Internext as a business show; my thoughts

[desslock]

Well I just returned to Austin. I can say that for me I can count some quick introductions and quick conversations, and I met a few new people.... but that was about it. I can justify the trip much more as a pricey vacation than a business trip, and here are some reasons why:

I spoke with a number of webmaster friends who expressed exasperation in the very high costs involved with arguable value. One friend of mine has a website that he would love for webmasters to promote, but he really had a difficult time meeting any potential affiliates.

I can say for myself I met very few people who promote websites... and the hordes of people around seemed to be very tangential to our industry... either they were around because there were at CES, or they were a friend of a much larger group of people .... did anyone else experience this?

And as far as a place to forge business relationships, this show was terrible. The parties were absolutely mobbed.... so speaking with someone usually lasted about 2 minutes before five other people have walked up to say hello. Another thing about this show --- I would see people at one event... AND NEVER EVER AGAIN.

I could give numerous examples of business relationships I have which i would have enjoyed spending some time with, but no one had booths. I would just "find myself" next to someone at the tail end of a long party... and that typically was the best opportunity Internext gave me for some work.

And what to do with your time in the day? The daytime activity was over at AEE.... where there were many booths, mostly tensely staffed by loopy models and business owners who from my perspective really disliked having to be assembled in the same hall together.

And many of those studios don't even have affilate programs.... As a good example of how inconvenient this was as a forum to do business: you had Helix Studios over at AEE who actually are promoting an affiliate prgram for webmasters. Then over at Internext out of the tiny handful of gay exhibitors, there was EON Studios which has no affiliate program at all.

Someone tell me - what is the webmaster show here?

I also urged a friend of mine down in Laredo to come to the show at the last minute. Because I've learned the ropes to attending shows, he was fortunate that I was right there to give him specific instructions on what to do, and what lines to get in (anyone try explaining a "SuperPass" to the uninitiated?) ... I cannot imagine what just a new business owner who learned of the show and decided to attend solo would have gone through.

After Sergio registered, I opened the itenerary to point out the seminars to him, and circle ones I thought would be especially useful for him. Well... I looked first for "sessions for the newbie" like I remembered attending.... there were none at all. Then since I knew he'd need to learn how to take credit cards... so I recommended that he visit the ccBill booth to learn about billing solutions. No luck there either.

I could also go into how I dropped 200 bucks for Hustlaball VIP tickets.... mostly because my roommate had heard all about it and wanted to go. Here again... nothing personal to the guys who put it on.... but the show was a big dissapointment. For me the show started by waiting for thirty minutes in the VIP bar waiting to buy a nine dollar drink. That jerk bartender guy passed me over three times. Things just declined from there. Shall I express exasperation over people offering me free passes after the show started? By that time overpaying and repaying was pretty much the custom of the week. One AEE vendor generously offered me a superpass to the show, but after wating in three lines at registration I paid for mine... and as well as Pickles's pass that ChadKnowsLaw had very kindly offered me from his message board contest. (last year I won a pass on GWW for Internext... remember that registration line? And they had no clue about it either) I really suggest that any individuals offering Internext passes at future shows think hard about it... we never get them, but AVN does get their money.

Over on plebian side of the Hustlaball, I listened to several conversations of CES people asking "where all the porn stars where"....oh they were at some other Channel 1 party that I hadn't heard about. Ugh... you can only try so hard. You have to ask yourself... "why am I doing all this?" and I thought I was smart for just walking on by those blackjack tables at the Venetian with $100 minimums.

Steve

[Lee]

You know what Steve, i completely agree with you.

The only business we actually got out of the show (at this moment in time) was from the 20 or so meetings we setup prior to getting to Vegas and a couple of smaller deals we managed to work out during the GWB events but, they probably wont come in to fruition for a few months yet.

Even the dealers at the blackjack tables i was sat at for most of the day at the TI said they thought that Vegas was less crowded this year than years past, not just on the 'porn' front but, also from the CES side of things.

You also touched on a couple of things i heard a lot of people talking about at both the GreenDoor party and the last nights GWB events, there seemed to be an awfull lack of actual 'organization' so far as keeping the 'surfer' and the 'webmaster' side of things seperate, im glad we actually stayed away from the show floor this year, from what i have been told, it was full of surfers and talent at one point, not something that i, as a webmaster, particularly want to have to deal with.

There were also a LOT of 'non industry' types at the parties this year, i dont know but, if our sponsors are spending close to $20k on 3 nightly parties, i dont want them to have to talk business in front of surfers the first night of the GWB we had to call security to the suite because there were talent and fans (read as surfers) in the room who wouldnt leave and, from what im told, this was the case at most of the other parties, more talent and fans than actual 'webmasters' however, from what i understand, the event organizers didnt mind because it made their parties look fuller than they actually were, whether that was the case or not i dont know. What i do know however, is that, if im organizing an event for our sponsors who are specifically trying to target adult webmasters, im going to do my damndest to make sure we have more webmasters in the place than models or surfers LOL

As i say, for us, we did get a lot of business done, both in adult and mainstream but, not because of the show itself, because we arranged meetings with companies prior to getting in to Vegas and we'll be doing the same thing next time around, if we attend at all.

Its going to be interesting to see how AVN address some of the issues with the mixed crowd at the show next year and, its going to be even more interesting to see how much of a knock-on effect this Vegas show will have on the Florida show in August.

Good seeing you by the way, i dont think ive ever seen you drool over a producer like you did Alexander that last night at the GWB events, you could tell you were a huge fan of his work thats for sure

Regards,

Lee

[Lee]

Oh and one other thing that i did notice a lot more this time around was that some webmasters were more to blame than others for the excess of surfers being at the various webmaster events.

I even had one guy ask me if he could bring several women he met on the casino floor up to our GWB suite for drinks one night because he wanted to show them 'how pimp' he was.

I just laughed at him and walked away LOL

Regards,

Lee

[desslock]

Lee

Let me thank you again for the party on Saturday night. I enjoyed myself.

And meeting Alexander was a perfect example of my experience with the show. I met him on pure chance at the tail end of the last night of the show. I always make it a point to promote Brazilian movies on friskyfans.... not because they are very lucrative.... but because they are so hot.

And seeing him was even more thrilling because I had only just discovered and written up some reviews of his Brazilian Cum Ons series the week before I left. For me.... a lot of porn is pretty much your general porn. But some movies that I get are inspired, in one way or another. Alexander is a good example of a producer with great talent. I don't think Americans are very good are marketing Brazilian movies though in general... it's a difficult genre.

I also had heard rumors that Raging Stallion Studios executives were present somewhere.... and I've been doing business with them since I first started. That would have been really cool to meet them too.... but I only had the briefest of contact with Brian Randall early on in the show, and I had no idea to ask him at that point. I still don't get it.... for business with AEE participants you had to troll the packed convention hall. AEE had no social events. However, for Internext there was an empty convention hall and jam packed evening social events.

Put together it was very inefficient.

Steve

[haganxy]

i understand how it seems that a lot of these shows seem more like a huge party than business....HOWEVER, i find the shows are good for my business connections.

although you might not talk about actual business deals, i think meeting people in person and getting to know them will lead you to more opportunities and further communications down the road.

meeting with Mike @ Webair at the Phoenix Forum a couple of years back for a cocktail and finding out he's a nice guy...led me to move my hosting over to them a couple of years later after my hosting company was closing down. then me being a picky-asshole customer at Webair got me a job offer from Mike at Webair, who figured if i knew more than some of the tech guys did, i would probably do a better job.

dinner with the WTS guys eventually led to a relationship where i got my current company to process with them, and led to another job offer from them after they liked my technical communication skills.

and finally, my current position at PrideBucks was a result of me meeting the PrideBucks guys at Internext a couple of years back and finding out that they are a cool group of people....and accepting a job offer a few years later.

the moral of the story: although you might not talk about actual business topics at Internext, you meet people, develop relationships, and from there a wide variety of opportunities will come.

[Lee]

Lee

Let me thank you again for the party on Saturday night. I enjoyed myself.

No need to thank me Steve, we just organized it, it was the sponsors who threw the event

Regards,

Lee

[IntenseCash.com]

I think it was the worst Vegas Internext ever. It was very unorganized every person I talked to ended up trying to get their badge at the AVN registration because the Internext registration was so hard to find. Then you had to go upstairs to the small sign that said Internext down the long narrow hall. The Internext floor was nothing like it used to be and there was nobody around. What is usually very crowded and would take a long time to go through took me a couple hours. I definitely did not like the two shows running at the same time. Next year the Vegas Internext show is in March and then the Phoenix Forum is also in March. It was also hard because people were split up at so many different parties. From my last Vegas experience if I had to choose I would go to the Phoenix Forum. Just my 2 cents.

Mark

[gaybucks_chip]

I have to agree with the general sentiment here.

In spite of AVN's claim that 80% of attendees were in favor of having AEE and Internext at the same time, AJ and I thought it was a disaster.

All the parties we went to had a ton of models who were, as is typical, drunk, taking up space, and totally useless. It was amazing to me that a lot of the models who presumably were brought to promote their sponsors programs didn't even have shirts or anything else to identify who they were with... a sad loss of branding opportunity in my book.

The drama sucked. I really dislike the growing chasm between this group, that group, and the other group.

Because so many non-industry people (models, etc) were around on the floor at the parties, it was nearly impossible to find anyone new (the primary reason we went this time) to talk to about either our traffic program or our sponsor programs.

And we took a look at the lines and the empty Internext floor and decided it wasn't worth $250 per person to go on the show floor, so we didn't even buy tickets.

We did have some productive meetings, and AJ and I felt that we actually had among the most productive time (outside of meetings) at the GWW events, because they were small and uncrowded, without ear-splitting music blaring, and so we actually had both time and ability to hear one another enough to make some great new connections.

I've always thought Phoenix Forum was a better show. As Internext continues to go downhill, I'm not even sure we will attend next year.

[Daymare]

The show sure sounds like a huge waste of time, looks good on AVN. Those slimeballs are trying to jack the webmasters and exhibitors for every nickel they can and we're not gonna take it. They charge extra for everything for the people to exhibit, then they charge a couple HUNDRED dollars just for individual people to see them... it's backfiring on them. They better realize that they're going down a road they may not come back from if they keep screwing around with it... these smaller shows like phoenix forum, etc are gaining in huge popularity and Vegas won't be important at all in a year or 2.

[CorbinFisher_BD]

My views of Internext are mixed, in a sense, and in kind of a funny way.

On the one hand, I'm extremely pleased with all that CorbinFisher.com accomplished at this show and really glad we attended, had a booth, and sponsored a number of parties.

On the other hand, I know that this year's Internext was a small show for which the expenses involved in attending, exhibiting, sponsoring are hard to justify.

Let me explain... CorbinFisher.com is a new site, that has grown at a tremendous pace, and has quickly become one of the most popular gay adult membership sites out there. Yet in the last 2 years, we've never exhibited at any events, never sponsored anything, and never gotten to meet anyone face to face. I'm the only person any one knows as being with CorbinFisher, and I've only been there two months. So we wanted to get out there and really throw the name in peoples faces, as well as show a real presence. I also figured that (what was sure to be) a smaller show would be an opportunity for us to really stand out.

And so we exhibited. And sponsored 3 parties. And had a booth. And brought models. And brought every employee of the company. And attended all of the parties, web awards (at which our guys handed out trophies) and had a bunch of people at the booth every day.

Beyond the (well above average) dozens of new affiliates we've acquired in the last week, I wanted people to have a face to put with the name when they think of CorbinFisher, know that we're a force to be reckoned with, a site that is approachable and involved, and so forth. I personally know tons of people in the industry as Brian. But now I'm refashioning all those relationships as Brian From CorbinFisher.

As far as all that went, I'm very happy. And I think we were extremely successful.

Were it not for those points I just mentioned, though, and the unique circumstances that made us want to go all out at this show, I would have otherwise considered having a booth at this year's show a total waste of time and money.

Hardly anyone can justify the expense of walking the show floor and attending, and the only ones who can justify that expense and effort are attendees who go from booth to booth trying to sell their own product. In other words, as an exhibitor, you stand there and man your booth and 80% of the foot traffic that comes up to you are other people trying to sell you their shit, rather than people interested in your own product. For every 2 webmasters with traffic coming up to express interest in our affiliate program, there were 8 people hawking their mobile cell phone content distributor or trying to get us to switch to their unknown processing company or trying to sell us some wierd upsell feature they have or whatever.

Well, quite franky, we didn't spend the thousands of dollars that go in to getting a booth, staffing the booth, decorating the booth, furnishing the booth, etc etc etc in order to have random people come try and sell us stuff. We did it so that we could sell random people our stuff! . Why spend thousands on a booth when you can be one of the many who spend a couple hundred to go from booth to booth selling theirs?

Again, I'm still pleased with how the show went because all we wanted to do was exhibit in the first place and let it be known that we're here, involved in the market and industry, and so forth. We've never exhibited or attended a show in force, yet are an extremely well known site, so simply wanted to be present in force to solidify relationships and awareness.

But under any other circumstances (including next year), I'd not exhibit at Internext. It would not be a justifiable expense, I feel.

[Dzinerbear]

Like others, I felt the gay side of the show was fragmented. It didn't feel like there was a home base. Our community has been divided by drama over the past year and I definitely felt it at this show.

I think, by moving the show to the beginning of March, AVN will be shooting themselves in the head. I can't see the point of going to a quasi-okay show and great show all in the same month. What will have changed between the beginning and the end of March that I'll have to see everyone again? I'll probably just choose the Phoenix Forum and leave it at that.

COULD SOMEONE AT AVN PLEASE LEARN HOW TO PUT UP SIGNS FOR THE REGISTRATIONS AREA?

COULD SOMEONE AT AVN PLEASE TAKE A BRANDING 101 COURSE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR ATTENDEES TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE GOING?

Was it AVN, AVN Online, AVN Video, Internext? Stood in the wrong line initially to register for Internext. And then after I did the lube and dildo floor, I left. I had no idea there was another floor upstairs. I didn't every find the seminars. What a mess. The AVN gang should attend the Phoenix Forum and learn how to do it: pick a nice-sized hotel with a central courtyard - everything happens there (and if it isn't happening there, you meet your friends there, or you'll meet someone who knows where the pool party is) it's easy as pie.

desslock, excellent review and assessment, I couldn't agree more.

Michael

[Jasun]

I gotta say that this is the first show where I went there TOTALLY prepared... I had set up a bunch of meetings and I had brought tons of product to hand out andI had scheduled my time extremely well.

I had planned which parties we'd go to and networked on the phone for weeks before-hand to make sure that I was going to the parties where the people I wanted to network with would be.

But at the end, I spent most of my time fighting off nerds from the CES show and explaining that I didn't come to the show to get laid and that I was trying to do some business. I got tired of having the wedding singers and non-industry people who lived in Vegas trying to monopolize my time, and I got bummed that I had to wade through tons of party crashers at a few of the parties just to try to talk to a few industry people.

I got bugged that when I woke up in the morning, I didn't really know where to go to be "where it's at". There's no central place to go and just meet up socailly with a few people from the industry.. people were staying all over the place and the people who WERE staying at the Venetian were so spread out over the five square miles of the hotel that I could only randomly meet up with them.

I got plenty of business done, and I did actually make a few random contacts that have already turned into something, but in the end, I could have done the bulk of that by sitting at my desk and spinning my rolodex.

My favorite party was the GWB closing party.. there were no crashers form CES, there were no people who lived in Vegas and just went to the cool parties, and there were no models who were hired to have sex to entertain the friends of the people throwing the party.. yes, there was sex for entertainment, but it was just the people who were there who just wanted to be freaky.

Desslock, I'm glad you and I got a chance to party together as much as we did... you're even funnier in real life than you are here, and since we make such a great gruesome twosome on GWW, we were slaying them at the parties... but like you said.. it's all just vacation stuff.

I'm probably - as anyone who's seen me on action will attest - one of the better networkers and contact makers out there... and I still felt like I could only get so much done. In the end, John and I talked about how muich moeny we'd spent as opposed to how much we potentially made, and unless some HUGE stuff comes from the meetings we had, Vegas will most likely be off our list next year.

Pity.

[allboysvideo]

Every year my partner and I always plan on going to Vegas. As you may know or not now we are in both worlds...we are gay owed and operated video production company producing DVD's for retail and we also have a few websites we run and maintain. A company like ours is caught in the middle of the two worlds...the webmaster world and the video production world.

With that being said, we always wanted to go but when speaking to people who attend year after year from both the webmaster world and the video production world they all advise us to stay home and save our money. This year I priced it out and it would have cost us to fly to Vegas from South Florida roundtrip and stay in the hotels and purchase the tickets just to attend for both of us would have cost us over $3500.00 for just a few days. Based on the information we heard from many, they tell us its not worth it. I'm sorry to hear that many of you didn't like the Show this year and it seem to be more of a dissappointment and it proves to me that its still not worth spending the money and the time just to attend to try to conduct business. Our other thought was to go in "style" and spend the money on a booth and bring our models...but then I read the post by Corbin Fisher regarding the people coming up to your booth trying to sell you shit and push there services and products and again, it does not sound as if its cost effective for all the money you have spend.

We normally attend the August show in Hollywood (internext) and we get to network and meet many people. Since the August show is in Hollywood, it cost us next to nothing to attend since its down the street from us. This year we will be attending for the first time The Phoenix Forum and looking forward to that trip in March/April. I hope its a great function to attend since many that I have spoken to highly recommend this Forum.

My problem with all these gatherings is, why can't we have (gay webmasters & gay video producers) just have one convention. Why do we have to be bunched together with the str8 webmasters/companies and other studios...can't gay business men and women who run and operate gay owned video production studios and websites just have an exclusive gay only convention without the str8 studios and websmasters? A gay convention with gay only parties, gay meetings that pertain to our style of business, gay business men and women networking with other gay business men and women....just my thought!

-David
D&E Productions
www.allboysvideo.com
www.dandevideos.com
www.dandevideo.com

[chadknowslaw]

The pass for the show floor was a huge waste of money. I did attend some of the seminars, but if I could start over I would have gone to Vegas but not purchased the pass.

[citiboyz]

We exhibited at AEE 2 years ago, and that went well because we were part of the Paladin exhibit and weren't responsible for anything but showing up and looking good. Last year we skipped the trip to Las Vegas entirely, but this year we decided to go for the fun of it, rather than with expectations of doing business. That way we didn't feel disappointed. But I do feel bad for the exhibitors at both shows who spent money for little return. We bought fan tickets for the AEE show on Friday, and wow... what a disappointment that was. The "gay ghetto" was dead, dead, dead... at least the guys had each other to talk to. I wanted some autographs from the 1 Distribution models and was refused unless I signed up for their email spam list. I was like "huh??".

Like David & Eddie, being part-production and part-webmaster, it would make more sense for us to attend a combined gay internet/video convention for the industry. With AEE and InterNext separated next year, I don't think we'd be interested in doing either one. Maybe GayVN or someone should consider it, because the way it's working right now is dysfunctional to the gay segment of the industry.