What Do You Expect From An Industry Publication?

[XXXWriterDude]

So, we are looking at revamping AVN Online magazine to make it more fresh and inspired and to speak even more specifically to the webmaster community that we write about. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but over the course of the last several issues, there have been subtle changes that we've been making to make the magazine more exciting and relevant.

During today's meeting on ways in which we could do this, there was a lot of talk about what we thought the readers/subscribers/advertisers wanted, and there was a lot of speculation in that. A lot of "I think this" and "I think that" rhetoric based on some things folks have said to us at shows, etc. But it occurred to me... why not go straight to the source and ask them point blank instead of speculating on how they view us?

So, with that in mind, I'd like to ask you guys/gals/Buck Angels (wink wink), just what it is that you look for in an industry publication? What kinds of articles do/would you like to see? When it comes to magazines that are chiefly advertorially driven, what balance between stories dedicated to advertisers and editorially-driven think pieces do you think works best?

With recent issues in mind, how do you think AVN Online is or isn't serving your needs? Are there any sections that you absolutely love? Any that you dislike? Is Online a magazine that you would consider advertising in? Why, or why not? Hell, do you even read AVN Online? Again, why or why not?

I know that, traditionally, the magazine has been skewed more toward straight companies. I've been attempting to change that by pitching stories that specifically address gay webmasters and the particular issues facing them. Apart from that issue, however, what do you think that AVN Online should be doing better or at all? Please be as detailed and specific as you can, and feel free to be as candid and frank as you like. As a trade publication, the magazine is, of course, written for the webmaster community, so your opinions are very important to us.

Thanx for your time, and many regards.

Ken

[Squirt]

To be as little like AVN as possible.

AVN is to openly slanted towards paying advertisers, and/or the "good old boys".

AVN has far too much advertising on all pages and reads more like a junk mail flyer because of it.

AVN is far less proactive then mainstream news/industry publications I read.

Often times you'll read a posting on a board, or a news site, then it hits AVN later.

Because of the barage of advertising, and paid promotional stories, AVN has problems being taken seriously by most established online adult businesses.

Just my .00002cents worth

[XXXWriterDude]

has far too much advertising on all pages and reads more like a junk mail flyer because of it.

Well, honestly, there's not much we can do about the advertising. That's just the nature of a trade pub. Like the Wall Street Journal or Variety or Billboard or any other trade publication, it is chiefly supported by advertising.

Apart from the preponderence of ads, what are your thoughts?

[Squirt]

Well, honestly, there's not much we can do about the advertising. That's just the nature of a trade pub. Like the Wall Street Journal or Variety or Billboard or any other trade publication, it is chiefly supported by advertising.

Apart from the preponderence of ads, what are your thoughts?

Apart from the inundation of ads I'd say the following:

AVN is far less proactive then mainstream news/industry publications I read.

Often times you'll read a posting on a board, or a news site, then it hits AVN later.

AVN is to openly slanted towards paying advertisers, and/or the "good old boys".

That's all I have to say. Just trying to help out and being honest. Notice how everyone else is earily silent :noddy:

[XXXWriterDude]

Good points, Squirt. Thank you. We actually do break several stories before they show up anywhere else. If you follow our site, we try to keep it pretty topical. And, while all magazines want to be the first to the plate, sometimes it's more important to have quality stories that address a topic in-depth instead of just getting it up to get it up as quickly as possible.

We have been opening up our editorial content to get more and more of the little guys (the ones who don't advertise) onboard as well. I've done several pieces on people here who don't advertise, you included, Squirt. Haha Remember that big piece I did on your site SleepingMen?

Your thoughts are much appreciated, though. I thank you for your frankness.

I've noticed that site activity typically slows down around 5, 6, 7pm, so hopefully others will feel free to chime in as they come across this thread. If no one ever says anything, then how can you expect things to change? Don't worry about me being defensive. I didn't create AVN Online, so I'm not going to take any of it personally. Again, the mag is here to serve you.

[Squirt]

Good points, Squirt. Thank you. We actually do break several stories before they show up anywhere else. If you follow our site, we try to keep it pretty topical. And, while all magazines want to be the first to the plate, sometimes it's more important to have quality stories that address a topic in-depth instead of just getting it up to get it up as quickly as possible.

We have been opening up our editorial content to get more and more of the little guys (the ones who don't advertise) onboard as well. I've done several pieces on people here who don't advertise, you included, Squirt. Haha Remember that big piece I did on your site SleepingMen?

Your thoughts are much appreciated, though. I thank you for your frankness.

I've noticed that site activity typically slows down around 5, 6, 7pm, so hopefully others will feel free to chime in as they come across this thread. If no one ever says anything, then how can you expect things to change? Don't worry about me being defensive. I didn't create AVN Online, so I'm not going to take any of it personally. Again, the mag is here to serve you.

Yeah no worries I'm just trying to be honest and help you out.

The things your are doing right include having reps like you online, on the boards, with your feelers out knowing what's happening. It is good that you do stories on non paying advertisers, like a newspaper would. it's important for our community to know as much as possible about what's going on out there to be more informed means we can do better in our business.

I think the more you relate most in the porn business to hackers, the more successful you'll be. We are smart, on the fringe, do what we want and know when someones trying to influence us. GFY had qualities, in the beginning, that appealed to us, and made that site successful, now it's a trash bin :kelly:

[basschick]

earily silent :noddy: - i like that

you know what i don't understand? i make more money with less advertising rather than more. that's true of a lot of sites that target their ads. so i don't understand why avn and other mags don't target more - instead of running general ads like a tv station.

that way, your ads would be worth more because they would only show on articles and pages that are highly relevant. which means you would need less of them, and if you can't fit everyone, that could create more buzz about avn.

also why not text ads? most webmasters make much more money and send a lot more traffic using text ads, but most adult industry resource sites send hits with banners - especially funny on some resource sites where there are threads about how much more effective text ads are that have banners in the header and footer i'd rather read a truthful mini article in a table marked "advertisement" that tells me what the program advertising really has to offer.

everyone else is earily silent :noddy:

[Squirt]

Well, honestly, there's not much we can do about the advertising.

There is actually a lot you can do about the presentation and placement of your advertising to be more effective, and pleasing to the eye of the reader.

To use your examples, if you check out the sites of Wall Street Journal, Variety or Billboard, you'll see very effective advertising strategies that are pleasing to the eye and give a sense of professionalism and saavy.

[XXXWriterDude]

There is actually a lot you can do about the presentation and placement of your advertising to be more effective, and pleasing to the eye of the reader.

To use your examples, if you check out the sites of Wall Street Journal, Variety or Billboard, you'll see very effective advertising strategies that are pleasing to the eye and give a sense of professionalism and saavy.

Yeah, I do agree with you on this. I will definitely take this to my editors along with your other comments and see what the consensus is. Thanx again. I'll have to bring a few issues of Variety in to demonstrate the point.

[Lee]

AVN is to openly slanted towards paying advertisers, and/or the "good old boys".

Agreed.

If you dont fit in certain 'cliques' you dont get mentioned.

I could name a hundred or so companies that DESERVE to be written up on both AVN/GayVN that havent had any mention other than a small paragraph in a news piece or article or out-of-date press release.

Also, i find that the stuff that is written about in AVN especially, isnt geared towards those in the industry that it needs to be geared towards specifically, the newer webmasters. I havent seen any mention in recent mags about the new traffic sources that have appeared in the last 12 months and, how they can be profitably marketed i havent seen anything other than the usual PPV / VOD companies being asked about content, to name two things that really do need addressing other than 2257.

Whilst articles about companies forming market panels, discussion panels and other 'cliques' definately should have a place in the magazines, they shouldnt be featured in such a way that the newer webmasters are left out of the loop. Quite frankly, i doubt i could name 5 people on GWW who would even care about mobile solutions that they would actually be able to implement on their sites for example.

AVN, imho, lost touch with the 'real' adult industry long ago and, despite them being told that for many years, it is only just now, while they are realizing what they have been told previously is true they are starting to listen because, it is effecting their profit margins. Unfortunately, those same 'cliques' i mentioned above, seem to be the ones that feed you with much of the BS you reprint and, they only feed you the information to advance their own agendas.

A good example is the recent story on age verification, i havent read it yet but, i guarantee you are going to have quotes in the piece from Joan / ASACP and one or more of the FSC attorneys in addition to Larry Walters, am i wrong? That is just how predictable AVN has become and you dont make a profit by being predictable $0.02

Another thing Squirt mentioned is also true, you seem to have press releases mentioned in your magazine that quite frankly, are sometimes 3-6 months old and, whilst i understand you do have production deadlines to meet, there should be a more realistic time-frame in getting the PR's that matter, printed in the magazine so that they arent ancient news when subscribers receive their copy of the mag.

I really dont care if a video company has launched a new movie, i really dont care that some guy has added 50 free hosted galleries to their revshare or pss program, i really dont care that someone won an award. Non of that really matters to me in the least, instead, what company is offering discounts on content? Hosting? Traffic buys? That is stuff that matters to everyone in the industry.

Also one thing that actually pisses me off, when you send the mags out, send them out in plain cover, this may have changed given the recent issues that were bought up on GFY so this may well be a moot point but non-the-less it is a point that should be addressed if it hasnt already been.

In addition, make sure the people you ask for quotes in your articles actually have a voice outside of their own little groups in the industry, if i hear one more time that straight webmasters cant sell gay sites i swear im going to slit my wrists with a rusty spoon.

These are the things that companies who 'think' they have a voice in the industry 'think' they know when in reality, i doubt they could even put together a simple hand coded HTML page, quotes from marketing people, company reps, etc really arent worth the paper they are written on, they arent on the 'front line' of the industry, they are sat in their comfy chairs, in their air-conditioned offices, whilst their peons do all the actual 'work' for them.

If you truly want to become an industry magazine, speak to the people that actually matter, the webmasters, yes, the guy that makes thousands of dollars a month but also, the guy (or gal) that works 5 hours a week from their bedroom whilst still living at home with their parents, afterall, they are the future of the industry and, lets not forget, that is how many of the top companies we have in the industry today started out.

I could go on with many more points of improvement however, as has so often been the case in the past, you'll forgive me for not doing so, they might only end up falling on deaf ears, yet again.

Just my $0.02 on how you guys can address the industry more in your two mags hope i wasnt to harsh

Regards,

Lee

[XXXWriterDude]

AVN, imho, lost touch with the 'real' adult industry long ago and, despite them being told that for many years, it is only just now, while they are realizing what they have been told previously is true they are starting to listen because, it is effecting their profit margins. Unfortunately, those same 'cliques' i mentioned above, seem to be the ones that feed you with much of the BS you reprint and, they only feed you the information to advance their own agendas. Lee

Come on, Lee, tell us how you really feel! LOL!

Thanx for your candid words. Just what I was looking for. Much appreciated.

For the record, though, AVN is doing quite well. We're simply looking at ways to revamp the Online magazine as the Internet porn industry keeps changing so quickly. The sky isn't falling around here just yet...

Thanx for your concern, though. <wink wink>

Anyone else care to offer their thoughts? Beuhler? Beuhler?

[basschick]

i've been thinking about this thread.

a problem for me with avn and xbiz is they're really trying to focus on and cover 2 industries that often intersect. web stuff is a lot about marketing where a lot of the news from adult video makers is about making the videos, the stars, the directors.

and although there are a lot of webmasters who create their own content and market their own videos, they're not vivid and no one hears much about them.

i don't think the average webmasters have that much to do in business with the porn stars, porn directors - the mainstream porn dvd business at all. they read it like gossip or celeb news, but it makes avn and xbiz a lot less an industry publication for our industry.

as far as i know, we don't actually have an industry publication devoted to porn as it is marketed on the internet with articles about choosing a designer, what the latest paysite trends are, stuff like that. i DO see those topics come up sometimes, but often written by people who are not writers and are very rarely wriiten by what i'd consider experts. i mean, sure, we're all experts, but these are more editorials in that a lot of what's there is one person's opinion.

it would rock if there were either a publication for adult webmasters without having important or cover stories about all the big name dvd company business or else if a magazine came out with an entire section devoted to this part of the industry.

[XXXWriterDude]

it would rock if there were either a publication for adult webmasters without having important or cover stories about all the big name dvd company business or else if a magazine came out with an entire section devoted to this part of the industry.

Hmmm, I see your point, Patti, but a magazine that is devoted to covering Internet porn would be remiss if it left out the video production studios (like Falcon and especially Channel 1 Releasing) that are also creating original, Internet-only content. Both AVN Online and xBiz are magazines dedicated to Internet porn, and to discriminate against ANY company producing Internet porn would be a grave mistake on our part.

There are several people on this very board (Pierre Fitch, Citiboyz's Steve Shay, Titan's Keith Webb, etc. etc.) who would most likely feel rather slighted if that were the case. We have to be an equal-opportunity publication. Otherwise, we'd be accused of skewing the mag to the point of view of only one type of webmaster. Don't you think?

[tombarr]

My thoughts.

AVN, in general, has got to stop treating the Gay market as the unwanted step child. While it is not completely absent of gay stories, or ads, the whole AVN structure, online, print, and conventions is HEAVILY structured to stroke those in the straight community and the gay community is relegated to the back corners of the sites, the pubs, and the halls. while I understand the gay community is a smaller percentage of the whole, it is painfully apparant by the placement of anything gay in the entire structure of your publications, that it is relegated to the "back of the bus" at every opportunity in an effort to "include" them but almost in an afterthought methodology. The straight community wants to profit from gay dollars, they want to start gay sites and try to sell to us, but they seem to be happy not to talk about it, or give it equal footing when it comes to editorials, commentary, advertising, publication placement, or community function.

It is hard to take seriously a publication that always seems to dip into the same "sources", notably their premium advertisers, when writing articles or "how to" pieces, or "how did they do it" pieces, or "future of the industry" pieces. There are a LOT of innovators out there, a LOT of trench fighters out there, and a LOT of small operators who are vast resources of knowledge on the adult industry. AVN should attempt to find them out, talk to them, get a different perspective, and print that perspective without
seeking out the normal players for validation. Sure something said by "Falcon" or by "Channel 1" or other large "players" will be name recognized by more in the industry, but isn't the strength of the article supposed to be about the meat of the article, not just because "someone important" said it?
A lot of the big players, at least in internet terms, are big players because of luck and timing, not because they honestly knew what they were doing when they started. I gurantee there are small unknowns out there now,
that have an "in the trenches" command of what it takes to succeed, and where the industry is going and what it needs to do to get there, than a lot of the fluff commentary sources you currently use. THEY deserve the press coverage for the day to day struggles and battles they overcome, not only as a small startup, but as a company competing against those who got started before in a stroke of luck and timing, who in my opinion deserve to be successful more than some who simply seem to have fallen into success. I would much rather see these guys "quoted", expose's done on their operations, and use them as authors of "how to's" rather than those who slant the "how to" and "where the industry is going" pieces toward their own coffers. I am not bashing the larger players at all, the industry certainly needs them...but they are not truly representative of the "industry" just representatives of who is paying your advertising revenue, and as a result, your articles lose credibility.

While i certainly understand you have to stroke your advertisers with "fluff" pieces, i think all the AVN publications would be well served to dedicate more space to finding the gems of the interenet, (i see your attempts to do so in the sites you are highlighting recently), however even those read as fluff pieces. I think that we would all be better served by informative honest reporting, investigative type articles, Fact sheets, on companies, and websites, rather than making articles about these companies just a sales pitch platform for the owners of the site. If the site is worth being pitched and worth a look by those in the industry, let the merits of their program, their sites, their offerings, use of technology speak for itself, not self ingratiating quotes from the sites owners. If the expose articles or investigative reporting on sites and features like this were honest, unbiased, and without positive quotes from the owners of the site, I can promise that a lot more innnovation will happen, and a lot more innovation will be discovered.

AVN Online should become the educational resource for the industry. You have the platform, you have the traffic, the name recognition, but you have not developed the resources. And make them free please, not simply another subscription fee to AVN. Support them with ads, fine, but make them open to all to use and learn from...don't do another "industry directory" approach where AVN got all the companies to submit to their new Industry directory, but then now to use it you have to "purchase" it. How lame! All the information was given to you for free, and now we have to Pay as industry contributors of that publication, to use it.

Each issue of AVN Online, should have educational meat beyond just the template how to story that seems to promote the same "players" mentioned above. Sure it would have to be sourced, and sure it would have to be written by an "expert" in the area discussed, but how about more of a Wikipedia approach with a byline, rather than just a basic skeleton article that does not reveal a whole bunch of new information or actual meat that anyone can learn from, quoted by yet another industry veteran with self serving purposes in mind. Archives should be kept, searchable, in a 'pedia type format. The ability to sell advertising on this type of resource should be able to free up some advertising room in your other publications so we can get less clutter and more substance.

Got to run to the bank now, i just spent my last $.02 for the day.

[Paco]

I'd like to see...
1). Advertising removed or relocated to a specific area or page - I do not like seeing advertisements on pages where there are article! I suggest moving ads to a specific page (Trust me, if I am in the 'market' for something, I will visit the ad section.), or losing them and charging a fee, for a subscription! I'd pay for a 100% ad free publication.
I cancelled certain industry pubs because of this. I now tend to read more online (a little too 1984 for me, but what else is one to do) - I use FireFox for this as I can remove ALL ads, headers etc. One of the reasons I love the browser.

2). Cutting edge ideas relating to our industry: (advancements computer and web technologies; marketing; truly off the beaten track websites - not sites that paid to have a writer create a textual ad or 'article' about their not so unique ideas).

3). A version of an industry or market 'watch dog’: spammers & cheaters exposed etc. (Yah like this will ever happen - everyone is worried about liability and lawsuits.) as well the negative changes in our industry.

4). Changes to laws affecting us, dummied down... somewhat. Let the lawyers get all technical, after all that is what they are for and they too (worms or not... but not you Chad) need to eat.

In all honesty, I find most publications (mainstream or not) to be too worried about losing readers because of something offensive etc, and more worried about increasing their profits. Their worth has become less then that of blogs (and we all know where those have gone).
Frank Magazine was one of my last favourite reads, however, since it changed hands they have decided to tread way too lightly and readers have gone to the web.

In all honesty, chances are great I would not accept the publication because odds are too great it will not be any different from the rest: sales and marketing staff will want more money, thusly increasing the amount of litter (ads). The 'opinions' or thoughts of the contributing writers (sorry, but this is my honest opinion) will be edited for content (so what's the point?) and the concentration of the pub will be way too average and will simply end up overlooking the other more important markets (which have been belittled purposely)!

If I am repeating what others have said, there is a reason.