Broadband Rape!

[Slade]

I don't know how many of you have been experiencing "broadband rape", but I definitely have lately.

I'm trying to find a way to stop or SLOW down what has been going on the last 2 or 3 months where I get someone who joins for the lowest 1 month fee, goes in (obviously with broadband) and downloads like crazy till they have everything on the site, and then CANCEL their membership getting their money back. So they get EVERYTHING for free.

I've written CCBill about this situation, but basically they've just shrugged and never gotten back to me.

Anyone got some ideas?

[longboardjim]

you could limit the downloads but that would piss people like me with broadband off who join 30+ sites a month but don't really have time to sit and look at all the content! :goof:
the above is written in jest , i have run into a couple of sites that limit my downloads , maybe that would help.

sincerely ~ ..."i pay full-memberships every 6 months if you update regularly!"... ( sorry i'm not the average customer , i actually produce the sh*t , i just want to see what you have. )

[Lee]

You know this is something im always being asked about and short of packaging your movies with DRM or limiting the surfers access there isnt a whole lot that can be done about it.

If you are noticing that its members buying the cheaper option who are doing this, one solution would be to drop the low cost membership option, just a thought.

Regards,

Lee

[BananaMan]

Don't offer cheap trials; plenty of the sites we promote have only a one-month membership.

[Slade]

You know this is something im always being asked about and short of packaging your movies with DRM or limiting the surfers access there isnt a whole lot that can be done about it.

If you are noticing that its members buying the cheaper option who are doing this, one solution would be to drop the low cost membership option, just a thought.

Regards,

Lee

Yeah..but I've been having this happen with the regular one month membership as well. It's almost like it doesn't matter how much you charge, if they can cancel their membership and get their money back, they'll pay the initial amount whatever it is.

I wish ccbill & epoch would have a policy of not giving money back without CAUSE! (and I know that's a sticky wicket right there..they don't want to get in the middle of determing whether or not the person has just "cause" to get their money back..I can't prove they downloaded everything unless I send them the site stats..but even then, technically they aren't doing anything wrong).

I would think that with more people getting broadband and KNOWING that they can always challenge the charge for whatever reason, that the billing companies are losing money on this also, and thus can come up with a different/new policy on handling refunds.

[Slade]

Possible idea? After x amount of downloads or x amount of megs, they can't get their money back.

???

[LavenderLounge]

It's the same problem with chargebacks. You have to sell a lot of $1.99 trials to make up for a $25 or $50 chargeback, not to mention the penalities for excess chargebacks could screw you up permanently.

I always charge my highest fee for the FIRST month, then give discounts on renewals.

[Paco]

Our sites are capped, and not many members have complained about it, with the exception of those using download agents/managers.
We allow three downloads at a time : The first is at x-speed. If they start a second, the speed of the first drops and the second is at a lower rate, and ditto for the third.

Regarding refunds: our terms clearly state NO REFUNDS, however if I check the server logs and see the person has not logged in more than once and has not already 'tested' the site, I give the refund. However, if a subscriber begins pissing and moaning I give the refund, but only after I have Paycom add em to the negative list. (I often receive e-mail a week or so later asking why they can not buy a subscription to our site, to which I reply with a copy of the last demand for a refund and the text, please see previous correspondence!)

[Doc Douglas]

Slade,

We are very strict at CCBill with refunding any money because we know that you will lose and so will we. This issue at hand is that CCBill has no way to see what the consumer has downloaded or the amount of downloads because we are not siiting on your server with server logs. When we receive a call from the consumer stating they want their money back, our first response is NO, but we can certainly cancel them if they do not wish to be rebiller. If they have a very good reason for a refund (such as they have had no access to the site, and we can verify this) then of course we should refund them.

The are a few ways to combat this from your side though:


1. You can place a limit on the amount of downloads you allow.
2. you can offer a trial where they are limited to only a certain amount of download speed to prevent huge downloads, and as long as the become a full member you can give them full access.
3. You can set up a pre join page asking for email address, check it against your database to see if they have joined recently, and if so do not offer the trial but send them to a full subscription page.

Give me a shout with any questions and I will be happy to help in any way I can. Remember, we are on the same side here.

doug@ccbill.com 888-906-0666 x154

Douglas/CCBill

[basschick]

you can

1. have a limited trial area. there are ways to do this using NATS, but you can also do it by having a second member area. in it, you would offer your entire site - but some of it wouldn't be linked. and it would be very easy to upgrade if they like it. naughtyamerica does this, and i was startled at the % of people who upgrade the same day. they offer one full movie and pics for each site (you get access to 10 when you join) and can see the text and thumbs about all the episodes.

2. you can have a bandwidth limit for each member.

3. you can get DRM so that each video only plays once per day.

those are the options i know of.

btw, why have a trial? the only point is to let members get a taste of what your site has to offer before going monthly - if they don't go monthly, the trial is just bringing you freeloaders.

btw, if you pay 12 cents per gig of transfer, even if the guys download 10 gig on average, you're still making money on each member. and as long as you update enough, a lot of them do keep using their memberships after month 1...

[Slade]

Slade,

We are very strict at CCBill with refunding any money because we know that you will lose and so will we. This issue at hand is that CCBill has no way to see what the consumer has downloaded or the amount of downloads because we are not siiting on your server with server logs. When we receive a call from the consumer stating they want their money back, our first response is NO, but we can certainly cancel them if they do not wish to be rebiller. If they have a very good reason for a refund (such as they have had no access to the site, and we can verify this) then of course we should refund them.

The are a few ways to combat this from your side though:


1. You can place a limit on the amount of downloads you allow.
2. you can offer a trial where they are limited to only a certain amount of download speed to prevent huge downloads, and as long as the become a full member you can give them full access.
3. You can set up a pre join page asking for email address, check it against your database to see if they have joined recently, and if so do not offer the trial but send them to a full subscription page.

Give me a shout with any questions and I will be happy to help in any way I can. Remember, we are on the same side here.

doug@ccbill.com 888-906-0666 x154

Douglas/CCBill

Thanks for the info Douglas. Not trying to knock CCBill, but the answers I get when I call in differ from person to person on refunds. Would really like to see WHERE it is written up by CCBill as part of your actual policy.

Download limits REALLY PO the members in my experience.

If you slow down the downloads in your trial..they are automatically going to think you're WHOLE SITE is really slow and won't join. And, I don't offer trial memberships anyhow.

Checking email is almost fruitless with the endless # of yahoo & hotmail accounts one person can have.

I've written in before and asked to have a couple of repeat offenders "blacklisted" and never allowed membership again (by name..not email address), but CCBill never got back to me.

[Slade]

Regarding refunds: our terms clearly state NO REFUNDS, however if I check the server logs and see the person has not logged in more than once and has not already 'tested' the site, I give the refund. However, if a subscriber begins pissing and moaning I give the refund, but only after I have Paycom add em to the negative list. (I often receive e-mail a week or so later asking why they can not buy a subscription to our site, to which I reply with a copy of the last demand for a refund and the text, please see previous correspondence!)

SOUNDS like Paycom is more aggressive in their refund policy then than has been my experience with CCBill. Thanks for the info!

[Slade]

you can

2. you can have a bandwidth limit for each member.

3. you can get DRM so that each video only plays once per day.

I really don't want to penalize the "good" member for limiting their bandwidth and/or amounts of time they can play the video per day. Fortunately this is a small minority (for now at least) and will just have to start my own "blacklist" it seems.

[basschick]

well, the only time i've had problems with the amount people were downloading, it was people who gave their friends access to the site. otherwise it's not really a problem

i pay only $2.40 for a guy who downloads 20 gig - do you have many members who suck down more than 20 gig????

[claudio]

btw, if you pay 12 cents per gig of transfer, even if the guys download 10 gig on average, you're still making money on each member. and as long as you update enough, a lot of them do keep using their memberships after month 1...[/QUOTE]


Off topic but could you provide us with the url of your hosting company? I pay much more...

Thanks in advance

Claudio