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Thread: Doc Makes Candid Comments on HIV Vaccine

  1. #1
    chick with a bass basschick's Avatar
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    Doc Makes Candid Comments on HIV Vaccine

    "WASHINGTON - In an unusually candid admission, the federal chief of AIDS research says he believes drug companies don't have an incentive to create a vaccine for the HIV and are likely to wait to profit from it after the government develops one.

    And that means the government has had to spend more time focusing on the processes that drug companies ordinarily follow in developing new medicines and bringing them to market.

    "We had to spend some time and energy paying attention to those aspects of development because the private side isn't picking it up," Dr. Edmund Tramont testified in a deposition in a recent employment lawsuit obtained by The Associated Press.

    Tramont is head of the AIDS research division of the National Institutes of Health, and he predicted in his testimony that the government will eventually create a vaccine. He testified in July in the whistleblower case of Dr. Jonathan Fishbein.

    "If we look at the vaccine, HIV vaccine, we're going to have an HIV vaccine. It's not going to be made by a company," Tramont said. "They're dropping out like flies because there's no real incentive for them to do it. We have to do it."

    "They will eventually — if it works, they won't have to make that big investment. And they can make it and sell it and make a profit," he said.

    An official of the group representing the country's major drug companies took sharp exception to Tramont's comments.

    "That is simply not true. America's pharmaceutical research companies are firmly committed to HIV/AIDS vaccine research and development with 15 potential vaccines in development today," said Ken Johnson, senior vice president of PhRMA, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.

    "Vaccine research is crucial to controlling the AIDS pandemic and our companies are well aware of the need to succeed in this vital area of science," Johnson said.

    In an e-mail response for comment, Tramont said the HIV vaccine mirrors the history of other vaccines. "It is not just a HIV vaccine - it's all vaccines - that is why there was/is a shortage of flu vaccines," Tramont wrote.

    The quest for an AIDS vaccine has been one of science's biggest disappointments despite billions of dollars and years of research. Part of the dilemma is that such a vaccine must work through the very immune system that AIDS compromises.

    The failure in the last couple years of one of the more promising vaccine candidates has bred some frustration.

    The United Nations' top HIV/AIDS official acknowledged earlier this year at a conference that it was no longer realistic to hope that the world will meet its goal of halting and reversing the spread of the pandemic by 2015. A British delegate to that conference predicted it might take 20 years before such a vaccine is created.

    The International AIDS Vaccines Initiative, a not-for-profit group that is pushing for an AIDS vaccine, said there are more than 30 vaccine candidates being tested mostly on a small scale in 19 counties, but it acknowledges many are pursuing a similar theory of science that may prove futile.

    "If the hypothesis is proven incorrect, the pipeline of candidates now in trials will be rendered mostly irrelevant. Strong alternative hypotheses have been largely neglected," the group said.

    IAVI estimates total annual spending on an AIDS vaccine is $682 million.

    "This represents less than 1% of total spending on all health product development," IAVI said. "Private sector efforts amount to just $100 million annually. This is mainly due to the lack of incentives for the private sector to invest in an AIDS vaccine — the science is difficult, and the developing countries that need a vaccine most are least able to pay.""

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/aids_vacc...BhBHNlYwM5NjQ-


  2. #2
    EonFilms_Josh
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    it's sad but it's like that everywhere.

    If you could come up with a site that someone would only need to see once and they could get off for the rest of their lives without ever looking at porn again would you put it up? and if so how much?

    we live in a capitolist country.. money comes first... people come second.

    i'm not condoning the drug company's behavior to the problem.

    there will be a vaccine. one day.


  3. #3
    chick with a bass basschick's Avatar
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    josh, keeping people from getting an often fatal disease isn't the same as helping guys get off. if i could put up a website where everyone could pay once and would not die of sickness or would be cured of cancer or hiv - i would happily charge only once. heck, i'd probably give free access.

    ethics are a beautiful thing - too bad so few corporations have 'em


  4. #4
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by EonFilms_Josh
    it's sad but it's like that everywhere.

    If you could come up with a site that someone would only need to see once and they could get off for the rest of their lives without ever looking at porn again would you put it up? and if so how much?

    we live in a capitolist country.. money comes first... people come second.

    i'm not condoning the drug company's behavior to the problem.

    there will be a vaccine. one day.

    ????? :dunce:


  5. #5
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyTaylor
    ????? :dunce:

    Good Idea Josh.. But that would put alot of people out of business...
    and Im also wondering how it has to do with what patty is talking about...??
    Please explain?!?

    Patty I agree alot of people in this world are greedy and all about thereselves and it is like ( ME ME ME ME ME!! ) WHICH IS SAD!! Money can be a weird thing sometimes and people agendas are also at some time questionable...
    I think that Ethics are something that has to do with everything and not many companys have them... NOT MANY PEOPLE HAVE THEM!! Which is sad.. That is why I try everyday of my life to give.. Cause I get so much .. I dont take things for granted and everything my life I try to show appreciation and love and give as much compassion and thought to everything I do and everyone I come in contact with... Ethics are a hard thing to have and it is always easier to take the road that is easier and not many take the road less traveled But thats ok... Because for people like me and you it makes us different and one of a kind and THAT ROCKS!!

    I think this situation there having with the HIV Vaccine is ridiculous and I also think that they have no intiative to make it at all. Seeming there making a shit load of money off the ridiculously expensive HIV DRUGS!!! and if there was a cute then they would make continuous profit off of these drugs that are such a money maker for them.. The government will have to do it or god himself or maybe some private company who knows... But It will happen eventually I think.. I hope it does... Cause I have some friends who deal with this and you know not everyone gets it cause there a slut there is many reasons but Im not going to get into that lets just say I pray for everyone with it cause I dont think anyone deserves it!


  6. #6
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyTaylor
    and if there was a cute then they would make continuous profit off of these drugs that are such a money maker for them.. The government will have to do it or god himself or maybe some private company who knows... But It will happen eventually I think.. I hope it does... Cause I have some friends who deal with this and you know not everyone gets it cause there a slut there is many reasons but Im not going to get into that lets just say I pray for everyone with it cause I dont think anyone deserves it!
    If there was a cure ( Not cute ) then they wouldnt ( NOT WOULD )

    Sorry there goes my brain and fingers again LOL...


  7. #7
    SLS
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    Josh's example was just pointing out that markets are driven by profit. Another example would be if Tylenol had a safe cheap pill that prevented all headaches for life when taken once. Would they market it? No way! Or a disposable battery that dosn't die for five years. I'd like to hope that medical research dosn't follow that line of thinking even if medical companies do.


  8. #8
    desslock
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    If it were profitable to make any vaccine, than companies would try to find one.

    Would you create a new membership adult website with exciting original content, but you were limited to only one membership option: $4.95 trials ?

    Another problem with vaccines: The major purchaser is the government. That is different from drugs like Lunesta or Wellbutrin which are bought by everybody individually.

    You get things like the "Anthrax Vaccine" which the US government has payed millions for, and after 9/11 when they vaccinated people with it, most of them became sick....with anthrax. And they don't even think it's effective.

    When governments are the main buyer, you are going to get crappy products. That's why innovation of regular drugs is much more efficient.

    Basically it's not "capitalism".... but rather the entire system for vaccine sales and distribution is upside down.

    Steve


  9. #9
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS
    Josh's example was just pointing out that markets are driven by profit. Another example would be if Tylenol had a safe cheap pill that prevented all headaches for life when taken once. Would they market it? No way! Or a disposable battery that dosn't die for five years. I'd like to hope that medical research dosn't follow that line of thinking even if medical companies do.
    Well I know but the metaphor was sillly... I didnt get it is all... No offense it was just bad example and you dont compare porn against people with HIV it is touchy subject but that is just my opinion no offense but I have people that I know with HIV and they wouldnt appreciate it.. So I was just wondering but anyways it is all good.. It just kinda bothered me is all...

    Not trying to be rude.. thats just my opinion


  10. #10
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS
    Josh's example was just pointing out that markets are driven by profit. Another example would be if Tylenol had a safe cheap pill that prevented all headaches for life when taken once. Would they market it? No way! Or a disposable battery that dosn't die for five years. I'd like to hope that medical research dosn't follow that line of thinking even if medical companies do.
    Also .......... I got his point SLS .... and of course markets are drive by profit that is given and thats why there is markets and business ... I dont really need an example as I completly understand ...... thanks for the explaining to me though..............

    Sorry I dont wanna come off rude it is just something that I feel really strongly about .. is all .. so I didnt mean to come off rude or bitchy if I did Im sorry I just dunno this is sad conversation and very controversial......

    Much peace and love K.Taylor


  11. #11
    chick with a bass basschick's Avatar
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    the gay community has stood behind companies that support them. wouldn't you go out of your way to get products from the company who supplies the HIV vaccine? i mean, if there was a choice of 3 cold pills, i'd get theirs every time.

    and in the long run (not that companies seem to think that way) the good publicity for that company would be spectacular. they'd be the ONLY such company that people think well of.


  12. #12
    KellyTaylor
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by basschick
    the gay community has stood behind companies that support them. wouldn't you go out of your way to get products from the company who supplies the HIV vaccine? i mean, if there was a choice of 3 cold pills, i'd get theirs every time.

    and in the long run (not that companies seem to think that way) the good publicity for that company would be spectacular. they'd be the ONLY such company that people think well of.
    I completly agree but I dont think that companies look at it that way and I also dont think that they wanna take the risk even though spending the money and researching the vaccine would be a value to them like you said!

    I also think if a company truly wanted to find a cure and publically came out and said we are doing research and we are really honestly trying to find a cure and updated people on the kinda progress they where having.. I also think it would be a value to them in the process of developing the vaccine Because people would want to support the products they make and buy there stuff ( to help fund the and support there efforts ) and I think it would show favor in the market... towards there advantage of course...

    as well as...
    ( It would be good advertising for the name of there company)
    ( and for a company like Merck who has time and time again not been so ethical.. it would be really good for them in the long run!! )


  13. #13
    chick with a bass basschick's Avatar
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    and btw, no one said the vaccine would be cheap...


  14. #14
    KellyTaylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLS
    I'd like to hope that medical research dosn't follow that line of thinking even if medical companies do.
    Well Im beginning to think that is the case..

    But who Knows I could be wrong...

    It seems like that is the case in anything really...

    Alot of companys have things they have the technology to build this or that.. but always put something out that is alittle less technologically advanced to make more money off the the technology they will release later ....

    Thats the way alot of business runs I think?? ButThat is kinda where the line should be drawn ...I THINK THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
    Porno, Technology, Cars etc...
    Then saving someones life and if people are playing with peoples lives when they know they have the means to stop pain and suffering that is cruel and I think it alot different then most everything else..... Medicine isnt the same as Sony Corp,. or Microsoft


  15. #15
    CorbinFisher.com CorbinFisher_BD's Avatar
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    The entire vaccine-producing system is pretty screwed. It's what happens when you centralize the process. All vaccine-development funding comes, really, from two sources - the government, and pharmaceutical companies. And both those entities are in bed with one another.

    This is a very telling quote:

    The International AIDS Vaccines Initiative, a not-for-profit group that is pushing for an AIDS vaccine, said there are more than 30 vaccine candidates being tested mostly on a small scale in 19 counties, but it acknowledges many are pursuing a similar theory of science that may prove futile.

    "If the hypothesis is proven incorrect, the pipeline of candidates now in trials will be rendered mostly irrelevant. Strong alternative hypotheses have been largely neglected," the group said.
    What incentive is there to pursue an alternative hypothesis? None. The pharmaceuticals won't fund alternative hypotheses, and government bodies that hand out grants and research funds decide upon a single hypothesis they think is most valid and only support those.

    So we have all our eggs in one basket, and if there's no promise in it, everyone's left hanging.

    The best hope for an HIV vaccine lies with individual, original-thinking scientists working on their own, in their own laboratories, pursuing avenues through their own genius and knowledge and not from pressure from their funding sources. Even university laboratories are in the pockets of government and pharmaceuticals. Because, again, those 2 sources are the only places any funding comes from. The system that exists with regards to science and research doesn't allow for those individual, unorthodox scientists to be heard, though. And it certainly doesn't allow for them to be funded or published or carry their experiments through to conclusion.

    There is no more independent scientific community. And it's a helluva lot easier for researchers to take the easy road and tow the line with guaranteed funding than think outside the box, be original, be unorthodox, and pursue alternative hypotheses when their funding gets yanked out from underneath them if they even try any of that.

    CorbinFisher's Amateur College Men


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