-stud - do you plan to involve any affiliates? u.s. webmasters won't be able to work with a site that doesn't conform to 2257.

XXXWriterDude - you mean clyde dewitt?

[XXXWriterDude]

XXXWriterDude - you mean clyde dewitt?

Haha! Yes, I knew that even! I've interviewed him a few times. Where the hell did Clive come from?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up amphetamines.

[basschick]

it sure does! and i know the feeling...

looks like i've picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue

Haha! Yes, I knew that even! I've interviewed him a few times. Where the hell did Clive come from?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up amphetamines.

[Soonnow]

Oops, now what. I'm european on an american server.
With no mention of 2257 whatsoever anywhere on the site.
- You're telling me FBI/CIA/FEMA is gonna come crashing through my door
and invite me to a camp on Cuba for "processing" :2ymca:

[Hamilton Steele]

Talk to an attorney. I believe that there is some loophole that the U.S. is using to potentially prosecute companies overseas if they sell their product in the States.

Clive DeWitt or Greg Piccionelli (adult entertainment attorneys) or other resources are a good way to find out. Someone here might know the specifics, but I do know that Canadian companies like Maleflixxx were required to follow U.S. 2257 regs.

The major big thing with 2257 and if or not you require it is who is your processor.

The secondary thing is who do you sell to. I dump tons of footage on the american market under various pseudos names. They require copies off all your crap for legal purposes.

As for the "Loophole."

I was contacted 2 weeks ago and told that my products did not meet with community standards of of Augusta Georogia and that they intended to persue crimnal action against me. (I shipped several boxes of videos to a man that in turn sold them at a mark up.)

Of course when I recieved the letter I contacted my attorney. (Advocat in french) And took some serious investigation into it. Basically this is what he found.

1. I broke american laws by using the United states postal service.
2. Because several of my videos included such acts as double fistings, urine drinking and mixed BDSM with sex. My product was in violation of community standards.

However he does not take the prosecution seriously because.

1. They require a judgement or warrent for my arrest to have me forcebly sent to the United States. And they won't be able to obtain one because I only sell to private citizens and not distributors. And a simple bench warrent is not sufficient to have me extradited. (sp?)

2. I am not an american citizen and have operated within the confines of the laws of both my parent country and my adopted one. Under international laws that America has been in agreement with. I am required to maliciously with prejudice and intent to be actively seeking to circumvent another nations legal system for my own gains. (This is a bitch to prove if all your doing is manufacturing product and shipping it.)

3. Because I am not american I am only required to furnish reasonable doubt that by using the United States postal service I was not aware of the legal constraints of using them to ship profane material. (Since it is not ilegal to ship my crap in france via the post. It would be reasonable for me to assume the same of the U.S. Futhermore the United States Postal Inspector must serve me with a written notice detailing the law I am infringing and a cease and dessist. (sp?) --- After this if I continue they have a case against me and can demand removal proceedings for me.)

Basically,

It's not a biggie unless you are an american. Then you could come under the jurisdiction of the sexual tourism laws and conspiracy laws.

IE: if you visit one country where age of consent is 10 and bang 10 year old hookers you can be charged in the U.S. upon return.

Or.
Under international law if you use one country's laws to circumvent the laws of another you have commited an offense of conspiracy.

All in all.
As long as you aren't american and keep your keep to the laws of your country and your processor isn't american based. Fuck it, you're in the clear.

[Squirt]

Oops, now what. I'm european on an american server.
With no mention of 2257 whatsoever anywhere on the site.
- You're telling me FBI/CIA/FEMA is gonna come crashing through my door
and invite me to a camp on Cuba for "processing" :2ymca:

*sigh*

Why even bother being on a U.S. server with no 2257?

[Dzinerbear]

oh this again ... the U.S. government does not have the jurisdiction to enforce their laws outside of the U.S. They cannot not even ask my local police to come to my place of business and check ID.

However, rather than "poop" on the laws as you say. I think it's easier to say that you're compliant. Do what everyone else is doing on their sites and play the game, but just know that no DOJ suits will be banging on your door to check anything.

Having said all of this, the way the DOJ could enforce this law internationally is by making it illegal for U.S. sites and billing companies to do business with anyone that isn't compliant.

But I suspect we're looking at some backtracking on this whole 2257 issue as Hollywood and the big studios are starting to say, "What the fuck?"

Michael

[Squirt]

oh this again ... the U.S. government does not have the jurisdiction to enforce their laws outside of the U.S. They cannot not even ask my local police to come to my place of business and check ID.

Having said all of this, the way the DOJ could enforce this law internationally is by making it illegal for U.S. sites and billing companies to do business with anyone that isn't compliant.

I don't mean to be rude but it's very late in the game to be playing the "my business is invinsible because I'm overseas" card. It's been proven so many times now that you people should have learned.

Bimboy uses CCBill EU .. he's taking subscriptions in American dollars. All USD transactions go through Chase Manhattan in New York. If you don't think the American government can't fuck with your business if they want to then feel free to think that, but you're wrong. They've done it before, and are doing it now.

[Dzinerbear]

Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't use the word invisible.

And didn't I already pretty much already cover the billing issue, or can't you read? I SAID, "Having said all of this, the way the DOJ could enforce this law internationally is by making it illegal for U.S. sites and billing companies to do business with anyone that isn't compliant."

Michael

[Chilihost]

Oops, now what. I'm european on an american server.
With no mention of 2257 whatsoever anywhere on the site.
- You're telling me FBI/CIA/FEMA is gonna come crashing through my door
and invite me to a camp on Cuba for "processing" :2ymca:

If you need help moving to an offshore hosting solution hit me up on sales@chilihost.com - and no, we are not a USA based company so the DOJ will not be visiting us demanding we pull the plug on your server either!

The major big thing with 2257 and if or not you require it is who is your processor.

As outlined in the 2257 regs, the major big thing with 2257 is where your business is located. If you are based out of the EU plus using an EU processor plus EU hosting, you don't need to comply with US laws. As a site owner you are not responsible for US-based surfers for visiting your site. If the government is that gung-ho on stopping this, they can - after all they control all major USA DNS servers plus USA-international gateways still. Oh, I totally agree with that you are saying in the rest of your post about not being american, the same with Michael's post above.

cheers,
Luke

[Chilihost]

Oh what the hell since I am into quoting today...

I don't mean to be rude but it's very late in the game to be playing the "my business is invinsible because I'm overseas" card. It's been proven so many times now that you people should have learned.

Bimboy uses CCBill EU .. he's taking subscriptions in American dollars. All USD transactions go through Chase Manhattan in New York. If you don't think the American government can't fuck with your business if they want to then feel free to think that, but you're wrong. They've done it before, and are doing it now.

First off, unless you are sitting in jail, it is not too late. Bloody hell, the law isn't even decided yet thanks to the FSC injunction...how can you possibly say its too late????

Second, if Bimboy uses CCBillEU he has to abide by CCBillEU's rules, not USA's rules. Do you think that Cubans selling cigars for USD have to abide by US rules. Hell, 99.95% of all currency in Panama is US currency (they mint their own coins here so occasionally you do get a balboa or two in the mix), but Panama is definately not abiding by USA's rules...even if you do bank through a local branch of a US-based bank like citibank. And just because CCBillEU is pushing currency thru ChaseManhatten, there is absolutely no way you, as an EU client, can be responsible for their international money movements.

cheers,
Luke

[JoshTucker]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up amphetamines.

Is there really a RIGHT week to give up amphetamines XXXWriterDude?

[Paco]

Is there really a RIGHT week to give up amphetamines XXXWriterDude?

Hell no!
Kick hugs; embrace drugs!

Todays lesson: every body is a junkie (addicted to something). The only important item to remember is how well they fit in to society and function, while on their drugs of choice!

I try not to discriminate, so I've decided to go with all of the above! :pie: