Need a couple of volunteers - Race riots in France

[Hamilton Steele]

Ok some of you might know about the riots in France,

I'm right in the heart of where all this started and is going on. I can literally walk to the burned out areas.

I'm not sure what they are saying on North American news but rest assured this is about race and prejudice. I've experienced a taste of it because I'm an immigrant and speak the acadien dialect. (A dialect they don't recognize as "french" one.)

But I'm white so I'm better off than those rioting. Rest assured what France is experiencing is exactly the same thing the southern United State experienced almost 50 years ago. I can almost hear Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks speaking in french from their graves.

Donc,

I'm dusting off my mainstream-idependant film maker shoes and going to work. There is a story that needs to be told and people need to be made aware of the problems.

I'm doing this pro-bona and I'm searching or other people to also do this pro-bona. I will need a video editor, channel of distribution, etc. All or any profits after expenses are covered will be used or donated to an organization to that fights racism or promotes equal rights.

If you are interested -- email me directly
Thanks
Hamilton

[desslock]

Well one thing that is written about in the international press is that the problems areas stem from France's instituionalized problems such as the really high unemployment with younger people.

France not only has like 10% unemployment, but its really disproportionately high when you get into those groups of people. And younger Muslims fit into that group. I think this is a giant component of the problem. Compare to the United States, where there are jobs for immigrants...in fact we are very dependant on them. And here after a generation, a family that has immigrated from Mexico, Cuba or Nicaragua has had some upward mobility.

The Wall Street Journal also ran interesting op-ed last week about how European countries are having difficulties with their immigrant populations, compared to the United States. In the United States we have a melting pot culture, and it is completely common for anyone to have an ethnic surname.

In countries like the Netherlands, or France or Germany, those countries unite around their own culture and history almost to the point like it is an exclusive club... immigrants do not integrate because they are not a part of the culture. Does France have that divided school system like the Netherlands? I have read that Muslims go to "Muslim schools" in the Netherlands... as opposed to in the United States where everybody in one area goes to the same public high school.

Steve

[Paco]

Excellent point desslock!

What I still do not understand is why did they run from the check point (because they thought the police where chasing them).

I never could see a reason why people move from their place of birth while refusing to integrate with the society of where they moved to. Instead, they'd rather find others with similar traditions and set-up the same ole camp with the same ole situations, in a new location. When 'things' are not done how they were in their place of birth, they bitch that they 'do not feel welcomed or part of society'. When things fail becaue they simply will not melt with the rest of the pot, they riot, sue, go on the news and worse.

(My family moved from Italy to Canada, and the last thing the family want to do is live in the same situation. We decided to NOT live in 'little' Italy!)

There is nothing wrong with holding on to some traditions, however a person moved from their 'native' location so to change (or for other reasons), yet they do not change.

[Hamilton Steele]

The hardest thing to do is hang up your north american ideas and approach this with an open mind.

Please don't think I'm advocating violence or what is going on now. As an independant film maker I'm just trying to tell the story.

But on that note let me tell you what happen to me the other night.

I had the fortune to film 4 police officers with 2 youths that they had caught. They took them to an impasse. (Alley in english)

There they began to lay bets on who would scream louder when they were hit. Sadly -- and you can call bullshit if you like.

The police noticed I was filming from a distance and I didn't get much of a chance to run. My camera was destroyed and I got a nice kick in the crotch for my "impoliteness."

Luckly I had my canadian passport on me and was saved.

There are 3 sides to every story.

One side.
The other side.

And the truth.

"Obviously since it has spread to almost the entire country and gone on for 11 days. There is more going on here then meets the eyes."

And that is my wife's words in the above statement.

[Paco]

The hardest thing to do is hang up your north american ideas and approach this with an open mind.

Sure, I'll agree, some do have problems setting aside their ideas, North American or not.

[Paco]

Oh how cherry: some citizens of France (sick of the terrorists burning their property) approached the people of the 'suburbs', that are causing the problems, so to ask why they are doing this, only to be met with retorts such as "why are you here", "leave us to deal with our problem" & "we do not need you here".

[basschick]

after years of being relegated to ghettos, in the 60's the black population of watts exploded into violence. many of them weren't articulate enough to explain why clearly - and they also didn't want help.

i don't know exactly what goes on in france, but large groups of people only act that far out of what has been their charcter if something very wrong is going on. btw, a friend of mind in france but not close to what's going on says that the news he's watched says there IS no riots, just a few gang kids acting up. cover up maybe? and if so - why?

[Paco]

well, the French are well known for their shady dealings, so a cover-up would not surprise me, however I've been listening to the news for the last 10-days and one thing is clear, a great many of the so called victims are the ones victimizing and committing atrocities against themselves. They boldly display their trophies (stolen goods such a cell phones, PDAs, jewellery etc). One decided to share a copy of a video he has of a Chetchnian beheading a Russian with a butcher knife (yah, I am sure there was a 'viable' reason for that action).
Also, with the amount of comments against Jewish person, and thumbing-up the tube bombings does not help their so-called cause.

It is plain to see that they are pissed that they were moved from Morocco, and will make all others pay.

I'd still like to know why the youths ran from the check point.

[claudio]

Until last night 3'500 cars have been set on fire and uncountable stores, supermarkets, schools and collages (because these are visited by the "rich") and official buildings have been destoyed or partially.

What many French say is that they should expulse all that "crap". Please remark that I wrote "crap in quotes".
And this is there only solution and their concern is only who is paying all the destroyed cars.

Fact is those people primarily from Algeria and Marroco live all in big cities escpecially in Paris in the outer circle and there in veritable ghettos, in rabbit hutches, what in other countries of Europe does not exist.

The French government neglected to anything for those people since three (3) generations. Since the ww3. Although they are French with passport. There was no program to integrate them and find work for them.
Shame on France.

I'm citizen of a neighbor of France but have a house in this country which I love very much. (But in a calmer region than Hamilton) Burgundy which is very countryside. Here we had only about 10 cars burning. In Dijon and Lons and something in Chalôn, but that is detail.

Claudio

Hamilton: hope you have your camera replaced. It is a shame. They would do the same with the press...

[Hamilton Steele]

Claudio

Hamilton: hope you have your camera replaced. It is a shame. They would do the same with the press...

No they aren't going to replace my camera.
And this is my last response to this thread.
I have nothing more to say.

[jIgG]

1st generation immigrants don't integrate because they don't want to.
Most don't want to.

Hardcore muslims don't want to integrate because they think it destroys their culture. Like women having too many rights, men not being in control, etc.
See what they're trying to do in the Netherlands.

2nd generations, those born in the respective country to immigrant parents, assimilate the culture because that's what they're growing up with.

Here in South Florida young latinos are very americanised, they watch more english-language TV, while their parents watch almost exclusively Spanish-language stations.

You also have immigrants who congregate in their own communities because it reminds them of home, they want to speak their own language for the same reason and when you have that you don't really feel the need to fit in with the locals. Which of course backfires

[desslock]

Well I watched FOXnews and the Newshour w/Jim Lehrer tonight, and they were pretty specific in their news reports that the rioters were typically young second generation immigrants, and most speak French. The youth speak of alienation and their treatment as second class citizens.

I am also reminded of just two years ago when over 10,000 people in France died from the heat, a great many were elderly and left to die alone at home.

France should probably reasses the consequences of the welfare state that exists there. A 35-hour workweek is probably hunky dory if you have a unionized job from which you can't get fired, but if you are not part of that elite, perhaps that unemployed individual could feel an "alienation" from the the system which is structurally built to disallow them from entering.

Their problem is further complicated because their pension systems are running out of money, and their working population is not increasing, so they need immigrants.

Steve