Do You Think We're Losing Sight Of The Larger Picture?

[Lee]

It just struck me after reading a couple of the billing and new tchnology threads we have on GWW at the moment that, we tend to be pandering more to the sufer these days.

If the surfer requests that we get them pictures of a specific type of model or, niche, we get it for them, for free, if a surfer tells us that we need to have more content in our sites, we give it to them.

We're also giving the surfer more ways to pay for their porn as well as more delivery methods, do you think that, at some point in the near future, because we're embracing all these new technologies, payment methods and demands from surfers, that we'll no longer have an 'online' industry to work in?

Whatever happened to a surfer joining a porn site, with their credit card, isnt that what we're ultimately trying to do, get the surfer to spend money?

Regards,

Lee

[Chilihost]

There are a huge numbers of surfers that don't have credit cards plus whole countries that are banned by the billing processors for having poor records. Plus every day more and more surfers are coming online that previously could not, and a lot of these are coming online thanks to different billing methods, like prepay cards.

Mobile phone payments and other methods make those surfers & countries billable, I think that we are expanding the larger picture!

cheers,
Luke

[Chilihost]

oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I see this as offering more choice and services for surfers which is a natural progression happening in all good, dynamic industries. Staying still means staying stale!

cheers,
Luke

[sperbonzo]

There are a huge numbers of surfers that don't have credit cards plus whole countries that are banned by the billing processors for having poor records. Plus every day more and more surfers are coming online that previously could not, and a lot of these are coming online thanks to different billing methods, like prepay cards.

Mobile phone payments and other methods make those surfers & countries billable, I think that we are expanding the larger picture!

cheers,
Luke

We have a really good solution for pre-paid cards called Easybuy. It has the most retail distribution out there....over 4500 locations in the US, 300 in Canada, and we are working on Mexico, the UK and Germany.

Take a look....
http://www.2000charge.com/pages/sign...p?source=msper

(sorry, this may be a little spamy. but I'm trying to get it out there, as I think it will be a big help to webmasters as a way to get the surfers that don't or won't use a credit card

[XXXWriterDude]

Interesting question. You probably already know my answer, Lee, being as I have stated several times that porn should be looked at more as a social tool for the advancement of a healthy outlook on sexuality. I, in fact, think that porn sites should be CREATED for the enjoyment of the surfer, rather than simply for the financial gain of the webmaster. I think of us as the world's true sex therapists, not simply as capitalists. I think when your only motivation is to make money off of the sex you promote, then you're essentially just a whore or a pimp. Of course, I guess you need those kinds of people as well to make the world go round.

Um, no offense meant to the whores and pimps among you all.

You know us writers. We're troublemakers.

[CJ-KJCash]

I'm not sure if if you are making a distinction here between surfers in general and site members. But I consider giving people what they want to be good customer service and not pandering.

Our members often make requests for repeat shoots with specific models, certain types of shoots or models, etc. We try to be as accomodating as realistically possible, because these people are our customers and they are paying, they are not getting it for free. And our rebill rate for the past month has averaged out to be 75.86% so it seems to be a sound strategy and is certainly paying off.

As for the new technologies and ways of delivering, that seems to be following the same philosophy to me. Like Luke said, there are lots of people that dont have credit cards but we dont write them off as being potential customers. When I go out to restaurants and stores, the generally offer lots of payment options, like cash, check, credit card, EPS, etc. If we limit ourselves to only taking money from people with credit cards, that seems to be defeating the whole purpose of getting them to pay for goods and services.

Same with delivery methods. The more ways we make it possible for for surfers to receive our goods and services, the more likely they are to spend money with us. Again, when I do my shopping, I am give a plethora of options to get the stuff to my home. UPS, Fedex, regular post, etc.

And I agree with Ken that it is a good idea to create and serve our stuff with the customer in mind. I know there are some webmasters out there that consider surfers to be an annoyance that they have to put up with. I dont subscribe to that theory. I'll admit that sometimes they make demands that are over the top and and just not reasonable.

I had one surfer last week that sent 5 emails regarding one movie on our AEBN feeds that was not working. We explained that was content we purchased for them and tried to get it fixed, but for some reason they didnt get it done. I explained there were 100's of other movies in the feeds to see, and over 3000 video clips on our site, so if he wanted to cancel over one missing movie, there was nothing I could do about it.

For me, the "larger picture" is finding more customers and getting them converted to rebilling customers. And I dont think giving them what they want and how they want is hurting the industry. There are so many quick buck artists out there that have really done damage to the industry by playing the little bait and switch game and all the other dirty tricks some webmasters think they have to play to make money.

In my book, this is called Customer Service. And it seems to be working, at least for us......

[Lee]

I'm not sure if if you are making a distinction here between surfers in general and site members. But I consider giving people what they want to be good customer service and not pandering.

Im talking about 'surfers' the ones who havent purchased a membership and, in my opinion, giving these type of people what they want is crazy. Giving paying members what they want, thats another story all together

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

Im talking about 'surfers' the ones who havent purchased a membership and, in my opinion, giving these type of people what they want is crazy. Giving paying members what they want, thats another story all together

Ahhhh, your post makes more sense now. You just said surfers earlier, as opposed to non-paying surfers. Big difference there, buddy.

But again, I think all adult webmasters need to re-examine what they think the "big picture" really is.

Why do people make movies? Why do we want to get into movies and entertainment in the first place? Obviously, there is a communal energy and a mass consciousness that comes with the territory. People usually watch movies because they are looking for representations of their life on the big screen. (I know many people often say they go to the movies b/cuz they want to lose themselves, but I think that is total B.S. People go to the movies more often than not b/cuz they want to find themselves.) We want to relate to the people and stories on the screen, to think, "What if that happened to me?" Likewise, those who get into movies and write scripts and act and direct are more likely to want to share their emotions and experiences with an audience. In a way, it's a form of therapy. Women like chick flicks 'cuz they can cry in them. Straight guys like action flicks 'cuz they can relate to wanting to be the hero. Etc. etc.

The same applies to pornography. Or at least it should. Yet many porn directors, porn stars, and webmasters have cheapened what porn was meant to be originally, and turned it into nothing more than a culture of sex for sale.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, adult entertainment should, first and foremost, be something that we use to promote a healthy social consciousness surrounding human sexuality. By representing the various forms of sexual desire onscreen, we are giving people a place where they can feel validated for the things that they find to be hot. Gay people, especially, need this more of sexual validation more than anyone, as our sexuality is often marginalized and maligned as dirty and shameful.

Meanwhile, since we do not have very many openly gay Hollywood performers, porn stars have become our community's "icons." Considering that a large portion of them are gay-for-pay or are carbon-copy gym bunnies who pump themselves up on steroids and put horrible things in their bodies when they're not onscreen, that's a rather sad fact.

We have the opportunity to shape and refine the gay community's ideas about sexuality. We have the power to create a brand new sexual revolution that does MORE than just show guys fucking. We have the opportunity to tell STORIES and share EXPERIENCES that will help gay men feel less marginalized and shameful.

I truly think THAT is the bigger picture here. Yes, it's WONDERFUL that we can make a living off of doing this, but as someone who sought out this business to be a part of, the motivation behind it was never the pay. It has never been, nor will it ever be.

What's my point then? That the surfers--the paying ones--are EVERYTHING to us. The content is golden. We may all look at our affiliate programs and our retention and our sales and think, "This is wonderful," but I seriously look forward to the day when people start saying things like, "The emails I get from guys who say I helped them come out and feel proud of who they are--those are the things that make me proud of what I do. The money is just a nice bonus."

Again, just my starry-eyed, idealistic $.02.

[dannyz]

Ahhhh, your post makes more sense now. You just said surfers earlier, as opposed to non-paying surfers. Big difference there, buddy.

But again, I think all adult webmasters need to re-examine what they think the "big picture" really is.

Why do people make movies? Why do we want to get into movies and entertainment in the first place? Obviously, there is a communal energy and a mass consciousness that comes with the territory. People usually watch movies because they are looking for representations of their life on the big screen. (I know many people often say they go to the movies b/cuz they want to lose themselves, but I think that is total B.S. People go to the movies more often than not b/cuz they want to find themselves.) We want to relate to the people and stories on the screen, to think, "What if that happened to me?" Likewise, those who get into movies and write scripts and act and direct are more likely to want to share their emotions and experiences with an audience. In a way, it's a form of therapy. Women like chick flicks 'cuz they can cry in them. Straight guys like action flicks 'cuz they can relate to wanting to be the hero. Etc. etc.

The same applies to pornography. Or at least it should. Yet many porn directors, porn stars, and webmasters have cheapened what porn was meant to be originally, and turned it into nothing more than a culture of sex for sale.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, adult entertainment should, first and foremost, be something that we use to promote a healthy social consciousness surrounding human sexuality. By representing the various forms of sexual desire onscreen, we are giving people a place where they can feel validated for the things that they find to be hot. Gay people, especially, need this more of sexual validation more than anyone, as our sexuality is often marginalized and maligned as dirty and shameful.

Meanwhile, since we do not have very many openly gay Hollywood performers, porn stars have become our community's "icons." Considering that a large portion of them are gay-for-pay or are carbon-copy gym bunnies who pump themselves up on steroids and put horrible things in their bodies when they're not onscreen, that's a rather sad fact.

We have the opportunity to shape and refine the gay community's ideas about sexuality. We have the power to create a brand new sexual revolution that does MORE than just show guys fucking. We have the opportunity to tell STORIES and share EXPERIENCES that will help gay men feel less marginalized and shameful.

I truly think THAT is the bigger picture here. Yes, it's WONDERFUL that we can make a living off of doing this, but as someone who sought out this business to be a part of, the motivation behind it was never the pay. It has never been, nor will it ever be.

What's my point then? That the surfers--the paying ones--are EVERYTHING to us. The content is golden. We may all look at our affiliate programs and our retention and our sales and think, "This is wonderful," but I seriously look forward to the day when people start saying things like, "The emails I get from guys who say I helped them come out and feel proud of who they are--those are the things that make me proud of what I do. The money is just a nice bonus."

Again, just my starry-eyed, idealistic $.02.

Ken, what you said is right on. Sometimes I feel I may be in the minority, but I am one of those who love being in this business for reasons other then just money. Sex is the most healthy and natural thing since human existence, and it's something that should be celebrated. Don't you remember the excitement the first time you got home and found that porno with a really hot guy, and couldn't wait to rip the magazine/DVD/video open?

We get fan mail all the time to our mascot charachter on the site, 'Suki,' and it really is the best part of the business for me. We try to personally respond to all their emails, and really make them feel a part of the site. I think it's also pretty obvious from our content that the performers/directors/webmasters/editors all enjoy their jobs and it really comes out on the sites. We really do try to make our sites be the sites we dreamed of finding when we used to search for porn online.

So what's the big picture? Each paysite should be like having a baby. Nurture it, help it grow, put real love and care into it. Paying surfers or not, as long as you keep your tour updated they'll keep coming back. Eventually they are going to join, and if they see you are updating every week, have good content and put care into the site you can be sure you'll get at least some that will never stop rebilling and remain loyal for life.

[basschick]

on a more pragmtic note - if you live in the u.s. and can argue that your content promotes a healthy sexuality, you might have a defense against obscenity that is hard to beat.

[XXXWriterDude]

on a more pragmtic note - if you live in the u.s. and can argue that your content promotes a healthy sexuality, you might have a defense against obscenity that is hard to beat.

Hmmmm, you know, that's a really good point. I wonder if anyone's tried that yet. Ideas ideas...

Glad you agree with me. I know a lot of people think of me as the 'loudmouthed trouble-maker.' And I guess it's OK if that's how I am perceived. I make no bones about the fact that I got into this business specifically to shake things up, to rattle the cages and keep people on their toes. I've already gotten a few comments from people in the business who are offended by my reviews of their movies, saying they think I should judge them by more "traditional" standards of pornography. But if that means that we can just put out CRAP all the time and not be held accountable for it, then I vehemently disagree. Likewise, when I try to point out how something like the straight-guy niche can be viewed as one that has the potential to send potentially damaging and counter-productive messages about gay sexuality, I get slammed for "alienating webmasters."

I often look around this business and I am so disheartened by what I see--the types of guys we claim are sexy, the negative body images we readily promote, the ideas about sex we trumpet through badly directed and lazy filmmaking, the indirect messages about identity that we send to gay men, the alienation we help to encourage--and all in the name of money.

When you turn sex into just a business and you ignore the responsibility you have in representing it, you trivialize its importance. You cheapen its social value. It's not "just porn" or "just sex," as so many directors and webmasters are quick to say when you try to get them to take responsibility for their work.

I truly care about adult entertainment. It was the first time I ever saw two men having sex, and it changed my life. And it has the power to do that for everyone. Which is why I think we need to put MORE thought and MORE care into what we create. I truly believe that gay men are hungering for more exciting representations of their sexuality on screen. I know that *I* am. And if I am, then there are many others like me who are looking for the same thing. And by that, I mean MORE than just suck-and-fuck. MORE than just penetration, MORE than just cum shots. I want something that REEKS of the true meaning of male-on-male sexuality, something that explores the pyschological meaning of what it means to be gay, what it means to participate in being gay. I want something that tells me "It's good to be gay. It's OK to be who you are."

So when I think about the "bigger picture," that's what I come up with.

[basschick]

ken - i don't put the weight on porn that you do, but i strongly believe we can offer something that is emotionally satisfying at no extra financial cost whatsoever. a good single girl (or guy) site always interests me - it makes me look beyond how cute the girl is into the person she is. i like that feeling. i like to see people who are having a honest-to-god great time!

str8 porn is full of sites where the guys are the same guys over and over, and they seem jaded and disinterested except when they insult the girls involved. a lot of the girls seem bored or miserable - and the other night, while writing descriptions for a client, i saw one who looked like she was nodding a little - even when she'd focus, she wasn't really focused. heroin, i suppose. NOT what i want to see or think about when i want a nice, sexy feeling going on.

i like something that is fun, or interesting - or makes me feel involved.

[XXXWriterDude]

ken - i don't put the weight on porn that you do, but i strongly believe we can offer something that is emotionally satisfying at no extra financial cost whatsoever. a good single girl (or guy) site always interests me - it makes me look beyond how cute the girl is into the person she is. i like that feeling. i like to see people who are having a honest-to-god great time!

Well, that works for me. I know not everyone can have the lofty ideas that I have!